POSITIVE EVIDENCE for WTC7 Controlled Demolition

[1337m4n]

Let's see what you Truthers have got.

The rules are simple:

(1) If you post ONE (1) piece of positive evidence that WTC7 was destroyed by controlled demolition, you automatically win. I'll see if I can think of some sort of prize to give you.

(2) Any use of the argument from incredulity fallacy means you automatically lose. You must repeat "I fail at life" three times before you may try again.

Go.

 

[Gravy]

I think the obvious motive is the best evidence.

The "7" signs on the building were old and needed to be replaced.

 

[Brainache]

I'm betting that the evidence offered will be that there is no evidence. Therefore it is a cover-up.

 

[Gravy]

The second-most likely motive is, of course,

It was the CIA field office's annual "casual filing day."

 

[Pardalis]

One other motive could be that they got a little controlled demolition-happy.

 

[8den]

Here's all the evidence you need;

Larry Silverstein say "pull it".





Well he did.

 

[pomeroo]

The top decision-makers for the Impossibly Vast Conspiracy were in conference, putting the final touches on The Plan. One of them had a question:

"Let me get this straight--seven hours after we blow up the Towers, we blow up a building that nobody's ever heard of. Run this by me one more time: Why are we doing this?"

There is a long pause. Finally, the POTUS himself says:

"Hey, we're wildmen--just f[Rule 8]in' wildmen."

 

[Sizzler]

Don't shoot the messenger

Richard Gage, AIA – Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth

I'm Richard Gage, AIA, a licensed architect of 20 years. I represent Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, a fast-growing body of more than 230 architects and engineers dedicated solely to bringing out the truth about all three high-rise building collapses on 9/11. We believe that we have answers to your questions about the puzzling collapse of World Trade Center 7.


In more than 100 steel-framed, high-rise fires (most of them very hot, very large and very long-lasting), not one has collapsed, ever. So it behooves all of us, as your own former chief of NIST's Fire Science Division, Dr. James Quintiere, said, "to look at real alternatives that might have been the cause of these collapses."

Let's start with temperatures – 1,340° F. temperatures, recorded in thermal images of the surface of the World Trade Center rubble pile a week after 9/11 by NASA's AVIRIS equipment on USGS overflights. Such temperatures cannot be achieved by oxygen-starved hydrocarbon fires. Such fires burn at only 600 to 800° F. Remember, there was no fire on the top of the pile. The source of this incredible heat was therefore below the surface of the rubble, where it must have been far hotter than 1,340 degrees.

Edited by chillzero: 

Edited to comply with Rule 4.

http://www.ae911truth.org/info/24

Does Richard win a prize?

 

[sleahead]

Does Richard win a prize?

Defintely not, I'd say. By the way, Gage has abandoned squibs at WTC7.

 

[Good Lt]

Don't shoot the messenger

Richard Gage, AIA – Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth



http://www.ae911truth.org/info/24

Does Richard win a prize?

So where's the evidence here?

 

[cisco]

Don't shoot the messenger

Richard Gage, AIA – Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth



http://www.ae911truth.org/info/24

Does Richard win a prize?

[Nelson] Ha-hah!

Now you have to repeat "I fail at life" 3 times before posting anymore woo!

 

[Brainache]

In addition, World Trade Center 7's catastrophic structural failure showed every characteristic of explosive, controlled demolition. You can see all these characteristics at our website www.AE911truth.org. The destruction began suddenly at the base of the building. Several first responders reported explosions occurring about a second before the collapse. There was the symmetrical, near-free-fall speed of collapse, through the path of greatest resistance – with 40,000 tons of steel designed to resist this load – straight down into its own footprint. This requires that all the columns have to fail within a fraction of a second of each other – perimeter columns as well as core columns. There was also the appearance of mistimed explosions (squibs?) at the upper seven floors on the network video recordings of the collapse. And we have expert testimony from a European demolitions expert, Danny Jowenko, who said "This is controlled demolition… a team of experts did this… This is professional work, without any doubt."

 

[RedIbis]

Since physical evidence with a verifiable chain of custody is the most persuasive, please explain how a post on an internet discussion board can be considered evidence.

 

[Gravy]

Does Richard win a prize?

He does: a permanent place on the "Just for Laffs" bulletin board next to the water cooler outside conference room C-2 at NIST headquarters.

What a maroon!

 

[Gorgonian]

Since physical evidence with a verifiable chain of custody is the most persuasive, please explain how a post on an internet discussion board can be considered evidence.

Since Fruity Pebbles soaked in whole milk is the best breakfast, please explain how pancakes and sausage can be considered breakfast.

 

[pomeroo]

Don't shoot the messenger

Richard Gage, AIA – Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth



http://www.ae911truth.org/info/24

Does Richard win a prize?

No. He gets demeriits for repeating Chris Bollyn's lie about what Mark Loizeaux supposedly said. I know, I know--you're JAQ.

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

Don't shoot the messenger

Richard Gage, AIA – Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth



http://www.ae911truth.org/info/24

Does Richard win a prize?

Only for being an idiot, 1,340°f- 726.6666667°c is easily reached by a hydrocarbon fire, 1,340° C 2444° Fwould not be easy for a hydrocarbon fire to reach.

315.5555556C is 600°F,426.6666667°Cis 800°F

NIST states that the material that fell in the rubble pile was 700-800c already easily creating the necessary temperatures.

1565.5555556°c is 2,850°F

Again the world trade center fires reached 800c from carbons alone.

Now since steel can oxidize at 600c with water vapor in the gas phase, or with chlorides at 800c and that oxidation can start a 3000c-5432 degree Fahrenheit reaction.

I do not think we have the problem that Mr. Gage thinks we do in explaining the heat in the rubble pile or the collapse of the buildings.

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/klu/oxid/2003/00000059/F0020005/00463539

http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/Xplore/login.jsp?url=/iel5/6432/17207/00792515.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxy-fuel_welding_and_cutting

In Oxy-fuel cutting, a cutting torch is used to heat up ferrous metal to kindling temperature (about 980°C). A stream of pure oxygen is trained on the hot metal which chemically combines with the iron which then flows out of the cut, or kerf, as an iron-oxide slag

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermic_lance

Thermal lances burn at 7000 to 8000°F (3870 to 4420°C)[citation needed], melting even rocks.

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

Since physical evidence with a verifiable chain of custody is the most persuasive, please explain how a post on an internet discussion board can be considered evidence.

It should make sense and be consistent with the laws of the physical universe. If it gives a logical reason for believing in a suspicious-non natural-Unexpected, occurrence that would help.

 

[defaultdotxbe]

Since Fruity Pebbles soaked in whole milk is the best breakfast, please explain how pancakes and sausage can be considered breakfast.

strawman, everyone knows the only REAL fruit-flavored cereal is fruit loops, but the best breakfast is mountain dew and cold poptarts (at least thats what i had all through high school, college, and for some years afterward)

 

[Sizzler]

Let's start with temperatures – 1,340° F. temperatures, recorded in thermal images of the surface of the World Trade Center rubble pile a week after 9/11 by NASA's AVIRIS equipment on USGS overflights. Such temperatures cannot be achieved by oxygen-starved hydrocarbon fires. Such fires burn at only 600 to 800° F. Remember, there was no fire on the top of the pile. The source of this incredible heat was therefore below the surface of the rubble, where it must have been far hotter than 1,340 degrees.

and...

Appendix C of FEMA's BPAT Report (attached to this email) documents steel samples showing rapid oxidation, sulfidation, and intergranular melting. A liquid eutectic mixture, including sulfur from an unknown source, caused intense corrosion of the steel, gaping holes in wide flange beams, and the thinning of half-inch-thick flanges to almost razor-sharpness in the World Trade Center 7 steel. The New York Times called this "the deepest mystery uncovered in the investigation."

NIST left all of this crucial forensic evidence out of its report. Why? Because it didn't fit in with the official conspiracy theory.

Last year, physicist Steven Jones, two other physicists, and a geologist analyzed the slag at the ends of the beams and in the samples of the previously molten metal. They found iron, aluminum, sulfur, manganese and fluorine – the chemical evidence of thermate, a high-tech incendiary cutting charge used by the military to cut through steel like a hot knife through butter. The by-product of the thermate reaction is molten iron! There's no other possible source for all the molten iron that was found. One of thermate's key ingredients is sulfur, which can form the liquid eutectic that FEMA found and lower the melting point of steel.

and....

The destruction began suddenly at the base of the building. Several first responders reported explosions occurring about a second before the collapse. There was the symmetrical, near-free-fall speed of collapse, through the path of greatest resistance – with 40,000 tons of steel designed to resist this load – straight down into its own footprint. This requires that all the columns have to fail within a fraction of a second of each other – perimeter columns as well as core columns.

and

And we have expert testimony from a European demolitions expert, Danny Jowenko, who said "This is controlled demolition… a team of experts did this… This is professional work, without any doubt."

Fire cannot produce these effects. Fire produces large, gradual deformations and asymmetrical collapses.

Are the best forms of evidence in my opinion.

1. core rubble temperatures would have been hotter than the surface yet oxygen starved....hard to account for given the time the temperatures lasted for.

2. thinned steel/presence of sulfur...again, hard to account for and dubbed "the greatest mystery"

3. near free-fall collapse into footprint and almost symmetrical. again, hard to account for given 6.5 collapse time. (~.5 seconds faster than freefall)

4. appeal to authority