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Johnny come lately?

Sizzler said:
i've seen the video and read the report.

more than wood chips were added.

can you find me a video or a report of someone successfully mixing materials into molten aluminum such that it glows orange when poured in daylight?

Jones is the only one i am aware of that has even tried to do this.

Why do people deny molen steel/iron anyway? JOM and FEMA reported intergranular melting of steel due to a lowered melting point because of the presence of sulfur (1000degrees C). It is recorded in the official report done by FEMA.

Why the denial when JOM and FEMA cleary report that it happened?

The denial of molten steel/iron is so silly.

Why do debunkers claim no steel melted when we cleary know that certain pieces of steel that were preserved were turned to "swiss cheese".

Are both sides guilty of disinformation?
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Yes, but IIRC he only added one thing to one pot (wood chips) and I believe bits of plastic to another. Something tells me there were many, many different contaminants in ANY molten metal at GZ.

Show me evidence of POOLS of molten STEEL, and I will be glad to take a look.

As for finding you a video, I guess I cannot, so that means if it isn't on you tube, no one has done it right?

I am glad to see that in this short time since you left your truther readings, you have read both JOM and FEMA. You must be doing a lot of reading since coming here, or did you read those reports prior to your arrival here as well (I had thought you said your exposure to the arguments before coming here was the truther positions etc...).

I for one, am not denying the existence of molten steel, in some form, at GZ. I am sure the friction of the collapses may have causes small bits of steel to turn molten. As well, the under-debris fires and embers likely could have heated the metal, regardless of type, hot enough to make small elements of it molten.

Nice strawman by the way...your slip is showing a little more.

TAM:)
 
Strawman???

Intergranualr melting is recorded.

Molten metal resembling molten iron/steel is observed on video.

GZ rubble piles support temperatures hot enought to melt steel.

GZ workers report seeing molten steel.

Pieces of steel with melted parts are recorded in the history.

So what is with the denial?

Sulfur was present, temperatures were hot, steel melted. So what?


By the way, what is the difference between melting and intergranular melting?
 
Strawman...yes.

Your claim that we debunkers deny the melting of ANY steel is a strawman argument.

Resembling molten iron/steel? based on what? A video where the color and or brightness of the video (a product of camera type, lighting, video tape, etc...) can dramatically alter what is seen and hence the interpretation?

Like I said, where have I denied it????

As for your last question, ****ed if I know.

TAM:)
 
T.A.M. said:
Strawman...yes.

Your claim that we debunkers deny the melting of ANY steel is a strawman argument.

Resembling molten iron/steel? based on what? A video where the color and or brightness of the video (a product of camera type, lighting, video tape, etc...) can dramatically alter what is seen and hence the interpretation?

Like I said, where have I denied it????

As for your last question, ****ed if I know.

TAM:)
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So why do so many debunkers try to discredit molten steel/iron?

I mean, all that was needed was sulfur and 1000 degrees C. So why is so much time spent trying to show that molten metal is NOT steel?

Even NIST attempts to debunk molten steel claims.

Why waste energy debunking it when molten steel is perfectly ok under the official hypothesis?

This question is not specifically for you, but more for the debuning movement.
 
I think the debunkers do not try to discredit it. They simply argue that there is no proof of POOLS of MOLTEN STEEL. There is little proof of MOLTEN STEEL at all. The exception, would be that around the sulfidation issue. This is why I accused you of making a strawman argument.

Oh, and regarding your claim that GZ workers saw Molten STEEL, please show me a report from one GZ worker, who is qualified to differentiate based on observation alone whether the metal was steel or not, who said they saw MOLTEN STEEL. (A Paramedic does not qualify, unless they were a metalurgist before they became a first responder).

TAM:)
 
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Sizzler said:
Intergranualr melting is recorded... Sulfur was present, temperatures were hot, steel melted. So what?
Click to expand...


The temperatures at which this type of corrosion can take place are significantly lower than the melting point of steel.
 
Sizzler said:
Molten metal resembling molten iron/steel is observed on video.
Click to expand...


Be careful not to assume a contested conclusion. Whether or not the substance in question resembles steel or iron any more than it does other metals or amalgams is precisely the question at issue.
 
T.A.M. said:
I think the debunkers do not try to discredit it. They simply argue that there is no proof of POOLS of MOLTEN STEEL. There is little proof of MOLTEN STEEL at all. The exception, would be that around the sulfidation issue. This is why I accused you of making a strawman argument.

Oh, and regarding your claim that GZ workers saw Molten STEEL, please show me a report from one GZ worker, who is qualified to differentiate based on observation alone whether the metal was steel or not, who said they saw MOLTEN STEEL. (A Paramedic does not qualify, unless they were a metalurgist before they became a first responder).

TAM:)
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the best i've seen is a demolition expert who reported molten steel.

but, yeah, no metalurgist report other than FEMA tests on a few pieces of steel.

but i mean, the surface temperatures of GZ support melted steel below.

so why deny?

steel was in the rubble. sulfur was in the rubble. hot fire above 1000 degrees C was in the rubble.

steel melted.

who cares if they were pools? it doesn't prove anything, does it?
 
Par, the author of the book that the picture came from stated that the material pouring out is Iron, not Aluminum.
 
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adoucette said:
Par, the author of the book that the picture came from stated that the material pouring out is Iron, not Aluminum.
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Hi adoucette, and welcome to the forum!

I'd be interested to read that author's explanation of how he determined the composition of the material.

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
While I don't believe we can precisely determine what the material is, I believe the videos offer pretty compelling evidence for what it is not.

This video:

h ttp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1035128522922802395&q=thermite+stabilized&total=3&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

shows large amounts of the material striking the Aluminum cladding, but the cladding appears unharmed by this repeated encounter.

It would thus appear that the material has to be at a temp less than the melting point of Aluminum (don't know the alloy of the cladding but the max melting temp it could be is ~ 659 C)

NIST points out that the alloys used in the plane melt between 475 C and 640 C, so the lower temp alloy might still be a candidate but the higher temp alloy seems more problematic.

Lead melts at 327 C so it remains a candidate.

The typical working temp for glass (when its soft but doesn't flow) is between 1121 C and 1150 C, plate glass is a tad higher, so it does not seem to be a candidate.

Melted Iron, at ~ 1500 C, seems to clearly not be a candidate.

Arthur
 
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Myriad said:
Hi adoucette, and welcome to the forum!

I'd be interested to read that author's explanation of how he determined the composition of the material.

Respectfully,
Myriad
Click to expand...

Thanks, as they say, "long time Reader, first time Poster" :)

The picture is found on a website on making Aluminum, so many thought that the picture was of an Aluminum pour.

The actual photo however is of an Iron pour as the actual builder of the home foundry points out on his web site.

h ttp://stephenchastain.com/metaltalk.htm

Scroll to second page under "Glowing Molten Aluminum Discussion"

Arthur
 
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