The science of 'ignore'

Ivor the Engineer

Penultimate Amazing
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http://www.pr.mq.edu.au/macnews/showitem.asp?ItemID=36

Ostracism - giving someone the silent treatment, or acting like they are invisible. Most of us have done it to someone at some time. When we do it, it's completely justified but when it's done to us - well, it's completely unreasonable.

...

Human victims of ostracism report a loss of the sense of belonging, loss of control, lower self-esteem and a feeling of unworthiness. Long term, ostracism can ruin relationships and change the personality or behaviour of the victim.

...

So if ostracism has such negative effects then why do we do it, and why do we do it when we don't like receiving it?

Williams says the answer to the first question is because it is powerful, it works and we can more easily deny using it than if we use harsh words or actions. To answer the second question he says it's like being both a pedestrian and a driver. "When we're pedestrians we blame car drivers for everything, but when we're driving it's always the pedestrian's fault."

He makes the distinction between physical ostracism, or banishment, and social ostracism - the latter he believes is much worse for targets because they remain in the presence of their ostracisers and so cannot escape the constant reminder that their existence is meaningless.

...

Williams organised for two people to begin tossing a ball to one another and then begin including other lab workers who were not aware the game was a set-up. After around five tosses the original two suddenly excluded the others in the group and went back to tossing the ball only to each other.

Williams observed differences in the way males and females dealt with the ostracism. "When they were excluded from the ball-tossing, females kept looking back and forth, trying to maintain eye contact with the others and even laughing that they had been left out. But after a while they looked downcast and obviously disappointed at being excluded."

Men on the other hand almost immediately did something else. "Suddenly the contents of their wallets became very interesting or they did another face-saving activity to show that they were not bothered at all," Williams says. "But after about five minutes of doing that, they too looked dejected and sad."

He then got the group together for another activity to see if the ostracism had any effects on the subsequent dynamics of the group. He found that females would work very hard to get back into the good graces of the others in the group while males would not work hard in the group at all.

"When people are ostracised in this way, it deprives them of their sense of control," Williams explains. "If given the chance, many people try to exercise even more control than they would otherwise exert in a group just to regain the sense of control that was threatened in the ostracism experience."

Williams' studies of ostracism over the years found that regardless of their gender, those being ostracised report a loss of self worth and lower self esteem even when given the silent treatment by complete strangers, although it bothered them more if it was someone important to them.

He says that the ostraciser on the other hand finds the behaviour empowering. "Some are proud of its impact. Others are quite repentant and realise it has ruined their relationship with the other person," Williams says.

"In most cases, the more effective it is the more likely people will use it. A recent study found that low self-esteem people are more likely to use ostracism in their relationships as a tactic, a means to get their own way. But higher self-esteem people are more likely to use it as a reflection of disengagement. When it is used on high self-esteem people, they are more likely to leave the relationship," he adds.

However, the long term effects of ostracism are fundamentally different to the short term effects. In the long term, people run out of energy.

"They don't have the resources to cope with being ignored any more and end up accepting what has been suggested by the ostracism - that they are unworthy. When this happens people become alienated, depressed and lose the perspective that they could be likeable to someone," Williams says.

Williams notes that the behaviour often turns around to bite the ostraciser because they end up losing what made the other person attractive in the first place because they have destroyed that person's self-esteem.

"Ostracisers end up being controlled by their behaviour because they don't know how to stop it and often forget what started it in the first place. But they have to keep it up or admit they were wrong, and most don't want to do that."


So, are you the ignorer or the ignored? Does the above ring any bells for you?
 
http://www.pr.mq.edu.au/macnews/showitem.asp?ItemID=36




So, are you the ignorer or the ignored? Does the above ring any bells for you?

My wife is the queen of Not Talking To someone. You should see the lengths she'll go to to Not Talk To someone. When she's Not Talking To you, you stay not talked to. Of course, the other person always deserves it. I know because I once suggested the one who she wasn't talking to may have been right and suddenly I was the one she was Not Talking To and I deserved it because I was Taking Her Side. I have since seen the error of my ways.
 
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My mother is also a Queen-of-Not-Talking-To. Her two methods of discipline when my brothers and I were kids were either beating the crap out of us, or ignoring us for days. Once we got to be teens, and she could no longer beat us, Not-Talking-To became her modus operandi. I tried Not-Talking-To her one time when I was mad at her, but that only got me in trouble.

Now, when she shuns me, I can laugh at it.
 
So, are you the ignorer or the ignored? Does the above ring any bells for you?

I once had a peaceful four hour drive at night while I thought my wife was asleep in the passenger seat. It turns out she was mad at me the whole time.

The silent treatment used to be my wife's preferred method of retaliation. The problem, of course, is that I generally didn't know why she was mad in the first place. Being ignored when you know the reason why is easier to take, even if you don't agree with that reason.
 
I once had a peaceful four hour drive at night while I thought my wife was asleep in the passenger seat. It turns out she was mad at me the whole time.

LOL. That's very funny.

I couldn't imagine ignoring hubby. In fact I can't recall ever giving anyone the silent treatment, although I'm sure I must have done it as a teen. If I'm mad with hubby I do the complete reverse. I don't stop talking. I just talk and talk and rant and talk and go on and on until I've got it all out of my system. That can take anywhere between five and thirty minutes, I'd say. Then hubby says "finished?" and I say "yes" and then we start laughing.

The silent treatment is a bit too close to game-playing for my liking. I'm very hot-tempered, but also very quick to forgive and forget, and hate the idea of stewing in silence.
 
The silent treatment used to be my wife's preferred method of retaliation. The problem, of course, is that I generally didn't know why she was mad in the first place. Being ignored when you know the reason why is easier to take, even if you don't agree with that reason.

My father is notoriously quiet. Not shy, just the extreme opposite of talkative. This bugged my maternal grandmother to no end. Once, when he picked her up to visit my mother in the hospital she decided to say nothing, and let him start any conversation that may come up during the 30 minute drive. The trip was completely silent.

My grandmother recalled of that ride "he didn't say a word, just totally ignored me the whole way! How could he sit there and ignore me for 30 minutes, I was just sitting there waiting for him to say something! Why does he hate me?".

My father recalled: "what a pleasant drive with my mother-in-law".

Sometimes you get into trouble ascribing motive to someone else's silence.
 
Is there a way to find out who has the most "ignores"? I mean, who is on the most "ignore" lists?

I'd like to think I am in at least the top 10 or so.

Tokie
 
I think Modified has brought up an excellent point about knowing why you are being ignored making it easier to take.

Perhaps that's why people/groups who use ostracism as a punishment so often keep the victim guessing about the reason(s) for their exclusion?

Is it a 'perfect-play' in social warfare? I.e. is there nothing the victim can do but take it or leave the social group?

Do men engage in this behaviour more, less or the same amount as women?
 
Indeed.

My mom was like this.

She'd get furious at people for tiny little sleights, percieved or real (think: Poe's The Cask of Amantillado) and go about furious and ranting for weeks at everyone else, while utterly ignoring the malefactor who often both neither knew nor cared that she was upset with them.

Tokie
 
There is only one thing in life worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about.

Oscar Wilde
 
I once had a peaceful four hour drive at night while I thought my wife was asleep in the passenger seat. It turns out she was mad at me the whole time.

The silent treatment used to be my wife's preferred method of retaliation. The problem, of course, is that I generally didn't know why she was mad in the first place. Being ignored when you know the reason why is easier to take, even if you don't agree with that reason.

I had a girlfriend that would give me the silent treatment when she was mad at me and not tell me why. After twenty minutes or so I'd realize she hadn't said a word, and ask, "what's wrong?" She would just shake her head "no". This would go on for hours. By the time I finally got her to tell me what was wrong, I was so mad at her for not telling me that I didn't care what I did anymore. I eventually broke up with her because of it.
 
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By the time I finally got her to tell me what was wrong, I was so mad at her for not telling me that I didn't care what I did anymore. I eventually broke up with her because of it.

Same here. Being the victim of such treatment would leave me fuming for days, and I am usually very even-tempered. My wife hasn't done it for the last five years or so (we've been married for six), but thinking about it still makes me angry.
 
I think Modified has brought up an excellent point about knowing why you are being ignored making it easier to take.

Note that in the ball-tossing experiment the subjects didn't know the reason. If they had, I think the results would have been much less dramatic. For example, after a bad toss by the subject, one of the participants could say "You stink at this," and then begin the ignoring. Most people would just shrug that off.
 
I immediately thought of this study when I saw the topic title.

http://www.neuropsychiatryreviews.com/feb04/npr_feb04_rejection.html

The anterior insula and right ventral prefrontal cortex also became more active when the students were intentionally excluded. Although increased anterior insula activity was not significantly associated with self-reported distress from being excluded, a negative relationship emerged between such distress and the rise in right ventral prefrontal cortex activity. Furthermore, there was a negative association between the greater right ventral prefrontal cortex and dorsal anterior cingulate cortex activity that occurred on fMRI with intentional exclusion. These findings suggest that the right ventral prefrontal cortex “may play a self-regulatory role in mitigating the distressing effects of social exclusion,” the investigators speculated.

Interestingly, the dorsal anterior cingulate cortex seemed to mediate the negative association between right ventral prefrontal cortex activity and the distress that the students felt when they were intentionally excluded. When the investigators controlled for anterior cingulate cortex activity, the association was no longer significant—a finding similar to the results of prior studies of the self-regulation of physical pain.
 
I used to have a few girl friends that would do the silent deal......

key word, "used" to. Communication is the foundation of relationships.

That immature behavior is better left behind. ;)
 
I once had a peaceful four hour drive at night while I thought my wife was asleep in the passenger seat. It turns out she was mad at me the whole time.

I had a girlfriend that would give me the silent treatment when she was mad at me and not tell me why. After twenty minutes or so I'd realize she hadn't said a word, and ask, "what's wrong?" She would just shake her head "no". This would go on for hours. By the time I finally got her to tell me what was wrong, I was so mad at her for not telling me that I didn't care what I did anymore. I eventually broke up with her because of it.

Why do these sound so familiar, I ended up getting ignored for almost a week, as I hadn't asked "what's up?" after a silence of over 3 hours (while she was reading a book) so I just carried on prepping my brew gear, the missus just got into a bigger and bigger huff so that by the time I was boiling my wort she had worked herself into such a rage that she came in the Kitchen Slapped me called me a bunch of stuff and stormed back into the Living room.

At least then I Knew I was being ignored, apparantley I was supposed to have determined telepathically that she had become bored and wanted to go for a walk, even though I had asked her if it she wanted to do something or was it ok to start my brew.

If we could get ignore/ignored stats for the board it might be fun to see which gender ignores people more :p
 
If you think being ignored is tough, try having people attempt to erase your name from history altogether. Didn't work any better than ostracism though. Mwahaha!
 

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