Million Dollar Challenge - should it stay?

The MDC, should:

  • be discontinued as advised by Randi

    Votes: 38 25.3%

  • continue in its present form

    Votes: 60 40.0%

  • be continued as a challenge for an amount of money

    Votes: 36 24.0%

  • be increased

    Votes: 16 10.7%
  • Total voters
    150
Could this also have anything to do with Randi's age, health and perhaps he wants to see to the disposition of it while he is still able to?
 
Why isn’t there a “continue without money” choice?

The offer of money has been used as a negative as much as a positive . . .
“It doesn’t exist” (implying Randi is a liar)
“It won’t be paid” (implying Randi is dishonest)
“My ’gift’ is not for sale“ (implying “gifted“ people are “holier than thou“)
“etc, etc”.

To be able to say that the $1,000,000 challenge did exist for 10 years is sufficient.

As an alternative - Instead of the JREF offering a challenge to prove claims for money, perhaps it should offer an “invitation to verify claims” without money. There should be a set of standard tests with standard protocols to cover most of the common paranormal claims. This would greatly reduce the time spent by JREF and would let people know upfront what they are “in for“. JREF shouldn’t cater for fringe “I can make you pee” claims.

The JREF invitation/challenge should be - “Verify your claims for the good of humanity”.
 
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I think the biggest factor here, and one that is not being stated explicitly enough, is that the one million dollar challenge is a failure - at least at what it was initially aimed at. Randi's original challenge, which started at $1000, and grew to $10,000, was almost a part of his persona. The fact that he always had a cheque for the amount in his wallet, ready to be awarded at a moment's notice to anyone who could demonstrate the paranormal to him was part of his curmudgeonly personality, and what drew the media to him. The main reason the challenge was expanded to $1,000,000, and formalized in the manner it has been was to attempt to draw in the big names - the Sylvia Brownes, the Uri Gellars, etc. In that respect it has failed. And is anyone surprised?

I suspect that if any of the high-profile woos who have been avoiding Randi like the plague for a decade choose to open their fat faces about the demise of the challenge, Randi will be right there, in their aforementioned faces, offering to implement it once more, just for them. I'm rather looking forward to watching the panicked backpedalling that will ensue.
 
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I voted that the money challenge should continue in some form or another.
a monetary challenge can still serve to stamp out the small frye before they have a chance to start and continue to put a small amount of pressure on the big wig con artists.
But like someone pointed out in another thread, the challenges are only being taken by the self-diluded. The original purpose of the MDC, I think, was to draw out the ones who do the real damage to society: the media whores and big con artists like S. Browne, et. al.

In this respect I think the MDC has outlived it's primary usefullness. Quite frankly, the million dollars is no longer a draw to the Brownes and Edwards. They make far more money from thier BS so it does not serve thier purposes to even consider taking a challenge for only a mear million dollars.

They can sit there forever putting off and ignoring the MDC while spewing out all kinds of lame excuses that thier adherents willingly swallow and continue to rake in the cash.
To them the MDC is nothing but a mild irratant.

What is important to these people is the media. The Montell shows, the Crossing Over television shows. TV series like "Ghost Whisperer" and "Medium" that promote the bunk that is thier bread and butter. This is how they gain the the chattel they feed on.

I hate to say it but Randi and the JREF does not yet posses the media clout that these criminals have. Just about any rube on the street knows who Sylvia Browne is, but there are very few who know who James Randi is.

That is the area where I think the JREF needs to address. Some times you have to fight fire with fire. Even if it means debasing yourself down to the level of media whoreing. There needs to be more media fur rankleing. Chris Angel got an idea. At least he caused a few blogs to hum for a few days. It's a start.

Yea, I know it's sensationalistic and melodramatic, (Heck, I even criticized J. Randi for going ballistic on S. Browne's press secretary once. But I see the bigger picture now) but the general viewing public has degenrated down to jaded, voyeristic, attention deficite, dirty laundry junkies.
Just look at the programs lately on Discovery and TLC. What shame.

I fear the same will happen soon to CSPAN and, heaven forbid, the NASA channel.

JREF and skepticizim needs to be media marketed also. Hit the charletans where it hurts: on TV.
You could turn the MDC into a *shudder* reality show series.*retch* Televise the tests. There would be plenty of takers and the show's media exposure would put even greater pressure on the fat cash hyenas.

Produce TV shows that promote skepticizim and scientific thinking unapologeticaly especially in the areas of the paranormal.
You could make a movie or create a detective series about a hero that goes around protecting people from getting swindled by psychics and charletans. Heck, you could throw in a murder, shoot out or car chase or two.
You could have CSI-style montages with euro-porno music playing in the background while the hero investigates and explains the technics and gadgets the swindlers use.
You could pattern the villans after Browne and others (lawyers allowing)

I know it would be a long row to hoe, The public likes to cling to favored warm and fuzzy fantasies.

On the serious side, JREF could lobby for tougher laws and enforcement concerining truth in advertising and change the dietary suppliment definitions that homeopathy and quack medicinery hide behind.

Lobby for laws that force societal cancers like Browne, Edwards, and other hokum artists like Pear audio to scientificaly and legaly prove thier abilities before they can profit from them. God, what ever happen to truth in advertising laws? What ever happend to our patent office too while your'e at it.
Don't let them hide under the ambiguous umbrella of "entertainment" or a "church".

Ok. So these may be bad ideas and you may never win at thier game. But you could at least make it as uncomfortable as possible for them. You know, comfort the aflicted and aflict the comfortable.
 
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uruk said:
What is important to these people is the media. The Montell shows, the Crossing Over television shows. TV series like "Ghost Whisperer" and "Medium" that promote the bunk that is thier bread and butter. This is how they gain the the chattel they feed on.

I hate to say it but Randi and the JREF does not yet posses the media clout that these criminals have. Just about any rube on the street knows who Sylvia Browne is, but there are very few who know who James Randi is.
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I can't agree with this more. A JREF TV show, on a major network, or even a big cable network, would be undeniably awesome, and a quite a large stick to beat back the tides of Zicam (a homeopathic cold remedy now advertised on every cable channel I watch) and Browne.
 
sthomson said:
I can't agree with this more. A JREF TV show, on a major network, or even a big cable network, would be undeniably awesome, and a quite a large stick to beat back the tides of Zicam (a homeopathic cold remedy now advertised on every cable channel I watch) and Browne.
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That would be cool. Every week they could tackle a different subject.

A show similar to Mythbusters but for paranormal, gadgets and homepathic subjects would be cool too. They could call it "Crapbusters" or "Step Away from that Psychic Hotline!".

Penn and Teller's show is pretty good but it's a bit too free with the ad hominims (even if they are deserved) and it's on skinamax. something more mainstream would be better.
 
I'm with the "keep the challenge" crowd.

Several people have said that the million could be leveraged to better effect elsewhere. But I think we are losing a tool to combat claimants (You can levitate? Well there's a million bucks if you can prove it!). Also, once the MDC goes away, I can only imagine psychics, et al coming out of the woo(!)dwork saying, "You see? It was a scam! Randi's running scared!"
 
ObscureReferenceMan said:
You can levitate? Well there's a million bucks if you can prove it!.
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Is that really any better than “If you genuinely have the ability to levitate, then this is the most scientifically significant ability ever. For the good of humanity, will you please validate your ability in a credible test.” If not - Why not.?

What lame excuse are they going to use against "the good of humanity"?
 
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ynot said:
Is that really any better than “If you genuinely have the ability to levitate, then this is the most scientifically significant ability ever. For the good of humanity, will you please validate your ability in a credible test.” If not - Why not.?

What lame excuse are they going to use against "the good of humanity"?
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Also true. But having the MDC in my hip pocket has always given me a warm fuzzy feeling.
 
I have to agree with Uruk.

If anything, this is a proof that it's time to move on.

If it's true that Randi had to raise the amount of money at a certain point where 1000 dollars wasn't enough, it is also true now. Either you raise the offer to 100 million dollars or you switch to another thing. Certainly one Million dollars can't compete with what these charlatans are making out of their scams.

I agree that you have to fight fire with fire and there's nothing more painful to these bastards than hitting them with media. Virtually no one that I speak to knows who James Randi or Michael Shermer or Daniel Dennett is (They also ignore that Criss Angel and Penn & Teller are actually skeptics themselves)... but they know of a lot of "psychics" and "mediums". And a lot of them, true reasonable minded, have never considered that maybe a much simpler rational explanation to their "powers" could explain what they do.

I think that the JREF should seriously consider the possiblity offered by Uruk. It's time for a real Media Presence, even if it means selling out a little bit.

Criss Angel seems to be going that way.
Maybe he should be the one to "inherit the crown after Randi":)
 
I voted to discontinue the prize. How many times have potential challengers declined the invitation because they're "not in it for the money"? It's time to get rid of this excuse, and also any speculation that JREF is protecting the money unfairly. Take the money out of the equation and spend it on educating the masses.
 
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The media requirement makes it easier for those who are likely to fail.
It is therefore not a bona fide challenge, but a meaningless publicity gimmick
 
Speed of Light said:
Using Media Presence as Eligibility Criteria is illogical, as the media are more interested in Sensational or Extravagant claims, which are less likely to succeed - and those seeking publicity are more likely to have ulterior motives Eg Financial reasons, or ego needs.
Eligibility criterior is normally used to narrow the field down to those who are more likely to succeed, but with this challenge, the opposite is the case - They are more likely to fail - The conditions are therefore unfair. Anyone can get media exposure, if they really try, anyway. It doesn't prove anything except that they are more 'determined' or 'obsessive' about entering the challenge.
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Seems that, by your own words, the media requirement isn't all that limiting after all, is it?


Speed of Light said:
Can I suggest using another eligibility criteria -
Simply say that if anyone can pass one of the other (named) psychic challenges, then they could apply for this one - That should narrow it down a bit!
This would keep the challenge going, but drastically reduce the workload.
I'm sure that the financial problems could be overcome somehow
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May I suggest that, if you were to pass one of the other challenges, it would be quite likely you would get your name in the paper, thus satisfying the media requirement?
 
No sorry Randi but i disagree with you. No matter how you try to tell this story the woo-woo's will claim it as a Victory. "See i told you, there never WAS a million"..... Using the money now is a horrible mistake even if it is used for a very good purpose. The million need to be there in order for Randi to "put his money where his mouth is". :)
 
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