• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Don't criticise Islam, says UN

May I offer you something, Tailgater?

2005958054998710913_fs.jpg
:D
 
Last edited:
frank462 said:
Check out this article:

Paving the Way for a Muslim Parallel Society

[...]

Be sure to read the whole article, it's rather long.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the pointer, I've read it now. I faintly recall having read a similar article a while ago; perhaps it actually was this one. I think it's a good and comprehensive summary of of the judicial situation in Germany with regards to Islam. The court case described in the excerpt you quoted is actually pretty mild compared to what follows. (I remember when this was news, I felt the outrage was a bit over the top in light of the swift and strong handling of the situation after it went public.) The study which discovered an average of 17% arranged marriages in the Muslim immigrant community is particularly striking.

Unfortunately the article fails to engage any of the common counter arguments, and neither does it analyze the hypocrisy of conservative politicians by which they jeopardize their own case. A strict laïcité would be much easier to justify than all this blabber about preserving the "occidental Christian culture", and allowing fully dressed Catholic sisters to teach in elementary schools.

ETA: The address of the Muslim website given in the article apparently suffered from translator overeagerness. The correct spelling is muslim-markt.de. It is a well-known Muslim website and fairly mainstream. If one looks beyond the superficial statements calling for peace and harmony and all that, one can find some pretty wacky interpretations of current politics on the site. It's quite interesting actually. All the usual stuff is there: Boycott Israel, anti-Americanism, 9/11 conspiracy theories, etc. ETA 2: At least on their forum I even read claims that al-Qaeda is an invention of the West.
 
Last edited:
FireGarden said:
The weapon they DID use makes it terrorism, regardless of the target.
Click to expand...

Quite correct. Stealing an empty airliner and using as a weapon under its protected markings is as much an act of terrorism as the actual 9-11 attacks. There is no nuance or navel-gazing required and you do not have to reach the question of the validity of the target. For the record, the Pentagon and Capitol (or White House - according to one's speculation) are legitimate military targets. The WTC is not a valid target at least in the time and manner it was attacked (see proportionality.)
 
To speak of "legitimate military targets" in this context presupposes that you consider Al-Qaeda's war on the United States to be legitimate.

Just pointing that out.

Bye.
 
Abdul Alhazred said:
To speak of "legitimate military targets" in this context presupposes that you consider Al-Qaeda's war on the United States to be legitimate.

Just pointing that out.

Bye.
Click to expand...

Not in the least. Those portions of the LOAC which govern target selection and manner of engagement have nothing whatsoever to do with the political goals of the conflict. There is no rational manner by which to exclude the Pentagon from a list of legitimate targets - it is the ultimate HQ for all US military operations. There are illegal ways by which to attack it - such as using "expanding" bullets, using biological warfare agents or by slamming a civilian airliner into it.

In fact, al Qaeda cannot enjoy battlefield privilege because of their lack of identifying devices and in not carrying their weapons openly.
 
Upchurch said:
As it does in any culture. Consider two of the cultural crises we have here in the US: the push for creationism in the classroom and the subjugation of gays and lesbians. Religion plays an important part in each of these, but they are inherently political in nature. Likewise, although on a much different intensity, Islamic terrorism is a political movement. I'll grant you the foot soldiers are religiously motivated, but those in command are guided by politics.

On 9/11, you'll notice that a symbol of our economic power was attacked, not a religious symbol.
Click to expand...



With all due respect I think you're missing the fundamental point of these particular terrorists, which is that they believe Islam and only Islam can and must regulate every single aspect of life.

You talk of "religion" and "politics" and "culture" and "economic power" as individual things. For them there is just "Allah", "Allah", "Allah" and "Allah".

They perceive the west as Godless, materialistic, corrupted and imperialistic. It would not make sense for them to target western religious symbols, because they don't think we value them.

-Gumboot
 
frank462 said:
A recent ruling in Germany by a judge who cited the Koran underscores the dilemma the country faces in reconciling Western values with a growing immigrant population. A disturbing number of rulings are helping to create a parallel Muslim world in Germany that is welcoming to Islamic fundamentalists.
Click to expand...


I've seen it claimed, by Muslims themselves, that their communities in Western Europe are not becoming "melting pot", so to speak, at least not nearly as fast as, say, in the US a hundred years ago. This was due to phones and satellite dishes allowing them to continue to remain deeply connected to their source communites much more than past waves of immigrants. This was not considered a good thing.
 
gumboot said:
With all due respect I think you're missing the fundamental point of these particular terrorists, which is that they believe Islam and only Islam can and must regulate every single aspect of life.

You talk of "religion" and "politics" and "culture" and "economic power" as individual things. For them there is just "Allah", "Allah", "Allah" and "Allah".

They perceive the west as Godless, materialistic, corrupted and imperialistic. It would not make sense for them to target western religious symbols, because they don't think we value them.

-Gumboot
Click to expand...

I am consistently in awe of your reasoning on the entire 'why they hate us' saga. (Although if I can offer one criticism, remember Allah is simply the one God. 'And certainly he is an infidel, who believes God is the third of three' (paraphrasing from Chapter5 of Quran')

On this issue, I'm often reminded of a KKK member of Louis Theroux and the Nazi's. He justifies he hatred for blacks on them 'raping his women'. Does he hate them for this? **** no.

The best piece of evidence I can find, is when Ziad Jarrah was stopped at customs in early 2000 with an overlay of a page of the Quran on his passport. Some of us keep pictures of our girlfriends in their wallet. This guy kept the words of God in that place. And he had a girlfriend.

What's this all about? Love for the pixies at the end of the garden.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom