Million Dollar Challenge - should it stay?

[The Atheist]

I'm encouraged to do this by the threads around discussing the removal of the challenge where it's plain that lots of people would like it to stay and I'd be interested in the numbers.

Now that people have had a little time to think about it, I'm starting a poll to find out for sure.

Mods may wish to merge it with the other thread...

 

[kmortis]

Although you should be taken out back and horsewhipped for not including a Planet X option. In fact that could be the Planet X option - TA is taken out back and horsewhipped on Planet X.


I don't really understand Randi's reasons for discontinuing the Challenge. Yes, the million could be used elsewhere, but it's a huge draw...isn't it?

 

[The Atheist]

Although you should be taken out back and horsewhipped for not including a Planet X option. In fact that could be the Planet X option - TA is taken out back and horsewhipped on Planet X.

You better hoss-whip me twice, I've never included Planet X options.

Yes, the million could be used elsewhere, but it's a huge draw...isn't it?

Agree. Just how much, we may not know until it's gone.

 

[L7Cz]

Oh, THAT MDC.
I was thinking the Marquis was being discontinued by Randi.

Carry on...

 

[kmortis]

You better hoss-whip me twice, I've never included Planet X options.



Agree. Just how much, we may not know until it's gone.

Well then, change my vote to my aforementioned Planet X version. I'll grab my whip.

Yeah. I really hope Randi knows what he's doing. Maybe he should call Sylvia and ask if it's a good idea or not.

 

[The Atheist]

Oh, THAT MDC.
I was thinking the Marquis was being discontinued by Randi.

Carry on...

Don't be silly, the Marquis only has a little one.








("d" that is)

 

[GzuzKryzt]

I voted not including so-called real-life implications, since it seems to be difficult to increase the prize money.

 

[TuftedPuffin]

I voted to keep there being a prize. Maybe it doesn't have to be a million, but it still should exist. As for Randi's proposed reason that there are better ways to spend the money, yes, that is why there are other organizations spending their own money in those ways. The JREF is not the only skeptical organization out there, it is however the only one offering a substantial prize for a fair demonstration. That niche needs to be filled, and it really isn't Randi's job to do anything else if he doesn't do that.

 

[rjh01]

I do not think that we can say the MDC should go until we know what JREF are going to do with the $1m. Then we can say which is better (maybe).

I vote for the planet X option. It is not my fault you cannot see it.

 

[Wowbagger]

If I was a multi-millionaire, I would be inclined to swoop in, and donate a million bucks, to save the challenge, (assuming it is really the money JREF needs).

Alas, I am not. But, I definately disapprove of the removal of the Challenge, at this time. I might change my mind, when I learn more about the circumstances.

But, I think discontinuing the prize opens up arguments from the woos that we are backing down from a challenge. I think it makes us reek of weakness, in their eyes.

And, furthermore, we are denying the opportunity for someone to actually earn it. Who are we to say it really could never happen? (Even if it is extraordinarily unlikely.)

 

[Babylon Sister]

What difference does it make? It's Randi's challenge. He can do as he wishes with it.

 

[Speed of Light]

Eligibility Criteria

Using Media Presence as Eligibility Criteria is illogical, as the media are more interested in Sensational or Extravagant claims, which are less likely to succeed - and those seeking publicity are more likely to have ulterior motives Eg Financial reasons, or ego needs.
Eligibility criterior is normally used to narrow the field down to those who are more likely to succeed, but with this challenge, the opposite is the case - They are more likely to fail - The conditions are therefore unfair. Anyone can get media exposure, if they really try, anyway. It doesn't prove anything except that they are more 'determined' or 'obsessive' about entering the challenge.
Can I suggest using another eligibility criteria -
Simply say that if anyone can pass one of the other (named) psychic challenges, then they could apply for this one - That should narrow it down a bit!
This would keep the challenge going, but drastically reduce the workload.
I'm sure that the financial problems could be overcome somehow

 

[sthomson]

...but it's a huge draw...isn't it?

In fact, this very question is the crux of the issue. IS the MDC a huge draw? It's pretty clear to me that the MDC isn't a huge draw for potential challengers (unless you include the very few people who've taken the challenge so far), and it doesn't seem to be a huge draw for fence-sitters.

Mostly, it's used as a tool for skeptics, isn't it? It allows us to say, in conversations with believers and fence-sitters, "Look, no one has won the challenge! Surely if such-and-such was true, someone would be glad to win 1 mill for it!" The question we have to ask ourselves, as a community of skeptics: Is there a better tool than a million dollar challenge, and can Randi and the JREF use 1 million dollars to develop such a tool?

I'd like to think so. If not, there are other organizations which can raise a 1 million dollar endowment for a similar challenge.

 

[Santa666]

Focus, focus, focus

I have responded in similar fashion to the other MDC thread, but I will add here also. I have simply copied and pasted one of my responses from there.

Herein lies the problem. The challenge is not being USED. It simply sits out there waiting to be taken. As I previously stated, the MDC should be utilized as the tool it is. First, the JREF should do what it said it would do and take the challenge and throw it in people's faces. Rub their noses in a million dollars that is simply there for the taking. Second, use the MDC as an educational tool. The very nature of the rules and what it is meant to "test" make it an excellent focal point. Other people and organizations don't "care" about the challenge because it doesn't appear like the JREF even cares about it.

As has been discussed over and over again, education is the most important part of critical thinking. So educate, teach, demonstrate, allow the public (teachers, students, housewives, doctors, plumbers, electricians, etc...) to see what the JREF is all about. Use that giant neon million dollar sign attract attention, then use it as a guide to educate those people.

I know these are all lofty, and expensive goals, but a million dollars of operating capital isn't going to last long. It currently still exists, and is, all by itself, one of the biggest education tools the JREF has available; if they would only use it.


Just another two cents.


Santa

 

[krelnik]

One aspect that I haven't seen anyone mention is that the Challenge has a fairly narrow focus, compared to the overall focus of the JREF. Therefore JREF has a ton of money tied up focusing on only a subset of its chosen topic area of critical thinking.

Just look around at the topics in this forum, and you see tons of things that directly relate to critical thinking but are clearly untestable via the challenge. Just a few that come to mind are consipiracy theories, UFOs, bigfoot, the loch ness monster and ghosts. The challenge cannot help us battle these woos.

Then there's the whole area of quackery including homeopathy, energy medicine machines and so on. These are very difficult to test properly due to the placebo effect as well as ethical concerns. The challenge cannot help us fight any of this.

Even among paranormal claims, there are many untestable ones as explained in the JREF Challenge FAQ. The challenge cannot help us fight those.

So I think you can make a good argument that the challenge is way too narrow to do much good on the overall critical thinking battlefront.

--Tim Farley

 

[Rob Lister]

I don't really understand Randi's reasons for discontinuing the Challenge. Yes, the million could be used elsewhere, but it's a huge draw...isn't it?

Indeed, it is the draw that put Randi on the map, no? Can he survive long-term without it?

Could be yes, could be no...could be he doesn't care.

I'm thinking...no, not unless he can come up with an equal or better publicity scheme. I'm not sure this forum meets that objective, and I know of no other initiative in the works.

 

[roger]

Where's the "I don't know" option? Not being 'cute' here, I think we'd be a lot more intellectually honest if we realized there's a whole host of things we don't know. I don't know the best way to run the JREF. I've thought about it a lot, met Randi (briefly), read this site daily, and JREF holds a dear place in my heart. But I am not involved enough in the day to day operations to say. Neither do we have detailed information on what will be done with the million.

Why not just say "I don't know"?

 

[colin]

As I said in the other thread: What else do they do? The JREF and MDC are, in my opinion, synonymous.

Even if they have great and wonderful ideas for the money, will they follow thru and do them? (Remember the last change?)

 

[sinclairmcevoy]

Perhaps if more people would take the challenge it would be kept.

 

[Rob Lister]

I'm reconsidering my initial opinion.

Technology is advancing at such a rate that the ability to pull off a win using new technology is becoming a substantial risk. A million doesn't buy what it once did but for sure it, along with the publicity that comes with it, would buy quite a lot. It's worth the risk to roll the dices.

Consider a simple test: two people (call them identical twins for promotional purposes) claim to be able to communicate telepathically if separated by no more than mere distance. Consider too that each of the two have a micro-burst transmitter implanted surgically somewhere within their body.

Sure, such a cheat would be suspected after they passed the initial test, but what would Randi have to require of them to continue on to the finial test? An MRI?

That's just one example, there are many.

Maybe now is the time.