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Split Thread WTC7 collapse (again) - split from: How did you rule out that 911 was an insid

You seem to have a real problem with loudness.

Your a one trick pony and you seem to think that the lack of accountability for explosive noise reports means there were no explosives.

So tell me how you expect these explosions to evidence themselves in an environment filled with prevailing noise from sirens, debris falls, buildings on fire, and all the other sounds a big city makes during an emergency like 9/11?

We can't rely on recording devices, though there are recordings of explosions. Microphones set to normal background audio levels are easily overwhelmed by a situation that raises ambient levels as high as they were in lower Manhattan on 9/11.

We can fall back on eyewitness testimony.

When we do, we get contradictory remembrances, and like the election of 2000, you can probably find more quotes for no explosions than you can for "yes I heard them".

This is really a fruitless quest. We have quite a quantity of testimony regarding WTC 1 & 2 for instance that cites a great deal of explosive activity yet that gets ignored here as well.

What's the point?

I have no evidence that you haven't been presented with.

I'm basically saying the required audio occurred to fit the controlled demolition and you are saying that because you saw the controlled demolition but didn't hear it, no such thing occurred.

Well we've all watched thoses numerous videos of buildings that have been brought down by controlled demolitions. One thing I've noticed is that prior to the event, it's usually very quiet. During the event, it's visually spectacular but the explosive sounds are largely muted inside the building since they are focused mostly at ground level near the core.

In lower Manhattan we have a wall of noise as a backdrop and a controlled demolition that doesn't want to be advertised as such. I'm suggesting your deafness is a result of background noise, stealth and maximum use of sound deadening controlled demolition technology.

Expense was not a consideration as it is with commercial controlled demolitions.

Anyone prepared to be involved in something as major as this were unhesitatingly prepared to pay any cost to get the best technology with the least conspicuous display.

Of course I don't expect you to agree with anything I've said for a moment, but you asked and I'm providing the best answer I can.

Wow.

I'll have to admit, that is a mighty impressive explanation for why there is no visible or audible evidence of detonation charges.

Here's another one: There were no detonation charges.

Notice how my explanation is much more succinct and doesn't require the use of technology that doesn't exist.

And MM, while you've got your "Space-Age Technologies only Found in Science Fiction Novels" handbook out, cross-reference these "sound deadening controlled demolition" devices you mention and let me know if they offer those in the "Able to Survive Impact with a Jet Airliner and Raging Fire" variety.

And while we're in Fantasy Land, would you be so kind as to entertain us with what I'm sure will be a lurid and rather complicated explanation as to why the Evil Forces behind this conspiracy bothered to crash airplanes into the WTC towers and demolish them via CD?

Why not just simply demolish them via CD and blame that on fictional terrorists? It would be a lot easier and would allow less opportunity for something to go wrong.

I anxiously await your reply. I'm sure it won't disappoint.
 
Yes. I'll go with 'there were no detonation charges', too.

Now MM is heading into Max Photon territory. Let's try to explain away show-stopper inconsistencies with his theory with super secret technology that he can't even show exists, more less was actually used.

A world view is a terrible thing to waste.
 
"And MM, while you've got your "Space-Age Technologies only Found in Science Fiction Novels" handbook out, cross-reference these "sound deadening controlled demolition" devices you mention and let me know if they offer those in the "Able to Survive Impact with a Jet Airliner and Raging Fire" variety."

Please don't forget to include the mystery explosives that don't leave a nitrate signature or require any of those pesky non-exploding components that are always left behind after a regular CD.
I'd really like to hear about that.
 
Wow.

I'll have to admit, that is a mighty impressive explanation for why there is no visible or audible evidence of detonation charges.

Here's another one: There were no detonation charges.

Notice how my explanation is much more succinct and doesn't require the use of technology that doesn't exist.


Sounds like Miragememories is channeling his fellow twoofer, LastChild, who had his butt handed to him on another thread recently after making the same ridiculous claims that microphones couldn't pick up the sound and that sirens drowned out the sounds of demolition charges.

Astoundingly lame, even for Miragememories.
 
Yes yes I have a dictionary. I know the traditional definition of what a squib is.
Then why not use the proper terminology?

You seem to have a real problem with loudness.
The problem is yours. Explosives make noise. Powerful explosives make a really loud noise. You cannot hand waive that basic fact out of existence.

They also have distinct physical effects too, such as the blast wave. You can't hand waive that out of existence either.

Your a one trick pony and you seem to think that the lack of accountability for explosive noise reports means there were no explosives.
You're dancing but not going anywhere. The fact remains: Powerful explosives make a really loud noise. You cannot hand waive that basic fact out of existence.

They also have distinct physical effects too, such as the blast wave. You can't hand waive that out of existence either.

So tell me how you expect these explosions to evidence themselves in an environment filled with prevailing noise from sirens, debris falls, buildings on fire, and all the other sounds a big city makes during an emergency like 9/11?
Because demolition charges are VERY LOUD and thus would easily be heard and recorded above any other noise. Try watching some legitimate videos of controlled demolitions and this basic fact is easily observable. You cannot hand waive it out of existence.

We can't rely on recording devices, though there are recordings of explosions. Microphones set to normal background audio levels are easily overwhelmed by a situation that raises ambient levels as high as they were in lower Manhattan on 9/11.
Are you seriously trying to claim that a very loud noise would magically not be recorded by a microphone? Really? Then might you explain why the sounds of the jets impacting the tower and exploding were recorded? How come those sounds are present and yet powerful explosives used to demolish a building are not?

The resident audio experts will be along shortly to correct your misunderstanding of how microphones work.

When we do, we get contradictory remembrances, and like the election of 2000, you can probably find more quotes for no explosions than you can for "yes I heard them".
Actually, you get most saying they heard something which sounded like an explosion. Remember analogies?

This is really a fruitless quest. We have quite a quantity of testimony regarding WTC 1 & 2 for instance that cites a great deal of explosive activity yet that gets ignored here as well.
As has been pointed out around here innumerable times, there were plenty of ordinary things in the WTC buildings which could explode as the buildings collapsed. But none of these are explosive demolition charges, which are something else entirely different, with the physical aspects of them (i.e. loudness of the sound, flashes of light, and blast wave effects) that are NOT present.

You cannot hand waive these basic facts out of existence as much as you would like to.

Well we've all watched thoses numerous videos of buildings that have been brought down by controlled demolitions. One thing I've noticed is that prior to the event, it's usually very quiet. During the event, it's visually spectacular but the explosive sounds are largely muted inside the building since they are focused mostly at ground level near the core.
You either have really bad hearing or you've got the volume turned way down. Also, the explosives go off BEFORE the building collapses, NOT during the collapse. After all, it is the detonation of the explosives which causes the collapse. Once the building is collapsing, why would you need any more explosives?

In lower Manhattan we have a wall of noise as a backdrop and a controlled demolition that doesn't want to be advertised as such. I'm suggesting your deafness is a result of background noise, stealth and maximum use of sound deadening controlled demolition technology.
Then explain why the sound of the aircraft impacting the buildings and exploding were clearly heard by folks in the area and clearly recorded by the many cameras in the area.

So the jets exploding are not masked by other sounds and such but many demolition charges are?
 
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I already work for a major broadcaster ...



Ah, yes. The "major broadcaster" whose hard-hitting lineup is:


06:00 AM
  • Sagwa: The Chinese Siamese Cat 6 :02 AM
  • Cotoons 6 :17 AM
06:30 AM
  • Timothy Goes to School 6 :30 AM
  • Gisele's Big Backyard 6 :45 AM
07:00 AM
  • Arthur 7 :00 AM
07:30 AM
  • Word World 7 :30 AM
  • Ellen's Acres 7 :42 AM
  • Yoko! Jakamoko! Toto! 7 :54 AM
08:00 AM
  • Hi-5 8 :00 AM
08:30 AM
  • The Wonder Pets 8 :30 AM
  • Dive, Olly, Dive 8 :42 AM
  • Tigga and Togga 8 :55 AM
09:00 AM
  • Dora the Explorer 9 :00 AM
  • Peppa Pig 9 :23 AM
09:30 AM
  • Little Princess 9 :30 AM
  • Sagwa: The Chinese Siamese Cat 9 :42 AM
  • Animal Alphabet 9 :55 AM
10:00 AM
  • Zoboomafoo 10 :00 AM
10:30 AM
  • Mama Mirabelle's Home Movies 10 :31 AM
  • Word World 10 :44 AM
11:00 AM
  • Peep and the Big Wide World 11 :00 AM
  • Tigga and Togga 11 :22 AM
11:30 AM
  • Jack's Big Music Show 11 :30 AM
12:00 PM
  • Bob the Builder 12 :00 PM
  • Mighty Machines 12 :23 PM
12:30 PM
  • Arthur 12 :30 PM
  • This Is Daniel Cook 12 :54 PM
01:00 PM
  • The Adventures of Paddington Bear 1 :00 PM
  • Yoko! Jakamoko! Toto! 1 :24 PM
01:30 PM
  • Timothy Goes to School 1 :30 PM
  • Rupert Bear: Follow the Magic 1 :45 PM
02:00 PM
  • Mustard Pancakes 2 :00 PM
02:30 PM
  • Bali 2 :30 PM
  • Cotoons 2 :42 PM
  • Gisele's Big Backyard 2 :50 PM
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  • Peep and the Big Wide World 3 :01 PM
  • Thomas the Tank Engine 3 :23 PM
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  • Timothy Goes to School 3 :31 PM
  • Little Princess 3 :47 PM
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  • Word World 4 :00 PM
  • Dive, Olly, Dive 4 :15 PM
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  • Clifford the Big Red Dog 4 :30 PM
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  • Ellen's Acres 5 :00 PM
  • Miss BG 5 :12 PM
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  • Arthur 5 :30 PM
  • Wazooo! What a Zoo! 5 :54 PM
06:00 PM
  • Fetch! with Ruff Ruffman 6 :00 PM
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  • George Shrinks 6 :30 PM
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  • The Museum 7 :00 PM
  • Taking Care of the Past 1 of 10
07:30 PM
  • The Museum 7 :30 PM
  • Bodies of Knowledge 2 of 10
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08:30 PM
  • The Agenda with Steve Paikin 8 :00 PM
  • The Best of The Agenda
09:00 PM
09:30 PM
  • Midsomer Murders 9 :00 PM
  • Ghosts of Christmas Past 2 of 2
  • TVFH Producer Shorts 9 :52 PM
  • Episode 24
10:00 PM
10:30 PM
  • Monarchy 10 :00 PM
  • Empire
11:00 PM
11:30 PM
  • The Agenda with Steve Paikin 11 :00 PM
  • The Best of The Agenda
12:00 AM
12:30 AM
  • Midsomer Murders 12 :00 AM
  • Ghosts of Christmas Past 2 of 2
  • TVFH Producer Shorts 12 :50 AM
  • Episode 24
01:00 AM
01:30 AM
  • Monarchy 1 :00 AM
  • Empire
02:00 AM
  • The Museum 2 :00 AM
  • Taking Care of the Past 1 of 10
02:30 AM
  • The Museum 2 :30 AM
  • Bodies of Knowledge 2 of 10
03:00 AM
03:30 AM
  • Rosemary and Thyme 3 :00 AM
  • Up the Garden Path
  • Rosemary and Thyme 3 :47 AM
  • Agua Cadaver
Absolutely riveting. :rolleyes:
 
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[B said:
Miragememories][/b]
In lower Manhattan we have a wall of noise as a backdrop and a controlled demolition that doesn't want to be advertised as such. I'm suggesting your deafness is a result of background noise, stealth and maximum use of sound deadening controlled demolition technology.


Then explain why the sound of the aircraft impacting the buildings and exploding were clearly heard by folks in the area and clearly recorded by the many cameras in the area.

So the jets exploding are not masked by other sounds and such but many demolition charges are?

I would certainly expect the sound of plane crashes to be heard, especially since it was a normal NYC day until they occurred.

Noise from column removal technology (thermite cutters and/or explosives) deep within the building at it's core are more likely to be masked and blended with all the other sound generated in the area.

MM
 
I would certainly expect the sound of plane crashes to be heard, especially since it was a normal NYC day until they occurred.

Noise from column removal technology (thermite cutters and/or explosives) deep within the building at it's core are more likely to be masked and blended with all the other sound generated in the area.

MM

As others have already pointed out- this is a ridiculous assertion.

I suppose asking for you to prove this statement is a fruitless endeavor.

We'll just put it in the pile marked "Amazing Contradictions from MM" and hope that God picked an ugly puppy this time.
 
Let's be precise. You are terrified of any well-informed rationalist who can expose the baseless rubbish you peddle.

Would you really know a "well-informed rationalist who can expose the baseless rubbish" if you met one?

Certainly I would be terrified to appear in front of a large TV audience on a well respected show.

Since your show is virtually unknown, to anybody, my feeling would be more embarrassment than terror if I was to make an appearance.

Maybe when you re-run this;
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000HFZCLK/

MM
 
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Would you really know a "well-informed rationalist who can expose the baseless rubbish" if you met one?

Certainly I would be terrified to appear in front of a large TV audience on a well respected show.

Since your show is virtually unknown, to anybody, my feeling would be more embarrassment than terror if I was to make an appearance.

MM

Which you would be able to make up by giving your opponent a pounding, right?

Come on, MM- no one buys this crap. You're not important enough to look down on shows which are far more popular than you.

All you're doing is trying to push Ron's buttons- and I'm pretty sure it's not going to work. More importantly, it shows that you are capable of recognizing that you're a fraud- maybe just not capable of admitting it.

It's ok- it's a step in the right direction.
 
Would you really know a "well-informed rationalist who can expose the baseless rubbish" if you met one?

Certainly I would be terrified to appear in front of a large TV audience on a well respected show.

Since your show is virtually unknown, to anybody, my feeling would be more embarrassment than terror if I was to make an appearance.

Maybe when you re-run this;
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000HFZCLK/

MM

(emphasis added)

True, his show is virtually unknown within the general population. However, it's quite well known within the 911 CT population what with some of it's well known "leaders" having already participated on the show. Given that, I suspect your level of terror associated with appearing on the show with someone like Gravy is more attributed to the embarrassment those former guests endured from their ... ahem ... "participation".
 
I would certainly expect the sound of plane crashes to be heard, especially since it was a normal NYC day until they occurred.

Noise from column removal technology (thermite cutters and/or explosives) deep within the building at it's core are more likely to be masked and blended with all the other sound generated in the area.

MM

So did this 'wall of noise' only come into being after Flight 175 crashed?

Here's a video a fair old distance from the scene. Sound delay is 4/5 seconds. There's certainly a wall of noise there, yet we still hear the explosion:
 
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Speculation on a sharp angle image as to what is occurring. Obviously the building, other than the penthouses is still there. The squibs are real enough and I have little doubt they were occurring before and during global collapse.



Okay I concede that global collapse was in it's initial stages. Nothing you have said proves the squibs I referred to or those that appear on the north face were "puffs of dust"!

Given how dark they are, how large they are, how rapidly they formed, and the relatively slow dropping speed of WTC7 at that early stage, demolitions would seem to provide a far more plausible explanation than air pushed out from floors that haven't yet dropped on top of floors.

MM

The squibs 'peak' after the entire building starts to move down though. 911myths clearly shows this. Of course, we still have to wonder why these explosives were in such a bizarre, pointless location.
 
Your quite right Toto.

Ron does have a lot of buttons.

MM

Well "your" shooting yourself in the foot.

Whether Ron "has a lot of buttons" or not is clearly not the issue of this thread- and it has nothing to do with the weakness of your position.

Now that we've established that you're terrified of being held accountable to your position in a more public sphere, perhaps we can explore why you're terrified.

I suggest you get back to the topic and try and resolve the multitude of contradictions present in your statements. I am sure that by attempting to resolve these- we can work out the why during the process.

Start with the very first contradiction- the one this thread was started on: How can you concede to Jowenko's "expertise" at will? It's a self-defeating concept.

If- on the other hand- you simply agree with his argument, then his "expertise" is irrelevant. If you agree with his evidence, then you're still stuck in a contradiction: partly because he has none, but also because based on the "evidence" he concluded that 1 and 2 could not possibly have been a controlled demolition.

Ready. Set. Go.
 

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