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Legge/Szamboti: Sudden Collapse Initiation was Impossible

Quick side-note on that link. There is also a video there of the aftermath of a car driving into a restaraunt. A cop describes it as sounding like "a bomb going off."
Something to add to that might be that many folks' expectations of what an explosion (or gunshot or many other things) sounds like is conditioned by what they've seen in movies and TV shows. After all, how many people have had the chance to hear real explosions or real firearms?

The real sound of an explosion or gunshot can be quite different.
 
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http://rapidshare.com/files/80160735/911.wtc.2.demolition.headon.avi.html

The Rumbling starts at 0.8 seconds (0.77 seconds precisely) for which I used a wave editor. Assuming the camera is about 344 meter away (a very conservative estimation) the 1 second sound delay when corrected should start even before the first frame of the video. In order to determine if the top section has already fallen on the next floor I used an other (and another) video, that one didn't contain sound except a narrator, I looked at the first row of 'squibs' and some pieces of debris that have fallen in order to sync them.

8fw9m5c.jpg


Now they are synced in time and we can use the 2nd (soundless) video which we have to shift back 1.9+0.2 seconds in time

82nazgj.jpg


Now judge for yourself, do we have a rumbling that is proportional with the velocity ? Do we have rumble ~ v(t) ~ sound escaped air pressed out by falling floors ? The damned top section even didn't move.
 
The Rumbling starts at 0.8 seconds (0.77 seconds precisely) for which I used a wave editor.
So your demolition theory requires explosives that sound like "rumbling" when they go off. What kind of explosives do this?
 
I hope beachnut can tell something about the expected chance.


You are, as you surely must know, asking an idle question about the probability that this or that random object will survive a massive impact. You are tap dancing. The fantasy you are wedded to has no basis in reality so you are reduced to desperately searching for an anomaly, however insignificant, that might keep your silly illusions alive.

Once the passport survived, the probability that it would survive became 1. Prior to the crash event, the probability was unknowable.
 
So your demolition theory requires explosives that sound like "rumbling" when they go off. What kind of explosives do this?


After listening to an endless succession of unimaginative variations on the same theme, I think I share the frustration of all rationalists on this forum.

Will ONE of you frauds kindly explain why no explosions were heard BEFORE the Towers collapsed?

It's a bit tiresome to hear ignoramuses pretend that charges were going off AS the buildings fell.

WE ALL GET THE IDEA THAT DEMOLITIONS DON'T WORK LIKE THAT.
 
After listening to an endless succession of unimaginative variations on the same theme, I think I share the frustration of all rationalists on this forum.

Will ONE of you frauds kindly explain why no explosions were heard BEFORE the Towers collapsed?

It's a bit tiresome to hear ignoramuses pretend that charges were going off AS the buildings fell.

WE ALL GET THE IDEA THAT DEMOLITIONS DON'T WORK LIKE THAT.

But that's the beauty of being a truther. All you have to do is declare that 'They' must have used non-traditional and highly-advanced demolition techniques, and all is well. After all, if they made it look like a CD, the jig would be up.

Oh, wait. The argument is that it was obviously a CD by looking at the collapse. Crap.

Never mind.
 
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Oh yeah sirens drown out explosions. what an effin idiot.

explosions create sound waves. no sound waves no explosions. only a fool would claim that Manhattan is too noisy an environment to discern explosions. On the fourth many years ago I heard fireworks going off on a barge on the east river north of the brooklyn bridge as i was trying to reach that area from the west side of Manhattan on the Hudson.
 
But that's the beauty of being a truther. All you have to do is declare that 'They' must have used non-traditional and highly-advanced demolition techniques, and all is well. After all, if they made it look like a CD, the jig would be up.

Oh, wait. The argument is that it was obviously a CD by looking at the collapse. Crap.

Never mind.

Yes, but you're making a joke that shows you to be intelligent, sane, and adept at logical thinking. The loons really argue that the collapses were CDs because they look like CDs and they were CDs because they were disguised not to look like CDs. This is their actual position and they see no contradiction. The world of the fantasist is a world without irony.
 
Yes, but you're making a joke that shows you to be intelligent, sane, and adept at logical thinking. The loons really argue that the collapses were CDs because they look like CDs and they were CDs because they were disguised not to look like CDs. This is their actual position and they see no contradiction. The world of the fantasist is a world without irony.

Many truthers are too lazy for that; all they have to do in their mind is claim that the collapses were impossible without CD. The rest of it is irrelevant. They don't even have to prove the collapses actually were impossible, all they have to do is ask questions.

They don't need explanations. The same argument is used with the cell phone calls. All they think they have to do is claim they were impossible and they were automatically all faked. Makes no difference how 'They' did it.

Reverse-engineered alien technology. HAARP. Space-based mind control weapons. flying Unicorns Of Death. Who knows what the diabolical Powers That Be have up their sleeves?

It must be fun being a truther.
 
Something to add to that might be that many folks' expectations of what an explosion (or gunshot or many other things) sounds like is conditioned by what they've seen in movies and TV shows. After all, how many people have had the chance to hear real explosions or real firearms?

I have fired a few thousand rounds of various calibers of ammo in my life, andcould tell the difference between fire crackers and a .22lr or .38 spl.

I have also seen C-4 charges being set off, heard artillery fire from within a a couple hundred yards on either end of the trajectory and lobbed a few grenades just for drill, and I have seen buildings burn to the ground without collapsing, and I have seen roofs fall in on otherwise salvageable structure. I used to think it the most fun way to spend a Sunday morning to grab a charge foam line and walk into 5000 of burning JP-4 just for the training.

I am amazed at the kinds of background noises and odd flickers at the corner of a low-res monitor the twoofers will link with any of these phenomena.

Oy!
 
Many truthers are too lazy for that; all they have to do in their mind is claim that the collapses were impossible without CD. The rest of it is irrelevant. They don't even have to prove the collapses actually were impossible, all they have to do is ask questions.

They don't need explanations. The same argument is used with the cell phone calls. All they think they have to do is claim they were impossible and they were automatically all faked. Makes no difference how 'They' did it.

Reverse-engineered alien technology. HAARP. Space-based mind control weapons. flying Unicorns Of Death. Who knows what the diabolical Powers That Be have up their sleeves?

It must be fun being a truther.
The 9/11 CTists believes, first and formost, that 9/11 was an "inside job". The details aren't that important, they are malleable.

They know the answer, how you arrive at it doesn't matter.

As for if it's fun. For some I'm sure it is, for others, I think it's a very sad world in which they live.
 
Indeed, but the words on the paper are nonsense written by fools.

What's wrong with, and I quote:

"It appears therefore that the official concept of a free fall collapse of the upper portion through the initiation storey, due to heat effects from fire, is a fantasy. If the temperature did become high enough for collapse to occur it could not have happened in the observed manner. In particular it could not have been sudden and thus could not have produced the velocity, and hence the momentum and kinetic energy, upon which the official story depends for the second stage of collapse. In contrast, all observations are in accord with the use of explosives in a timed sequence."

Many steel structure buildings have been on fire and in most such events everything has burnt except the steel structure itself that afterwards look like a skeleton. Actually a steel structure building often consist only of 10% steel and the rest is concrete, gypsym, glass, cables, pipes, vent ducts, insulation, furniture, etc., the latter being pulverized by the heat unless it is consumed by the fire. If the steel structure skeleton was subject to compressive loads during the fire you may also see that it has deformed locally, slowly, ... but never suddenly collapsed ... with almost free fall velocity through totally intact structure.
Simply speaking the WTCs were much too strongly built to allow any collapse under any circumstances due to release of its inherent potential energy. So extra energy must have been introduced and it seems to have been released very suddenly ... and not only inside the so called initiation zone but in other locations.
 
What's wrong with, and I quote:

"It appears therefore that the official concept of a free fall collapse of the upper portion through the initiation storey, due to heat effects from fire, is a fantasy. If the temperature did become high enough for collapse to occur it could not have happened in the observed manner. In particular it could not have been sudden and thus could not have produced the velocity, and hence the momentum and kinetic energy, upon which the official story depends for the second stage of collapse. In contrast, all observations are in accord with the use of explosives in a timed sequence."

Many steel structure buildings have been on fire and in most such events everything has burnt except the steel structure itself that afterwards look like a skeleton. Actually a steel structure building often consist only of 10% steel and the rest is concrete, gypsym, glass, cables, pipes, vent ducts, insulation, furniture, etc., the latter being pulverized by the heat unless it is consumed by the fire. If the steel structure skeleton was subject to compressive loads during the fire you may also see that it has deformed locally, slowly, ... but never suddenly collapsed ... with almost free fall velocity through totally intact structure.
Simply speaking the WTCs were much too strongly built to allow any collapse under any circumstances due to release of its inherent potential energy. So extra energy must have been introduced and it seems to have been released very suddenly ... and not only inside the so called initiation zone but in other locations.
Oops, you are wrong. BTW, WTC was just steel (the part that holds up the WTC). How does if feel to be wrong? I mean, you are so wrong it is funny. Why are you a failure on 9/11 topics?
 
Once the passport survived, the probability that it would survive became 1. Prior to the crash event, the probability was unknowable.
I know how it is defined, it is a ratio isn't it? In the limit of high numbers it should give a reliable estimation of the chance, which can be used to calculate the chance for a new similar situation, that's how insurance companies work.

Twin, Pom, AW,

I try to imagine how this fits with the crush-down crush-up model and believe I even didn't mention the word explosives in this thread.
 
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I have fired a few thousand rounds of various calibers of ammo in my life, and could tell the difference between fire crackers and a .22lr or .38 spl.

I have also seen C-4 charges being set off, heard artillery fire from within a a couple hundred yards on either end of the trajectory and lobbed a few grenades just for drill, and I have seen buildings burn to the ground without collapsing, and I have seen roofs fall in on otherwise salvageable structure.
You're definitely the exception in that regard. I would think a great many folks have never heard those things firsthand like you have. I certainly never have.

Which leads me to my question: when you see those same things depicted in a TV show or movie, do they sound anything at all like they really do in person? I'm willing to bet the answer is, in the vast majority of instances, no.
 
Oops, you are wrong. BTW, WTC was just steel (the part that holds up the WTC). How does if feel to be wrong? I mean, you are so wrong it is funny. Why are you a failure on 9/11 topics?

Actually WTC was only 20% steel, half of which was in the columns - the parts that hold up the whole thing. The rest, 80%, was mostly concrete in the floors, a little furniture/fittings on the floors and glass in the windows, etc. The information in my article is not wrong at all so I feel pretty happy with it, so far. Point out some errors in the article and I will become even more happy. You sound so unhappy yourself. Are you well?
 
I even didn't mention the word explosives in this thread.
No, you claimed to have heard "rumbling" that started before the collapses. Clearly, you think this rumbling is some sort of explosive. So I'll ask again - what kind of explosives goes "rumble" instead of "kaboom"?
 
Actually WTC was only 20% steel, half of which was in the columns - the parts that hold up the whole thing. The rest, 80%, was mostly concrete in the floors, a little furniture/fittings on the floors and glass in the windows, etc. The information in my article is not wrong at all so I feel pretty happy with it, so far. Point out some errors in the article and I will become even more happy. You sound so unhappy yourself. Are you well?
Abslolute nonsense. 100% of the structural support of the WTC was steel. Perhaps you have a reading comprehension problem, or are you really claiming that the floors, windows, and furniture held the building up? :rolleyes:
 

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