I need all debunkers I can get!

[MIKILLINI]

Welcome to the forum, Lennart. You came to the right place to find those who Debunk!!

 

[Panoply_Prefect]

HEIWA went public yesterday:

http://heiwaco.tripod.com/nist.htm

/S

 

[Lennart Hyland]

Heiwa wants us/somebody to explain why WTC collapsed in around 11s and why it the rest of the tower broke into > 1.000.000 pieces

He also claims to have read the NIST report to find these answeres, but according to him it only explains that when steel buckles or breaks it releases potential energy and the abscence of the building's strength lead to global collapse.

And when he ask NIST, they only tell him that no steelcolumn buckled/broke but instead the floor fell down.

I think he is lying

(My english is preatty bad too)

 

[AZCat]

Happy Solstice!

But how can a day be the shortest day when they are all 24 hours long?

You are assuming they are 24 hours long. In reality, the NWO sneaks into your house when you are asleep and resets all the timers to fake a 24 hour day. This is part of a project to hide the fact that days have been getting shorter over the last six years (we're down to about 22 hours now), ever since the NWO initiated their "Plan for a New Pearl Harbor". This includes time theft - all those missing hours they've stolen from you (and others) are being sold to the Raelians at a discount in order to fund the NWO's new hyperspace bypass.

 

[Hokulele]

Wouldn't March 11 have been the shortest day this year? Well, for mainland US residents outside of Arizona.

 

[AZCat]

Wouldn't March 11 have been the shortest day this year? Well, for mainland US residents outside of Arizona.

Is that the day when the rest of the contiguous U.S. goes crazy? Yeah, then you are correct - 23 < 24.

 

[leftysergeant]

Welcome aboard, Lennart. And don't worry about your English, it's probably far better than my German, and I wouldn't even attempt to write anything in Swedish. (Actually, your English is far better than what I have seen most twoofers manage.)

And don't let it bother you if we sometimes take a thread like yours off into a comedy routine. It doesn't mean that we don't take you seriously. After you wade around in stupid long enough, you have to stop and puurge the mind or you'll go nuts. I saw the same thing a lot as a fire fighter.

We arent actually daft.

Yet, any way.
Most of us.....
What are you looking at?

 

[WilliamSeger]

I'm not a structural engineer (although I worked as a structural draftsman for five years), but this analysis is littered with inaccuracies that don't require an engineering degree to spot. But there isn't much point in detailing them when there is one glaring fault that invalidates the entire thing: As Gravy pointed out, Heiwa seems to be completely oblivious to the well-documented fact that the columns were bending inward well before the collapse. This is by no means a minor detail; Heiwa analysis is perfectly pointless if it ignores what we definitely know about how the collapse began. The most logical and plausible theory is that the sagging floors were pulling the columns inward, but since the bending extended over a greater height than one floor, there can be no doubt that the columns couldn't possibly have bent like that if the floors were intact and doing their job of bracing the columns against buckling. (The inaccuracy of Heiwa's analysis of columns buckling between floors doesn't matter much when we know that's not what happened!) Once the columns were bent that far, theoretical buckling calculations based on cross-sections and slenderness ratios were completely irrelevant. By the time the catastrophic buckling began, some columns were bent so much that the axis of the vertical loading was several feet outside the column cross-section.

Heiwa makes a fairly lame effort to minimize the effects of heat in all of that (e.g. completely ignoring viscoplastic buckling which happens at relatively low temperatures if the steel is under stress), but then wants to ignore that neither explosives nor thermite nor Death Star beam weapons nor mini-nukes nor any other "truther" theory yet devised can explain what we can clearly see in the collapse initiation. In short, he would have us reject a perfectly logical and plausible theory without offering any plausible alternative. Given the implausibility of the underlying premise -- that the alleged "false-flaggers" would decide to stage an incredibly elaborate and risky hoax instead of, say, just blowing up something and blaming it on terrorists -- Heiwa needs to do much better than that.

 

[Heiwa]

I note that my article at http://heiwaco.tripod.com/nist.htm has been studied with interest by commentators above. The article is of course intended for children so it is clear why most of you have missed the points.

Anyway - NIST suggests in its report that the potential energy of the mass above the initiation zone was released (columns buckled there at abt floor 94) and because it exceeded the strain energy of the structure (below I assume), global collapse ensued.

Looking at WTC1 it seems that the first item to drop down is the mast on the roof. As there was no mass above the mast and no potential energy released there, logically it seems that the roof fell in or the mast dropped through the roof. No big deal - if the mast then fell through a lift shaft, it would just drop down to the bottom of the shaft. Or if it hit a floor below, it would just punch a hole in it.

Abt 2/10 of a second after the mast dropped there seems to be an explosion at floor level 94 apparently caused by the mass above dropping down a little.

NIST suggests it is like a hammer (mass above) hitting a nail (structure below). Very good! Say there are five nails - four wall 'nails' and one core 'nail'. I can only see one wall 'nail' and what impresses me is, that, when the hammer falls due to gravity on the nail (I cannot see any hammer, but anyway), the nail is broken - not in one place but in two (!) places - and that the nail piece in between is thrown outwards at high speed. This happens 2/10 seconds after the mast started to drop.

This is quite magical and I have never been able to recreate such a feat - hit a nail with a hammer and the nail breaks at two (!) locations and the piece in between flies out sideways.

Anyway, it seems NIST has abandoned the hammer/nail theory in their FAQ update December 2007. Now instead it is 11 or 6 complete floors above floor 94 that suddeanly drops down on floor 94 and overloads it so that it drops down on floor 93 that drops down on floor 92 .... that drops down on floor 50 ... that drops down on floor 1 and then hits the ground. Very good! It is not clear why 6 or 11 floors suddenly dropped down but it is clear that the roof didn't fall down, so why did the mast fall?

Don't worry, don't panick, do not wet your trousers, the answer will be provided in due course. Just calm down. Everything will be OK.

 

[A W Smith]

what evidence do you have that the radio/TV tower fell first?
I cant see it falling faster or first by any significance in any videos. Most videos I have seen are from the north.

 

[leftysergeant]

It is not clear why 6 or 11 floors suddenly dropped down but it is clear that the roof didn't fall down, so why did the mast fall?

Actually, the members that supported the roof failed before the antenna started moving, and thew roof itself contributed to the destruction of everything beneath it. You just aren't looking at the structure as built or the damage done to the core columns.

Don't worry, don't panick, do not wet your trousers, the answer will be provided in due course. Just calm down. Everything will be OK.

It really isn't very gopod reasoning to call us imature and then base so many of your positions on an over-simplified, perhaps simplistic, vision of what happened.

 

[Heiwa]

Keep it simple so that a child understands

It really isn't very gopod reasoning to call us imature and then base so many of your positions on an over-simplified, perhaps simplistic, vision of what happened.

Well - what do you say about the intellectual level of most comments above? High, medium, low ... or worse? My audience is children and for that the best and only position is to be simple for easy understanding. Some adults like it too ... they start to understand how they were fooled by the 911 Commission and NIST.

 

[Heiwa]

what evidence do you have that the radio/TV tower fell first?
I cant see it falling faster or first by any significance in any videos. Most videos I have seen are from the north.

Look carefully!

 

[twinstead]

Well - what do you say about the intellectual level of most comments above? High, medium, low ... or worse? My audience is children and for that the best and only position is to be simple for easy understanding. Some adults like it too ... they start to understand how they were fooled by the 911 Commission and NIST.

It appears that experts from around the world were fooled by the 911 commission and NIST. So many experts, in fact, that if you are right either there's a HUGE conspiracy among building experts, or way too many structural engineers are incompetent.

This is BIG news. Have you notified any news outlets that may want a run for the Pulitzer Prize?

 

[WilliamSeger]

Looking at WTC1 it seems that the first item to drop down is the mast on the roof. As there was no mass above the mast and no potential energy released there, logically it seems that the roof fell in or the mast dropped through the roof. No big deal - if the mast then fell through a lift shaft, it would just drop down to the bottom of the shaft. Or if it hit a floor below, it would just punch a hole in it.

Nope, the antenna didn't drop first.

Photographic and videographic records were reviewed to identify structurally-related events. Where possible, all four faces of a building were examined for a given event or time period to provide complete understanding of the building response. Observations from a single vantage point can be misleading and may result in incorrect interpretation of events. For instance, photographic and videographic records taken from due north of the WTC 1 collapse appeared to indicate that the antenna was sinking into the roof (McAllister 2002). When records from east and west vantage points were viewed, it was apparent that the building section above the impact area tilted to the south as the building collapsed." (NIST 2005)

NIST suggests it is like a hammer (mass above) hitting a nail (structure below). Very good! Say there are five nails - four wall 'nails' and one core 'nail'. I can only see one wall 'nail' and what impresses me is, that, when the hammer falls due to gravity on the nail (I cannot see any hammer, but anyway), the nail is broken - not in one place but in two (!) places - and that the nail piece in between is thrown outwards at high speed. This happens 2/10 seconds after the mast started to drop.

This is quite magical and I have never been able to recreate such a feat - hit a nail with a hammer and the nail breaks at two (!) locations and the piece in between flies out sideways.

Look up the word "analogy." Analogies can be useful, unless you try to carry them too far.

It is not clear why 6 or 11 floors suddenly dropped down but it is clear that the roof didn't fall down, so why did the mast fall?

Really? It's pretty to me why 11 floors suddenly dropped: the perimeter columns buckled on one side, followed by a rapid horizontal progressive failure.

Don't worry, don't panick, do not wet your trousers, the answer will be provided in due course. Just calm down. Everything will be OK.

At least you're entertaining.

 

[Jonnyclueless]

Look carefully!

I think he forgot to mention taking some kind of hallucinogenic prior to looking.

 

[Heiwa]

It's pretty to me why 11 floors suddenly dropped: the perimeter columns buckled on one side, followed by a rapid horizontal progressive failure.

Aha - 59 columns buckled simultaneously (one wall). I didn't see that. And then more magic - horizontal progressive failure! By gravity. Does it mean that 11 floors were detached from the other three walls + the core? Plenty of bolts shearing off for that.

And then 11 floors dropped down. Of course.

Why didn't I think about that?

You are a genious. Thanks a lot. Nobel prize coming up!

 

[Heiwa]

Nope, the antenna didn't drop first.

So NIST suggests that the WTC1 top part tilted before collapse ensued and that the videos showing the mast dropping first is some sort of illusion - due to the tilting of the roof.
But if the top part tilted - why isn't the mast tilting? It is upright on all videos from all directions.

 

[Kage]

Do you have any pictures to support this? This is totally novel and I'd love to see something that supports your assertions.

Understand that nitpicking over the collapse still leaves little to no possibility of a conspiracy, given how completely insane such a conspiracy would have to be. Go ahead. Show us what you have got.

SN Kage, USN

 

[A W Smith]

So NIST suggests that the WTC1 top part tilted before collapse ensued and that the videos showing the mast dropping first is some sort of illusion - due to the tilting of the roof.
But if the top part tilted - why isn't the mast tilting? It is upright on all videos from all directions.

I think hallucination is the word you are looking for, Because no matter how many animated gifs troofers make or hash marks on Etienne's film . I just don't see it.