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Bye, Bye, Fermilab

Last I heard, the top quark was discovered back in 95 at Fermilab with the tevatron. They're definitely still looking for the God Particle though.
 
ma1ic3 said:
Last I heard, the top quark was discovered back in 95 at Fermilab with the tevatron. They're definitely still looking for the God Particle though.
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Higgs Boson, the Tevatron will not be useful for this, though, even if the LHC will.
May 2008 will be the day, if they do not push the date back again.
I just hope that that day wll not be the last one, though..
http://motls.blogspot.com/2006/10/man-made-black-holes.html
 
ma1ic3 said:
Last I heard, the top quark was discovered back in 95 at Fermilab with the tevatron. They're definitely still looking for the God Particle though.
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Whatever.

The question is, 'what good is it?'

Answer....? Not much. What can we expect from funding Fermi? At least a little. We get really, really smart guys with a sense of a purpose (for small values of purpose). They may eventually be useful, though for what we do not know.
 
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Rob Lister said:
Whatever.
The question is, 'what good is it?'
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And what good is this profit thing you are so fond of?

We should reinstate full taxes on the profits of hedge fund managers to pay for basic scientific research.

ETA: There are plenty of resources in this world to feed, shelter, clothe and educate the world population. The only thing standing in the way is greed. Get rid of the greedy and we can feed the needy.
 
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Rob Lister said:
Whatever.

The question is, 'what good is it?'

Answer....? Not much. What can we expect from funding Fermi? At least a little. We get really, really smart guys with a sense of a purpose (for small values of purpose). They may eventually be useful, though for what we do not know.
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The advances in science that come from publicly funded labs like Fermilab may not show up in commerce for decades. Solutions that lab scientists develop in the process of doing this basic research may have more immediate application.

You are using an example at this moment. HTML protocol and web browsers were invented by Tim Berners-Lee to document the complex systems required to run the particle accelerator at CERN.
 
Kestrel said:
You are using an example at this moment. HTML protocol and web browsers were invented by Tim Berners-Lee to document the complex systems required to run the particle accelerator at CERN.
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Good example!

Just because a lab doesn't produce commercializable results year in and year out doesn't mean it shouldn't be funded. Figuring out the difference between a potentially useful place like Fermilab or CERN and a useless lab like PEAR can be more difficult.

Minor nit: HTML is the markup language used in conjunction with CSS to generate web pages. HTTP is the protocol used between the browser and the server to get the HTML to your computer.

"Basic research is what I am doing when I don't know what I am doing." (Attributed to Verner von Braun.)
 
Blue Mountain said:
Good example!

Just because a lab doesn't produce commercializable results year in and year out doesn't mean it shouldn't be funded. Figuring out the difference between a potentially useful place like Fermilab or CERN and a useless lab like PEAR can be more difficult.

Minor nit: HTML is the markup language used in conjunction with CSS to generate web pages. HTTP is the protocol used between the browser and the server to get the HTML to your computer.
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You are correct. I intended to type HTTP.
 
DanishDynamite said:
Let me get this straight: Fermilab has been shut down?
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No but the funding cut means that it is unlikely to play a significant role in high enerygy phyisics past 2008. To an extent not totaly insane if the US were to buy into CERN or the japenese program.
 
Blue Mountain said:
Good example!

Just because a lab doesn't produce commercializable results year in and year out doesn't mean it shouldn't be funded. Figuring out the difference between a potentially useful place like Fermilab or CERN and a useless lab like PEAR can be more difficult.

Minor nit: HTML is the markup language used in conjunction with CSS to generate web pages. HTTP is the protocol used between the browser and the server to get the HTML to your computer.

"Basic research is what I am doing when I don't know what I am doing." (Attributed to Verner von Braun.)
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My opinion, and it is just that, Bad Example. We didn't fund them to invent HTTP. HTTP has nothing to do with high energy physics, just like Arpanet has nothing to do with killing people and breaking things.

Now, if they had discovered the Top Quark and it had some sort of useful application, then you wouldn't hear me complain. But they didn't...and from what I understand, they won't discover anything that anyone can make any use of...other than leading to the possible discovery of something else that is without use.

See my point?

I reiterate: I like high energy physics, and science in general, but my like for it is tempered by at least some expectation, no matter how slight, that something useful will come of it. Knowledge without application is trivia.
 
Rob Lister said:
My opinion, and it is just that, Bad Example. We didn't fund them to invent HTTP.
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The US doesn't generaly fund CERN.

HTTP has nothing to do with high energy physics, just like Arpanet has nothing to do with killing people and breaking things.
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It is designed to make things harder to break. For various reasons that doesn't really work.

Now, if they had discovered the Top Quark and it had some sort of useful application, then you wouldn't hear me complain. But they didn't...and from what I understand, they won't discover anything that anyone can make any use of...other than leading to the possible discovery of something else that is without use.
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At the present time there is no meaningful way of predicting if something will be useful or not.

I reiterate: I like high energy physics, and science in general, but my like for it is tempered by at least some expectation, no matter how slight, that something useful will come of it. Knowledge without application is trivia.
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And if we had taken that atitude drugs would take even longer to bring to market (there are a lot of completely useless organic synthersis methods out that but from time to time one turns out to have a use). Haveing a reasonable understand of sub atomic phyisics has quite a number of theoretical uses.
 
geni said:
No but the funding cut means that it is unlikely to play a significant role in high enerygy phyisics past 2008. To an extent not totaly insane if the US were to buy into CERN or the japenese program.
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We are though. I honestly have no clue what we did because this sort of stuff makes my head hurt. All I know is that we helped build some of the big parts to make particles go zoom. Here is the website of the US's involvement. Holy crap does this stuff make my head hurt.
 
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geni said:
Yes and CERN also purchased some stuff from russia.
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If one were to read the website one would discover purchase would not be the right word. At least it doesn't fit my definition.
 
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technoextreme said:
If one were to read the website one would discover purchase would not be the right word. At least it doesn't fit my definition.
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You don't think CERN gives out observer status for nothing do you?
 
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