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Why is homosexuality wrong?

Ali said:
I repeat to the hard of hearing:
Practicing homosexuality is about being blatantly disgusting.
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So is being a Christian, darling.

Let's face it, Christians worship a gored, naked man nailed to a piece of wood.

And to get technical about it, practicing homosexuality is not being "blatantly" disgusting unless you're having sex in public, which personally I've never witnessed.

On the other hand, I have seen public displays of pierced hearts, bleeding heads crowned with thorns, torsos nailed to crosses, self flagellation, and so forth on the part of Christians. I've even seen some of these things broadcast over public media and paraded in front of children.

So who's being "blatantly disgusting" here?

In the interest of full disclosure, I should fess up that I also find homosexual sex a bit stomach-turning. I'm straight, and the idea of having sex with another man gives me kinda the same feeling that I get from the idea of eating spiders.

But y'know, there are cultures that consider spiders a delicacy. And it has nothing to do with morality or any god.

I also find heterosexual anal sex, for example, to be disgusting, while I know that many other people (including some of my friends) do not.

But come to that, I also get a kindof icky feeling when I think of my parents or grandparents in the sack. Or very ugly couples, for that matter.

On the other hand, I am not necessarily disgusted by all reports of consensual sex between older teens and young adults (having engaged in sexual activity myself as a minor) even though I fully support laws making the practice illegal.

But the key word here is "I".

When you say it's disgusting, you're being somewhat dishonest. What you mean is that it disgusts you. That's all.

And your feelings don't matter any more in this world than mine do.

What you're saying is that your feelings of disgust are equivalent to an objective judgment of "disgusting". That's quite an egomaniacal point of view. You are equating your personal feelings with universal truth.

Perhaps you should seek therapy.
 
The Grave said:
where in the bible/curan/koran (further interpretations welcome) does it say:-

"I am god and I say don't poke that staff of pleasure in thy neighbour's sphincter!"
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Leviticus 20:13

The LORD said to Moses... "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."
 
Piggy said:
Leviticus 20:13

The LORD said to Moses... "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."
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There is no so-called god, so no so-called lord, end of sentence :D

Paul

:) :) :)
 
Paulhoff said:
There is no so-called god, so no so-called lord
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Who said that there was?

That wasn't the question.

The question was, where does it say in scripture that thou shalt not cornhole another man.

The answer is, Leviticus 20:13.

The fact that Levitical law is based on a false worldview isn't pertinent.
 
Piggy said:
Who said that there was?

That wasn't the question.

The question was, where does it say in scripture that thou shalt not cornhole another man.

The answer is, Leviticus 20:13.

The fact that Levitical law is based on a false worldview isn't pertinent.
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Are you red and green color blind, :D, that is a green smiley, geeeeee.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
Terry said:
So what exactly is wrong with eating lobster or wearing mixed fibers, anway?
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Do you really want to know?

The answer is long and tedious.

But the generic (and therefore grossly oversimplified and incomplete) answer lies in 2 general trends of ancient Hebrew/priestly/rabbinic thought.

First, many of the commandments which seem bizarre to us have their roots in preserving Jewish identity (and yes, I know I'm abusing the term there, historically) during the transition from the nomadic period thru the conquest to the settlement of Israel and Judah.

A lot of it simply boiled down to not doing things the way the locals did.

If the locals had habits which differed from those of the Hebrews -- especially when it came to worship, sex, hygeine, and diet -- there were often injunctions not to engage in these, even upon pain of death.

To do so was to risk "going native", so to speak, and therefore becoming non-Jewish, and thereby losing the protection of YHWH. Not just for yourself, but for the tribe as well.

Second, as the rabbinic tradition developed, many of the earlier prohibitions had already ossified, and steps were taken to "build a hedge around the law", so as to protect people (and the tribe) from the wrath of God by making it difficult to violate the law even accidentally.

2 cases in point: boiling a goat in its mother's milk, and failing to fulfill an oath sworn to God (i.e., taking the name of the LORD in vain).

In order to prevent a person from being stuck in a situation in which an oath sworn before God -- according to the old tradition -- could not be fulfilled due to circumstances beyond a person's control, the tradition arose to simply never swear anything before God. Then, to make doubly sure, it became tabu to speak the name of God.

After all, if you never spoke God's name, you could not swear an oath on the name of the LORD, and if you never did that, you could not find yourself violating such an oath and therefore suffering the dire consequences believed to arise from that situation.

Over time, of course, the injunction to never speak the LORD's name became a law unto itself, subject to the same terrors which the rule was designed to protect people from in the first place.

Similarly, the injunction not to boil a kid in its mother's milk (perhaps part of an important Caananite religious ceremony, but who knows) evolved into an injunction against ever mixing meat and dairy. After all, if you never did that, you were sure never to accidentally cook the flesh of a goat with any sort of liquid containing milk which happened to come from that goat's mother -- because after all, how could you always know?

The separation of meat and dairy is still a component of kosher dietary practice.
 
Paulhoff said:
Are you red and green color blind, :D, that is a green smiley, geeeeee.
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No, I'm just very socially backward.

I didn't realize those were meant to indicate irony.

I thought they were meant as kindof a "Ha -- so there!"

My mistake.

Carry on.
 
Piggy said:
Do you really want to know?

The answer is long and tedious.
[snip cogent explanations]
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Actually, no, it isn't. But I already knew that. My point, such as it is, is that people aren't up in arms about eating lobster.
 
Piggy said:
Leviticus 20:13

The LORD said to Moses... "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."
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Leviticus certainly is funny, but there is some good stuff in the book of Psalms too.

Blessed is the one who grabs your little children and smashes them against a rock.
--Psalm 137, verse 9
 
DoubtingStephen said:
Leviticus certainly is funny, but there is some good stuff in the book of Psalms too.

Blessed is the one who grabs your little children and smashes them against a rock.
--Psalm 137, verse 9
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I was curious, so I nabbed the whole psalm to see if something was taken out of context.

v1 There we sat down, by the rivers in Babylon.
We cried when we remembered Zion.

v2 There we hung up our *harps on the willow trees (special kind of tree).

v3 For there the people that made us *prisoners were very *unkind.
"Sing us a song" they shouted. "Make us laugh with a song from Zion!"

v4 We just cannot sing the *LORD’s song in a foreign land.

v5 Jerusalem, if I forget you my right hand (will drop off!)

v6 My *tongue will stick to the top of my mouth
if I do not remember you, Jerusalem.
I think of you more than the things that I like best.

v7 *LORD, remember the people of Edom.
This is what they said in the Day of Jerusalem.
"Knock it down, knock it down to its *foundations!"

v8 Daughter of Babylon, someone will destroy you!
That person will do to you what you did to us.
He will be very happy then!

v9 He will catch your children and hit them with a rock.
He will be very happy then!
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Doesn't seem so.

Well, at least it falls in line with the whole "Kill the first born of every family" thing that God did with the Pharaoh.
 
Terry said:
Actually, no, it isn't. But I already knew that. My point, such as it is, is that people aren't up in arms about eating lobster.
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Sorry. Once again, my hyperliteral mind missed the point.

<Emily Litella> Nevermind. </Emily Litella>
 
DoubtingStephen said:
Leviticus certainly is funny, but there is some good stuff in the book of Psalms too.

Blessed is the one who grabs your little children and smashes them against a rock.
--Psalm 137, verse 9
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Only if you're an Edomite.

Well, are you... punk? ;)
 
Lonewulf said:
I was curious, so I nabbed the whole psalm to see if something was taken out of context.

Doesn't seem so.

Well, at least it falls in line with the whole "Kill the first born of every family" thing that God did with the Pharaoh.
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It's funny b/c I've heard that psalm cited in sermons and such, but everyone stops short of that little bit about the Edomites (who had moved into Judah during the exile and were still there, of course, when Cyrus repatriated the Judeans, and were not very happy about being muscled back out.)

As for killing the firstborn, if you look closely in Exodus, you can find traces of the most ancient "commandments" which included sacrificing one's own firstborn son to God.
 
Ali said:
When somebody is given gold for an action or thought, it would be not so intelligent to not to continue with the actions and thoughts.


:):D:)
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How was life as a concentration camp guard, then ?
 
Terry said:
So what exactly is wrong with eating lobster or wearing mixed fibers, anyway?
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To add to what Piggy said in post 1687, I mentioned this earlier:

The book of Leviticus, like the rest of the Pentateuch, was most likely written during the time of Babylonian captivity. The Jews, being a people without a nation to call their own, had only their tribal customs to give them any sense of identity. Given that certain civilizations of the time, including the Babylonians, had fewer laws of this nature regarding 'sexual morality', the Jews believed that they could better preserve their identity by differentiating themselves from their captives. This, incidentally, is also the origin of many of the other bizarre laws found in the Torah, such as the dietary restrictions.

So this is why all those ridiculous laws are found in pretty much the same part of the Torah, and they were all written for the same reason.
 
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