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Is there evidence your god beliefs are true while other god beliefs are false?

You took an intersubjectively investigable phenomenon like homeopathy and tried to equate it with an intersubjectively non-investigable phenomenon, namely internal spiritual experience.
That was the silly part.
Can't you see the difference?

Homoeopaths claim that homoeopathy is not an intersubjectively investigable phenomenon. Well, they don't use those words, but they claim it is not measurable in ways we currently understand. Whilst at the same time being obvious to those in the know.
 
Please elaborate. The existence of the "one true god" and his "judgement" have been foundation dogma of Christianity since the Nicene creed. If you claim to be Christian, you must believe in "an invisible man who lives in the sky who rules over the universe and casts down sinners and infidels into a fiery pit of endless torment forever."

No - I won't elaborate. What's the point on discussing particulars of the Christian faith with a non-Christian - especially when you've already decided what Christians are supposed to believe? If you were a Christian I'd just tell you to read your bible and make up your own mind. Suffice it to say "a fiery pit of endless torment forever" is not a foundation dogma my faith is built on.
 
The only kind of phenomena that cannot be investigated are ones that don't exist.

Can you see where you made the mistake?

You were using words without considering their meanings. Again.

So I could usefully investigate the thought you had ten seconds before reading this sentence?
How could I do it?
Only by asking you.
And to a skeptic that would be useless, because I could never demonstrate that you weren't lying, or misremembering.
Everything can be investigated, but not everything is amenable to the kind of intersubjective investigation that would satisfy a skeptic.
 
No - I won't elaborate. What's the point on discussing particulars of the Christian faith with a non-Christian - especially when you've already decided what Christians are supposed to believe? If you were a Christian I'd just tell you to read your bible and make up your own mind. Suffice it to say "a fiery pit of endless torment forever" is not a foundation dogma my faith is built on.

I have read the Bible, from cover to cover. Have you? Have you read the Nicene creed? Have you read of the various and sundry sects violently abolished in the name of Christian dogma? What does Consubstantiality mean, and why were people killed over it?

If you could please explain what supernatural elements you believe in, and explain why you accept those but reject all others, that would answer the question in the OP. What makes your pet beliefs better than all the others?
 
I have read the Bible, from cover to cover. Have you? Have you read the Nicene creed? Have you read of the various and sundry sects violently abolished in the name of Christian dogma? What does Consubstantiality mean, and why were people killed over it?

If you could please explain what supernatural elements you believe in, and explain why you accept those but reject all others, that would answer the question in the OP. What makes your pet beliefs better than all the others?
Thought:

Why did you choose that shirt to wear this morning?

It was available.

It fits (works for) you.

DR
 
Homoeopaths claim that homoeopathy is not an intersubjectively investigable phenomenon. Well, they don't use those words, but they claim it is not measurable in ways we currently understand. Whilst at the same time being obvious to those in the know.

I have no interest in homeopathy. Do they really claim it's obvious to those in the know? What aspect do they claim is obvious? That it works? Or how it works?

That it might not be measurable in ways we currently understand is an entirely reasonable position to hold. In the late 19th Century scientists scoffed at the idea of the existence of electromagnetic waves. Now our societies are more or less based around them.

But we're getting OT.
 
I have read the Bible, from cover to cover. Have you? Have you read the Nicene creed? Have you read of the various and sundry sects violently abolished in the name of Christian dogma? What does Consubstantiality mean, and why were people killed over it?

If you could please explain what supernatural elements you believe in, and explain why you accept those but reject all others, that would answer the question in the OP. What makes your pet beliefs better than all the others?

Actually, that wouldn't answer the OP at all. She wants "scientific evidence" on why what I believe is true and someone elses beliefs are false.
 
I am interested in how theists can support their cognitive dissonance of recognizing other god beliefs are false, yet justifying their own gods beliefs are true.

Skeptigirl, I think that one problem with getting answers to this question is that the theists who have been posting here don't believe that all other god beliefs are false. While your statement may be true for many, perhaps even most believers, it does not appear to be a true statement for the theists who post in this forum. Thus, the assumption behind your question - that they recognize other god beliefs as false while claiming theirs is true - is not accurate. Theists who have posted here reject the simplistic "invisible sky daddy" charactorization of ALL gods, so they are equally disbelieving of that charactorization of their god (or goddess) as they are of all the other gods, be they Allah, Zeus or Pele.

If you want an answer to that question, I think you will have to start by trying to understand what it is they do believe in. (Hint: It isn't an invisible sky daddy that requires blind unthinking faith.) Then you may be able to discern where and how they draw the line between credible god beliefs and silly ones.

Oh, and I'd like to say welcome to V23. I've enjoyed your posts. You make a lot of sense to me. I hope you'll stick around. It's a harsh environment here for believers in any sort, but it can be a worthwhile experience. Lots of very intelligent folks post here.
 
What evidence is that based on?

I don't think it's about evidence, more like a shift in perspective; before, you saw reality this way, now reality is seen in another way. Hence, there’s nothing supernatural about it, it’s like recognizing that the map is not the territory in a more intimate way than pure intellectual reasoning. How this has snowballed into religious belief systems, structures, rituals, avatars and idols or claims about the physical world is beyond me. The way I see it, it has nothing to do with that, except in the way that you get rid of all such rubbish.

Of course, people in those days didn’t have the analytical tools or vocabulary we have now. In a culture where very little is still written down, things are memorized in rime and fables, so extensive use of metaphors and such is understandable. Perhaps the writing down of these myths and metaphors is one reason why things went awry: people started to treat them as literal truths since they didn’t change according to the context they were presented in anymore. I don’t know.
 
However, the quality control on the miracle pass rate is governed by God-of-the-Gaps.

Thus we had, for example, a miracle being counted towards JPII's canonisation until it was found out that for JPII to have organised the event he would have needed to travel back in time to when he wasn't dead yet.

Woo.

Well done. One down, twenty thousand plus to go. Drop me a line when you get to 19,000 and I'll send you a magnum of champagne ;)
 
Thought:

Why did you choose that shirt to wear this morning?

It was available.

It fits (works for) you.

DR

You cannot compare belief in an omnipotent being to a matter of taste. Religious dogma involves baseless assertions about the existence and non-existence of many things, including the soul, God, miracles, and an afterlife. I believe in graviation because there is evidence. Why do you believe in your religion?
 
Actually, that wouldn't answer the OP at all. She wants "scientific evidence" on why what I believe is true and someone elses beliefs are false.

Yes. Do you have any, or do you admit that you believe in your religion merely because A) you want it to be true B) you have never examined it critically C) some other reason, up to an including evidence? Do you have any evidence for any of your religious beliefs? On what grounds do you accept your religion while rejacting all others?
 
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You cannot compare belief in an omnipotent being to a matter of taste. Religious dogma involves baseless assertions about the existence and non-existence of many things, including the soul, God, miracles, and an afterlife. I believe in graviation because there is evidence. Why do you believe in your religion?

You might as well say "You are all stupid for believing in something that I don't. Now tell me why you believe that other stupid guy is wrong."

and then when no one answers ask "Why is no one answering my question?"
 
I have no interest in homeopathy. Do they really claim it's obvious to those in the know? What aspect do they claim is obvious? That it works? Or how it works?

That it might not be measurable in ways we currently understand is an entirely reasonable position to hold. In the late 19th Century scientists scoffed at the idea of the existence of electromagnetic waves. Now our societies are more or less based around them.

But we're getting OT.

They claim it's obvious that it works, because they have experienced it.
 
You might as well say "You are all stupid for believing in something that I don't. Now tell me why you believe that other stupid guy is wrong."

and then when no one answers ask "Why is no one answering my question?"

I'm willing to be convinced that your religious beliefs are true, all you have to do is try to explain why you believe them. I would happily change my tune and become a Christian if presented with compelling evidence that God exists, the Christian dogma is accurate, and that God is good.

Do you have any evidence? Why are you a Christian, and not a Muslim, Jew, or Wiccan? What convinced you to accept your religion and reject all others?
 
A Christian Skeptic, Darth Rotor, why are we going around and around about whether or not it is nice to ask you why you believe in your religion, and not others, and whether there is evidence for it? For the sake of argument, let's say that it's a very rude question and we're horrible people for asking.

Now, could you please address it?
 
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I'm willing to be convinced that your religious beliefs are true, all you have to do is try to explain why you believe them. I would happily change my tune and become a Christian if presented with compelling evidence that God exists, the Christian dogma is accurate, and that God is good.

Do you have any evidence? Why are you a Christian, and not a Muslim, Jew, or Wiccan? What convinced you to accept your religion and reject all others?

This isn't meant to be a smart aleck response back but:

If you care God is there then go look for him. If you don't care he's there then what's it matter ultimately what evidence any of us has? As for Christianity - I'm not sure what Christian dogma has to do with anything. I think I'd first start with Jesus and go on from there. But that's just my opinion and I have no scientific evidence it's more true than some other approach to Christianity.:)
 
Well done. One down, twenty thousand plus to go. Drop me a line when you get to 19,000 and I'll send you a magnum of champagne ;)

I take it that the point that I made regarding the quality control techniques involved went straight over your head.
 
So I could usefully investigate the thought you had ten seconds before reading this sentence?

Does that thought still exist?

No?

Then my point: "The only kind of phenomena that cannot be investigated are ones that don't exist." remains valid.

And your English comprehension is ropey.
 
This isn't meant to be a smart aleck response back but:

If you care God is there then go look for him.

What makes you think I haven't?

If you don't care he's there then what's it matter ultimately what evidence any of us has?

What makes you think I don't care, and for that matter, why don't you? If the salvation of my soul is at stake, you'd think, as a christian, you could at least be bothered to evangelized when begged to do so.

As for Christianity - I'm not sure what Christian dogma has to do with anything.

Because Christian dogma makes specific claims. Here's the Nicene Creed for your benefit.

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, light from light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary
and became truly human.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father [and the Son],
who with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

Summary: There is only one God, who created Heaven and Earth. Jesus Christ is also divine, and the son of God, his mother was a Virgin, salvation can only be had through him, he was crucifed, died, and was reborn before flying into the sky, baptisms can abolish sin, the dead will be reborn, and the Kingdom of Heaven is imminent.

Does any of that seem familiar?


I think I'd first start with Jesus and go on from there.

Interesting choice, given that's not where the Bible starts.

But that's just my opinion and I have no scientific evidence it's more true than some other approach to Christianity.:)

Ok, but why do you believe it? Please answer that question. I'm begging you.
 
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