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Fundamentalist Mormon sects

Bikewer

Penultimate Amazing
Joined
Sep 12, 2003
Messages
13,242
Location
St. Louis, Mo.
Yesterday on NPR, they were interviewing an "escapee" from one of the Arizona-based Mormon "fundamentalist" communities. These are the people who have split away from mainstream Mormonism to continue to practice polygamy, among other things.

If you thought that the core beliefs of LDS were weird, these folks make Scientology look solid.
In fact, they are rather similar.

According to the young woman, (who, at 16, ran away to go to school rather than become the 4th wife of a 50-year old Mormon "elder") the men in this system have the potential to become "gods".
Only the most-advanced "spirits" are incarnated into these cults, to begin with. Everyone else on the planet, including other Mormons, are seen as evil. The men, by following all the tenets of the sect, and engaging in polygamy, (a must) can eventually ascend to the level of Godhood, whereupon they will be given their own planet to populate all by themselves!
Further, "God" (that is, the Christian OT God) is one of these ascended fellows himself, who got to have the Earth for his very own.....
 
Yesterday on NPR, they were interviewing an "escapee" from one of the Arizona-based Mormon "fundamentalist" communities. These are the people who have split away from mainstream Mormonism to continue to practice polygamy, among other things.

If you thought that the core beliefs of LDS were weird, these folks make Scientology look solid.
In fact, they are rather similar.

According to the young woman, (who, at 16, ran away to go to school rather than become the 4th wife of a 50-year old Mormon "elder") the men in this system have the potential to become "gods".
Only the most-advanced "spirits" are incarnated into these cults, to begin with. Everyone else on the planet, including other Mormons, are seen as evil. The men, by following all the tenets of the sect, and engaging in polygamy, (a must) can eventually ascend to the level of Godhood, whereupon they will be given their own planet to populate all by themselves!
Further, "God" (that is, the Christian OT God) is one of these ascended fellows himself, who got to have the Earth for his very own.....

Phallocentric, patriarchal, ideologues.

Could be any religion, really. Be honest.
 
I wouldn't go that far. In most religions the line between god and human is immutable.

But it's only slightly weirder than most religions. More harmful, though.
 
I was under the impression that even the slightly less Fundamentalist whacko Mor[m]ons believed that the holy and saintlike MALES would each get their own planet, in some imaginary Mor[m]on hyper-galaxy, if they lived pure, chaste, and intolerant lives.
 
One thing I never understood about these types of communities is what happens to the dudes?

If each Mormon "elder" has multiple wives, then many males are gonna end up with no females for themselves, how the hell do these communities function? I believe I read somewhere (maybe it was a comic book, I don't know) that a lack of reproductive opportunity for males causes significantly increased crime rates and whatnot, so are the Mormon males going nuts and shooting up these places or what?
 
One thing I never understood about these types of communities is what happens to the dudes?

If each Mormon "elder" has multiple wives, then many males are gonna end up with no females for themselves, how the hell do these communities function? I believe I read somewhere (maybe it was a comic book, I don't know) that a lack of reproductive opportunity for males causes significantly increased crime rates and whatnot, so are the Mormon males going nuts and shooting up these places or what?

Generaly they get kicked out and live on the street.
 
One thing I never understood about these types of communities is what happens to the dudes?

If each Mormon "elder" has multiple wives, then many males are gonna end up with no females for themselves, how the hell do these communities function? I believe I read somewhere (maybe it was a comic book, I don't know) that a lack of reproductive opportunity for males causes significantly increased crime rates and whatnot, so are the Mormon males going nuts and shooting up these places or what?

Among the polygamous branches of the Mor[m]on crazies there is a practice of discarding young males that are viewed as a threat by the older, dominant polygamists.

Various pretenses are used to evict youth from their homes and force them out of looneyland.

This threat gives the older polygamists additional power to demand fealty from those who wish to stay and begin accumulating wives, thus it reinforces the patriarchal power structure that is a core ingredient of all of the most evil religions.
 
Among the polygamous branches of the Mor[m]on crazies there is a practice of discarding young males that are viewed as a threat by the older, dominant polygamists.

Various pretenses are used to evict youth from their homes and force them out of looneyland.

This threat gives the older polygamists additional power to demand fealty from those who wish to stay and begin accumulating wives, thus it reinforces the patriarchal power structure that is a core ingredient of all of the most evil religions.

If you ask me, those dudes should be more than happy to get the hell out of those places, sadly that usually isn't the case.

A guy I used to know, who was Catholic, got married to a Mormon (not one of the super crazy ones, just the regular crazy ones) and he had it at the big Mormon church in D.C. (the one that looks like its from Wizard of Oz). No one from his family or his friends were allowed to attend the wedding since only card-carrying Mormons are allowed in said church. Their reception was equally boring since they weren't allowed to have booze or coffee or anything. I don't talk to this guy anymore, he went all cuckoo since he got married.
 
If you ask me, those dudes should be more than happy to get the hell out of those places, sadly that usually isn't the case.

Depends. They get kicked out often below the age of 18 with no marketable skills, and no support network. Many of the male prostitutes in the areas around these groups are young men kicked out of the FLDS groups.
 
Um that is main stream Mormonism by my understanding.

As an ex-mormon, I can say that you are correct. This is very much mainstream mormonism and isn't the slightest bit controversial in the "normal" mormon church.

I don't really regard it as much nuttier than other religions. (It's just a development of the idea of us as gods "children"... children occasionally grow up....)
 
I'm a currently active mainstream member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (you know, the Mor[m]ons or LDS). If anyone here is interested in knowing the doctrines of the LDS church, I'd be glad to answer. I've been here at jref for about a year fighting against 9/11 truthers and discussing religion and atheism.

From what I've seen on the thread thus far,

1. Mormon fundamentalists are not part of the mainstream Mormon church. I have one brother-in-law that is part of a fundamentalist Mormon group and he and his family are nice people - nothing like what is being portrayed here. That being said, he and I disagree on a lot of fundamental issues.

2. Yes, mainstream Mormons believe that "as man is, God once was. And as God is, man may become" - just as children become parents:

Dallin H. Oaks (one of the current Twelve Apostles of the LDS church) said:
DHO: Before the close of his ministry, in Illinois, Joseph Smith put together the significance of what he had taught about the nature of God and the nature and destiny of man. He preached a great sermon not long before he was murdered that God was a glorified Man, glorified beyond our comprehension, (still incomprehensible in many ways), but a glorified, resurrected, physical Being, and it is the destiny of His children upon this earth, upon the conditions He has proscribed, to grow into that status themselves. That was a big idea, a challenging idea. It followed from the First Vision, and it was taught by Joseph Smith, and it is the explanation of many things that Mormons do — the whole theology of Mormonism.

HW: Is it the core of it?

DHO: That is the purpose of the life of men and women on this earth: to pursue their eternal destiny. Eternal means Godlike and to become like God. One of the succeeding prophets said: "As man is, God once was. And as God is, man may become." That is an extremely challenging idea. We don’t understand, we’re not able to understand, all [about] how it comes to pass or what is at its origin, but it explains the purpose of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which is to put people’s feet on the pathway to a glorified existence in the life to come that is incomprehensible, but far closer to God than the Christian world generally perceives. - link

3. No, I don't want to be a polygamist, as has been hinted here.

4. Yes, Mormon wedding receptions are boring, but they do have those cool butter mints though. :)

5. The "big Mormon church in D.C." is called a Temple, similar to the temples spoken of in the Old testament. All are welcome to weekly church services (I recommend you attend and ask questions there) at chapels all over, but only those who are members of the LDS church who meet some minimum requirements of obedience to God's commandments are allowed into the temple. Some of these requirements deal with living what is called the "word of wisdom" or not drinking alcohol, coffee, taking harmful drugs, etc., living what is called the "law of chastity" which says that you will have no sexual relations with anyone other than your legally and lawfully wedded spouse (singular :)), paying tithing as described in the old testament, declaring that you have faith in God and Jesus Christ, etc. A temple marriage is simple and short - about 5 minutes or so and the complete focus is on the covenant between the bride and groom to be faithful to each other and by doing so, they can receive many blessings. The temple marriage is about the couple being married and the reception is about relatives and friends. This is a bit different than non-temple marriages and so I think people are sometimes offended that they can't be a part of the marriage ceremony itself if they are not members of the LDS church, etc.

6. I only know about outcast fundamentalist polygamist males from what I read in the newspapers, but I'll ask my brother-in-law about it to see what he knows.

7. The LDS church claims to be the restored church that Christ set up in the new testament (with 12 apostles, prophets, seventies, etc.). After Christ and the twelve apostles were murdered, the earth was without the true church of Christ and so people gathered with like minds and sought religious truth together, forming their own churches as they went along. In 1820, Joseph Smith saw the confusion of all of these churches who fought against each other and disagreed about doctrine and read in James 1:5, "If any of ye lack wisdom, let him ask of God" and so he asked which church was right, and was visited by God the Father and Jesus Christ and was called as a prophet to restore the church of Christ in preparation for the second coming of Christ.

FYI, I'm not speaking for the Mormon church, I am just explaining how I see it as a member of that church. If you want to know their official stance on any issue, check out www.lds.org or www.mormon.org, which are the official LDS church websites. Another site that is NOT directly affiliated with the LDS church, it's just a bunch of Mormon apologist members (who else would defend Mormonism but the members themselves?) that explain and refute anti-Mormon allegations against the church is www.fairlds.org. They also explain the relationship between the Mormon church and polygamy as well as other issues there. I've interacted with the folks at fairlds.org and they have proven to be more unbiased that I would have thought, being Mormons - they don't whitewash the imperfections of the members or prophets of the LDS church, but they do dig a little deeper than most anti-Mormons seem to, in my observations.
 
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3. No, I don't want to be a polygamist, as has been hinted here.


Yeah, I know, I was being a wise guy! :D

Not my first such infraction here!

I wasn't aware that you have been in the CT section. Good for you! Just reading some of that stuff makes my head want to explode, so I'll tip my cap to you.
 
Yeah, I know, I was being a wise guy! :D

Not my first such infraction here!

I wasn't aware that you have been in the CT section. Good for you! Just reading some of that stuff makes my head want to explode, so I'll tip my cap to you.

I figured as much. No problem, wise guy. ;)

[derail]Yes, I've been studying CT addiction (9/11, moon landing hoax, Illuminati, etc.) for almost 10 years now and it was very interesting until I figured it out - they're just addicted to it (deriving self worth, escaping, savior complex, elitism, etc.) like any other addict and hence the delusion and lack of logic, etc. - and yes, it's possible for people to be addicted to religion in the same way.[/derail]
 
One thing I never understood about these types of communities is what happens to the dudes?

If each Mormon "elder" has multiple wives, then many males are gonna end up with no females for themselves, how the hell do these communities function? I believe I read somewhere (maybe it was a comic book, I don't know) that a lack of reproductive opportunity for males causes significantly increased crime rates and whatnot, so are the Mormon males going nuts and shooting up these places or what?

They kick the boys out. They're generally referred to as the "Lost Boys. This organization, http://www.childbrides.org/boys.html tries to help these boys in addition to others.
 
The remarkable thing about the "lost boys" phenomenon is that it isn't dissimilar to the reproductive strategies of certain herd animals.
Dominant males keep harems of females to themselves, and young males are often driven away to live in small bachelor groups until such time as they feel able to challenge an established male.
I have noted before that many cults seem to have a rather atavistic setup in this regard; the charismatic/dominant leader often arranges to have his pick of females, and often the "deflowering" of virgin members of the cult falls to the leader.

Is there something in this particular branch of human loonyness that harkens back to more primitive behavior?
 
Yesterday on NPR, they were interviewing an "escapee" from one of the Arizona-based Mormon "fundamentalist" communities. These are the people who have split away from mainstream Mormonism to continue to practice polygamy, among other things.

If you thought that the core beliefs of LDS were weird, these folks make Scientology look solid.
In fact, they are rather similar.

According to the young woman, (who, at 16, ran away to go to school rather than become the 4th wife of a 50-year old Mormon "elder") the men in this system have the potential to become "gods".

Do you remember what NPR show had this interview?
 
I believe it was the locally-produced "St. Louis Talks" segment, with Don Johnson hosting. I believe these are available if not from NPR, then from the local KWMU-FM site.
 

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