Aircraft versus Steel

[pomeroo]

The aircraft shaped hole is the point skip

Do you think the bombs, explosives and torpedoes made them?

Lost Child, as always, has plunged his fingers deep in his ears and is screaming "la-la-la, I can't h-e-a-r you!"

 

[Skeptic Guy]

So the Japanese used depleted uranium back then?!

 

[Mince]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamikaze

Kamikaze pilots would attempt to intentionally crash their aircraft — often laden with explosives, bombs, torpedoes and full fuel tanks — into Allied ships with a goal of causing greater damage than a conventional attack, using bombs or torpedoes.

What’s your point?

The point should be obvious. If you cannot get it of your own accord, it is spelled out above. I just wanted to clarify the record.

With the above quoted post, you make it sound like the Japenese "Zero" aircraft carried 4 items simultaneously which would make piercing the metal hull of a ship easier. In truth, the "explosives" to which you refer was either the "bombs" or "torpedoes" to which you also refer. And the Zeros never carried "bombs" and "torpedoes" simultaneously. They carried either bombs or torpedoes. So, the massive machine of destruction you've described above (explosives, bombs, torpedoes and fuel tanks) is hardly as you've described it.

Again, just clarifying the record.

 

[Arus808]

I really dont get the "no planers' theory since 90% of the outside "shell" of the towers WERE WINDOWS!!!!!

yes, steel framed those windows, but therE WERE FAR MORE GLASS surface than steel that covered the exterior of those buildings!

 

[defaultdotxbe]

some time ago i had found a fairly good page that describes the effect speed has on impacts such as this, it was referring to tornados, but the "tornado effect" certainly comes into play here

The mechanical properties of a projectile
depends on its speed. For example, if I take a soft lead bullet and press it
slowly against a steel plate, say 0.5 cm thick, using a mechanical press, it
would deform into a lead disc and the steel plate would be largely
unaffected. However, if I take the same soft lead bullet and it's fired from
a 0.357 Magnum, it would easily blow a large hole in the same steel plate.
The difference is that deformation of a projectile takes a certain amount of
time to occur. If the impact time is very short compared to this
characteristic time of deformation, the mechanical properties of the object
will be very different. This is not an uncommon phenomenon. Another example,
if I jump into a lake from a height of 1 meter, I just sink and make a
splash -- no harm. But if I jump into the same lake from an airplane at 1000
meters above the surface, I'm a pancake. I might just as well hit solid
ground. The reason is: at the speed with which I hit the water is so fast,
the water does not have time to "get out of the way" so it becomes
essentially a solid. This is what happens to straws etc. driven by tornadic winds. They become projectiles, like an arrow.

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/phy00/phy00325.htm

 

[Cicero]

The force of the impact of this Kamikaze on the USS Missouri deck sent one of the Zero's 13mm machine gun barrel's right through the side of one of the Missouri's 40 millimeter barrel's. But of course planes just do not have any energy when they are intentionally crashed into objects.....

http://www.armas.es/foro/archivo.php?COD=13979

 

[Corsair 115]

And let's not forget that the Zero is probably the closest thing in WW2 to a paper plane with an engine. It had a very light hull with no armor at all.

For clarification purposes, fighters which did have armour did not distribute that armour throughout the fuselage. The armour was concentrated in a plate situated behind the pilot's seat (since most attacks came from the rear quarter) and sometimes around the vital parts of the engine. The rest of a fighter was unarmoured.

Fuel tanks were self-sealing due to a special rubber coating around the tank and not due to any armouring.

 

[Cicero]

For clarification purposes, fighters which did have armour did not distribute that armour throughout the fuselage. The armour was concentrated in a plate situated behind the pilot's seat (since most attacks came from the rear quarter) and sometimes around the vital parts of the engine. The rest of a fighter was unarmoured.

Fuel tanks were self-sealing due to a special rubber coating around the tank and not due to any armouring.

But the Zero did not have self-sealing fuel tanks or pilot protective armor.

 

[Corsair 115]

But the Zero did not have self-sealing fuel tanks or pilot protective armor.

Correct, at least not until the late war models. I just wanted to point out that those fighters which did have armour had it located in a few specific places. Folks not familiar with WWII fighters might read armour and think it was covering or reinforcing most of the fuselage rather that being concentrated in a few key spots inside the fighter.

 

[leftysergeant]

Even the IL-2 Sturmovik, which is described as a "flying tank" had only an armored "bath tub" around the pilot and rear gunner. The aft portion was wood and fabric.

 

[CurtC]

Wikipedia lists that as a medium bomber, so that AFAIK has to be the exception among kamikaze aircraft. They were usually very light; there was a twin-engine light bomber that they did use towards the end of the war as it had outlived its usefulness in other types of missions, but I can't remember the make or model.

ETA:
Kawasaki Ki-48.

I estimate the wingspan of the pane that made that hole as 60 ft. Based on the height of the guys in the upper left, and you can see a hole where their legs are to estimate where their feet are. The Ki-48 had a wingspan of 57 feet.

The Zero, on the other hand, had a wingspan of 39 feet, so the size of the hole indicates that the plane was significantly larger than a zero.

 

[T.A.M.]

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h98000/h98062.jpg
http://www.usmm.net/images2/waite2.jpg
http://www.usskidd.com/images/661hain.jpg
http://usskadashanbaycve76.homestead.com/files/hole_in_ship.jpg

TAM

 

[BenBurch]

And remember how this relates to the trutherganda about the Pentagon; Most Kamakazee pilots had about 8 hours of training. Period. Yet they were able to dive their aircraft at high speed down to wavetop level and then shoot in a few feet above the waterline.

If the CTers were right, only the most expert of pilots could have done this...

 

[Jonnyclueless]

Thanks AZcat for proving to us that Kamikazes were a false flag op!

 

[BenBurch]

Thanks AZcat for proving to us that Kamikazes were a false flag op!

OMG!!111!11 You are right!

Tojo and Roosevelt were conspiring together to ensure Japanese Manufacturing Dominance in the post-war-world!

 

[PhantomWolf]

I guess Rouge Waves are a false flag too, I mean how could water do this to steel....

http://radio.weblogs.com/0105910/images/roguewave_effect.jpg

 

[LastChild]

http://books.google.com/books?id=Mu...ts=K3-DDdVHaG&sig=H1Lhzz53OJdoIsZyNe5gfJGgLrQ

For suicide missions the JAAF used modified Peggys known as the Ki-61-I KAI with armament removed and a solid nose packed with explosive

Mitsubishi Ki-67-1 of the imperial Japanese Army. During the closing months of the war, these aircraft had their noses packed with explosives for use as a kamikaze aircraft.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Must have had explosives in the nose.

 

[LastChild]

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/15579468afbb90f028.jpg[/qimg]

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/15579468afbb8cfa36.jpg[/qimg]

Must have had explosives in the nose.

Why? You can throw a rock through a window.

 

[AMTMAN]

http://books.google.com/books?id=Mu...ts=K3-DDdVHaG&sig=H1Lhzz53OJdoIsZyNe5gfJGgLrQ

For suicide missions the JAAF used modified Peggys known as the Ki-61-I KAI with armament removed and a solid nose packed with explosive

Mitsubishi Ki-67-1 of the imperial Japanese Army. During the closing months of the war, these aircraft had their noses packed with explosives for use as a kamikaze aircraft.

And your point is what?