British stuffed animal ad mentalism?

[Southwind17]

For what it's worth, I only realized recently how much some of these so-called magicians resort to TV trickery to achieve the seemingly 'magic' effects they do. As such I agree with pjh's sentiment, and I, too, would be inclined to classify it as something other than 'magic'. There's little skill involved, and if I had access to the same resources that they do I'm pretty sure I could perpetrate the same or similar effects.

 

[JonWhite]

So you can read my mind can you? That's quite a claim, how about addressing what I say rather than what you think the state of my mind is?

What claim? It It was even phrased as a question.

Nonetheless, with your constant whining about being treated dishonestly it is a fair assumption.

Your point has been addressed here several times. You just don't seem to get it.

I see no difference to Derren editing in a fake explanation and say Blaine editing in a fake levitation, they're both dishonest within the implied contract TV magicians have with their audience. Once you stoop to TV effects it ceases to be a demonstration of 'magic' but becomes TV drama.

You see no difference, others here do.

Brown fulfilled his "contract" by performing a credible effect (a drawing dupe) and presenting it in an entertaining way.

What I find really hard is how much shrieking and childish behaviour one person (me) saying what I think is causing, you fanboys are too much! I can't have an opinion no?

Of course you have your opinion.

But you are the one here childishly shrieking "fanboy" insults just because we happen to disagree with you.

Well that's the point, I've seen the TV version of something wicked and tbh it's quite crap - certainly nothing on his made for TV stuff, it shows how poor he is in the flesh so to speak - the show was full of filler like blockhead, walking on glass and stopping your pulse - perhaps one reasonable effect in the whole show.

To a limited point I agree. I thought the middle "carni" section as shown somewhat weak also. Still, when I see bands play live I do not expect to be blown away by every track performed either. Overall it was still a well executed and enjoyable show.

And having seen him perform the "Seance" show live, IMO he really has got the chops in the flesh.

 

[JonWhite]

For what it's worth, I only realized recently how much some of these so-called magicians resort to TV trickery to achieve the seemingly 'magic' effects they do. As such I agree with pjh's sentiment, and I, too, would be inclined to classify it as something other than 'magic'. There's little skill involved, and if I had access to the same resources that they do I'm pretty sure I could perpetrate the same or similar effects.

If the actual effect - a drawing duplication - was also acheived by nothing more than editing also then I'd agree with you, but it wasn't.

It was a skillful execution of a mentalism standard that fooled the ad men present. The subsequent manipulated "explanation" was simply mis-direction to add a greater layer of mystery.

 

[Southwind17]

To a limited point I agree. I thought the middle "carni" section as shown somewhat weak also. Still, when I see bands play live I do not expect to be blown away by every track performed either. Overall it was still a well executed and enjoyable show.

You'd be pretty miffed if it transpired the band was miming though!

 

[JonWhite]

You'd be pretty miffed if it transpired the band was miming though!

Fortunately I'm not a fan of The Spice Girls.

I'd see it more in terms of the actual singing being just fine (OK, maybe not using the Spice Girls example here) but the mutton as lamb packaging and dance routines being choreographed in a particular way you don't like.

 

[Southwind17]

Fortunately I'm not a fan of The Spice Girls.

I'd see it more in terms of the actual singing being just fine (OK, maybe not using the Spice Girls example here) but the mutton as lamb packaging and dance routines being choreographed in a particular way you don't like.

Well I see it as much more than that. Miming to a recording seems like a pretty close analogy to me, i.e. false pretenses!

 

[JonWhite]

Well I see it as much more than that. Miming to a recording seems like a pretty close analogy to me, i.e. false pretenses!

Do you see the actual core magicians trick - the drawing dupe - as false pretenses?

(yeah I know it really was, but I mean done in a way anyone could just walk off the street + edit suite and do sense)

Everything else was packaging.

When magicians/mentalists do this effect live on stage they have to wrap it up in a different way, but their wrapping is just as much a lie. As said, it's the nature of the job. This was done for TV so Brown made full use of the medium for his "explanational" wrapping. Nonetheless the core effect remains and requires magic skill to pull off either way.

 

[tkingdoll]

Well I see it as much more than that. Miming to a recording seems like a pretty close analogy to me, i.e. false pretenses!

You know nothing about magic. I recommend you never try and get a job in television.

 

[JonWhite]

You know nothing about magic. I recommend you never try and get a job in television.

After 15 years in TV, I recommend that too. Regardless of knowledge of magic.

 

[Southwind17]

You know nothing about magic. I recommend you never try and get a job in television.

Thanks for the cold reading; I'll keep it in mind!

 

[HappyHarryHampton]

There is an edit in the video.

Darren is holding the envelope and places it on the table.

But before that there is a shot of the envelope already on the table (before he has placed it there).

It's discussed on YouTube.

Derren's tricks are not what they seem (hey big surprise) but also they are not honest according to traditional magician ethics (don't use camera tricks).

This was presented as a continuous shot (with multiple camera angles), but it isn't. It's fishy and must bring into question the veracity of the 'ordinary' people involved in the film. Did they do retakes?

Although it has to be said.. the duplicate picture in the envelope is not exactly a new trick (is it Uri) and stooges would not necessarily be required!

The subliminal psycho babble is just window dressing.

 

[Azrael 5]

Happy Harry can you go away now,you're spamming the forums.

 

[HappyHarryHampton]

Happy Harry can you go away now,you're spamming the forums.

In what way is discussing the video edit in this trick spamming? It's a fact, the trick is presented as a continuous take with multiple camera angles and 'ordinary' members of the public. The video edit suggests it's not that at all.

Does Derren cheat? (I mean cheat in the way magicians consider cheating).

Why so touchy about Derren Brown?

 

[JonWhite]

Does Derren cheat? (I mean cheat in the way magicians consider cheating).

No.

Why so touchy about Derren Brown?

Why so obsessed?