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I can quite understand your frustration, Phil, and it must be embarrassing to be on the exhibit side of an exhibition like that. . .


No, I don't think you can understand my frustration. See, I don't have any. There's nothing in the way of frustration for you to understand.

And no, it's not embarrassing at all. The world is full of stupid people. I have to live with them and exchange forum posts with them everyday.

And occasionally I have to try to reverse some stupid things they've done. But it's not embarrassing.

. . . However, just because a whole American State is choosing to act the village idiot is not a justification for being rude and personal. . . .

I'll take that under advisement each time I put on my big shoes and baggy pants.


. . . . If you want to do something useful, I'd suggest that you use your vote.

If that's not going to make a difference you could campaign. . . .


And if you want to do something useful, aside from suggesting the obvious, I suggest you learn the difference between laughing with people and laughing at them.

. . . If that's not going to achieve anything either, how can you possibly object if the rest of the world wants to have a laugh?

No objection for having a laugh. I enjoy having a good laugh as often as possible. But I usually wait for something that's actually humorous to come along before I laugh. And I don't consider the dumb things that people in power can do to be all that funny.
 
I don't consider the dumb things that people in power can do to be all that funny.

Neither do I, but this one is a complete stonker, don't you think?

It's miles better than people in charge of science education deciding that all of the chemicals in the science labs have to be stored under lock and key.

These people are answerable to "the" people, aren't they?

"The" people might be feeling a bit sore about the idiots they put in charge, but it still looks hilarious from over here.

Incidentally, British politicians are easily dense enough to do the same thing. When they do, I'll put on my own red nose, stand in Parliament Square, and get arrested. How's that for solidarity?
 


Please, stop the bickering. This is an important issue, and it does a disservice to Scott and the people working on this to get sidetracked into personal squabbles.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Cleon
 
And besides what Cleon just said, Henners comments really are biting and deadly accurate satire. Henners captures my embarrassment quite well.
 
(Thanks Joe!)

Here's a round-up of the news coverage on Chris Comer.
(More thorough list at http://www.wikio.com/news/Chris+Comer)
Asterisked articles are the better ones.

***"State science curriculum director resigns: Move comes months before comprehensive curriculum review."
Austin American-Statesman
November 29, 2007
http://tinyurl.com/2wr2dp
***"TEA Director of Science Forced to Resign"
Texas Citizens for Science
November 29, 2007
http://tinyurl.com/ywx4jl
***"Texas education official forced to resign over evolution"
National Center for Science Education (NCSE)
(undated)
http://tinyurl.com/2vxkdj
"Expelled: Texas Education Agency Fires Staffer for Announcing Talk by Barbara Forrest"
The Panda's Thumb (blog)
November 29, 2007
http://tinyurl.com/2tbpes
***"Americans United Blasts Ouster Of Texas Educator For Supporting Sound Science"
Americans United for the Separation of Church and State November 30, 2007
http://tinyurl.com/2t2lz5
***"Is misdeed a creation of political doctrine?"
Austin American-Statesman
December 1, 2007
http://tinyurl.com/yrn5xt
"State science curriculum director resigns under pressure"
News 8 Austin
December 1, 2007
http://tinyurl.com/2tqbtc
***"Official Leaves Post as Texas Prepares to Debate Science Education Standards"
The New York Times
December 2, 2007
http://tinyurl.com/2nxozz
"Texas Science Curriculum Director Canned for Mentioning Evolution"
Wired Magazine
December 3, 2007
http://tinyurl.com/2g9wbf
***Barbara Forrest on Chris Comer's forced resignation National Center for Science Education (NCSE) December 5, 2007
http://tinyurl.com/3xbqs9
***"Political Watchdog Checks Texas Governor's E-Mail"
NPR, All Things Considered
December 4, 2007
http://tinyurl.com/2u2p6c
***"Support Open Inquiry for All: the Obligation of Christians to Have Learned From History"
The Scriptorium (by a Discovery Institute Fellow) December 5, 2007 http://tinyurl.com/3a5vsx
***"Nothing Neutral About Evolution"
American Institute of Biological Sciences
December 6, 2007 http://tinyurl.com/2j2dav
***"Education workers reined in before curriculum review, ex-administrator says"
December 6, 2007
Austin-American Statesman
http://tinyurl.com/3xspm7
***NPR interview with Chris Comer
NPR
December 7, 2007
http://tinyurl.com/28zko5
***"State rebukes evolution foe" (Florida's analogue, mentions Comer) St. Petersburg Times December 8, 2007 http://tinyurl.com/2jzykh
***Q&A with Commissioner Robert Scott
December 9, 2007
http://tinyurl.com/33v4y3
"Editorial: Science, not faith, belongs in schools"
San Antonio Express-News
December 10, 2007
http://tinyurl.com/33jyb8
***"A reality-based look at science"
St. Peterson Times
December 9, 2007
http://tinyurl.com/26vqcw
"An Open Letter to the Texas Education Agency regarding science education and the termination of Chris Comer"
Society for the Study of Evolution
(undated)
http://tinyurl.com/2olwm8 (PDF)
"Texas biology professors voice support for evolution education"
Associated Press
December 11, 2007
http://tinyurl.com/22u76u (Houston Chronicle)
http://tinyurl.com/26w8ef (FW Star-Telegram)
http://www.elpasotimes.com/ci_7689333 (Elpaso Times)
http://tinyurl.com/yusbof (Dallas Morning News)
***"Biology professors statewide react to science scandal"
Austin American-Statesman
December 11, 2007
http://tinyurl.com/2hhww9
"Texas Biology Professors Weigh In on Science Scandal"
The Chronicle of Higher Education
December 11, 2007
http://tinyurl.com/36p7w4
"Evolution-Creationism Debate Flares After Top Educator's Resignation"
KXAN.com
December 11, 2007
http://tinyurl.com/2sed2z
***"Eight Baylor professors join peers voicing support for evolution education"
Waco Tribune-Herald
December 12, 2007
http://tinyurl.com/2kdytc
The Daily Texan (opinion)
December 12, 2007
http://tinyurl.com/3y9n54
 


Please, stop the bickering. This is an important issue, and it does a disservice to Scott and the people working on this to get sidetracked into personal squabbles.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Cleon


A little too quick there, Cleon.

My exchange with Henners is not worthy of mod box.

And for the record, I am one of the people working on this issues.
 
So, I've sent my letters of indignation. Now I'm just settling down to keep an eye on Don McLeroy and wait for the November 2009 school board elections. Anyone know of a smart, personable theistic evolutionist with experience in teaching and school administration that I can back to run against Terri Leo for district 6 (West Houston area)?

Does anyone know anything about Robert Scott's views? Scott is the Education Commissioner of Texas, appointed by Gov. Rick Perry on Oct. 16, 2007. As far as I understand, he's basically the CEO of the Texas Education Agency (he handles day-to-day operations while the State Board of Education handles broader policy matters).

I can't find anything on Scott's views. But then, considering the policy of "neutrality," I guess that's the idea. Here's what little I found:

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...ocscott_09edi.ART.State.Edition1.370eba7.html
Robert Scott’s interview with the Dallas News on Chris Comer’s forced resignation.
“[Chris Comer] may have given the impression that ... we were taking a position as an agency – not as an individual but as an agency – on a matter….I don't think the impression [that TEA objected to] was that we were taking a position in favor of evolution. We teach evolution in public schools. It's part of our curriculum. But you can be in favor of a science without bashing people's faith, too. I don't know all the facts, but I think that may be the real issue here.”
http://www.texasinsider.org/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1535
Robert Scott’s history with TEA (brief).
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...hwest/stories/101707dntexscott.177b80fff.html
A little more about Scott's history.
http://timpanogos.wordpress.com/2007/10/18/robert-scott-named-to-head-texas-education-agency/
“Scott is a policy wonk, coming out of legislative staff to staff TEA. This is the second time he was acting commissioner. Oddly, he is so little known that it is unclear whether he is the Robert Scott who appears to have acted contrary to ethics and law in an earlier TEA contract problem, or whether it was another TEA employee also named Robert Scott.”


I also started an open Facebook group, "Texans for SCIENCE in Science Class".
http://tamu.facebook.com/group.php?gid=19822288256
 
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So, I've sent my letters of indignation. Now I'm just settling down to keep an eye on Don McLeroy and wait for the November 2009 school board elections. Anyone know of a smart, personable theistic evolutionist with experience in teaching and school administration that I can back to run against Terri Leo for district 6 (West Houston area)?

I also started an open Facebook group, "Texans for SCIENCE in Science Class".
http://tamu.facebook.com/group.php?gid=19822288256

Solution to paragraph one is to send a letter to the Chronicle and direct them to the url in paragraph two.

I read the hard copy of the DMN story a few hours ago and it made me very pessimistic about where this is heading. Reading the quotes by McLeroy, Ramsey and others makes it chillingly clear that we're in the midst of another Creationist attempt to shove their dogma into the classroom whether it belongs there or not.

And just once I'd love to hear what these supposed "weaknesses" of evolution are from the laymen who keep asserting they exist. I'd be surprised if it were any more profound than a PRATT or some tangental claim like "evolution doesn't explain where matter came from."
 
Ouch,

HOUSTON — A Texas higher education panel has recommended allowing a Bible-based group called the Institute for Creation Research to offer online master’s degrees in science education.

The action comes weeks after the Texas Education Agency’s director of science, Christine Castillo Comer, lost her job after superiors accused her of displaying bias against creationism and failing to be “neutral” over the teaching of evolution.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/19/education/19texas.html?_r=1&ref=education&oref=slogin

It's not the public school system but still, this is the same state that headquarters NASA.

At least there's no namby pamby ID stuff they come right out and admit it's Biblical, which for those folks is a step up.
 
Indeed Fidelio.... Ouch

Steven Schafersman, TCS President has written up a detailed article on this.​

http://www.texscience.org/reviews/icr-thecb-certification.htm

Some of my favorite bits:

....I mention IDC to contrast it with the YEC promoted by ICR. Both falsely claim to be devoted to science and to have scientific evidence that supports them, but YEC is a much more vulgar and incredible version of Creationism, one which requires the believer to ignore enormous amounts of evidence from all scientific disciplines and to willingly suspend disbelief and engage in monumental self-deception. ICR's pretension to teach real science is baseless. For the THECB to give ICR certification to grant master's degrees in science education would be a mockery of science and an injustice to students who work hard in legitimate science institutions to earn real master's degrees in science education.....
 
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It's not the public school system but still, this is the same state that headquarters NASA.

I'd again point out Baylor (Baptist) University's statements by the biology and geology departments and note a letter run by DMN a couple of days ago by UT-Austin professors advocating real biology as well as my brief review of the biology textbook that was to be used by JP II high school in Plano. Science is under siege in Texas currently, but there are some surprising (or not so much) educational bastions, be they religious or secular.

Yesterday morning I had a conversation with a new guard we hired who was a former biology teacher and when I mentioned the Chris Comer issue to him he was unaware of it. The conversation eventually led it's way to telling students "you don't have to believe this but it's on the test".

He had a Bible on the desk... and I'll just leave it at that.
 
hmmmm..... Its been removed.

Hmmm. Here's the content (including the dead link from NCSE - paragraph tightening mine since I didn't take the link).
------------------------

TEA personnel issues prompt dicey evolution politics

by William Lutz
Lone Star Report
East Texas Review [Longview, TX]
Friday, December 14, 2007
http://www.easttexasreview.com/story.htm?StoryID=5066

Generally, reporters and political commentators have better things to do than to delve into the minor personnel matters of state agencies.

Such matters are generally technical, and the agency often can’t tell its side of the story.

But when the Texas Education Agency’s (TEA) science director leaves under duress, and the straw that broke the camel’s back was a forwarded email promoting a program from a university professor who opposes the teaching of intelligent design in schools, well, suddenly The New York Times becomes interested.

The issue is particularly noteworthy because the state will soon begin rewriting its science standards.

The departure of Christine Castillo Comer from the Texas Education Agency could be a political issue for the next 18 months or so.

There’s more to this firing/resignation than just a forwarded email. Comer did resign, but, according to TEA documents, Susan Barnes, TEA associate commissioner for standards and programs, had already given permission to fire Comer if she did not resign.

Furthermore, Texas newspapers have spent plenty of ink writing about the negative reaction of Lizzette Reynolds, Barnes’s boss, toward the forwarded email. Reynolds, deputy commissioner for statewide policy and programs, and a former official in the George W. Bush education department, e-mailed other agency staff members expressing concern about the Comer e-mail and the possibility that people could see it as an expression of the agency’s views. Reynolds expressly called for personnel action against Comer.

Most newspapers are portraying the firing as merely a matter of one forwarded e-mail announcing a speaking engagement. This is the spin coming from the pro-evolution Texas Freedom Network and Texas Citizens for Science.

Personnel documents obtained from the Texas Education Agency pursuant to the Texas Open Records Act tell a different story. On Feb. 23, 2007, Comer received a counseling letter (governmentspeak for reprimand) from her immediate supervisor, Monica Martinez. "Over the past several months," Martinez wrote, "I have developed serious
concerns regarding your job performance with respect to your involvement with work outside the agency and failure to follow supervisory directives." The letter then spelled out a series of restrictions on Comer’s conduct, including a requirement for obtaining prior approval before giving science-related presentations and a prohibition on outside communications that "might compromise the transparency and/or integrity of the upcoming TEKS [Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills – the curriculum] development and revision
process."

Comer is accused of violating the restriction in that letter. State agencies do not fire mid-level managers willy-nilly. Personnel documents show that, like most personnel actions, this is the result of a series of incidents that have developed over time.

Like it or not, Robert Scott will have to explain this. Most personnel matters are private. But most personnel matters don’t appear in USA Today.

The publicity surrounding this action, and the accusation that the agency is taking sides on the evolution issue, will undoubtedly be the subject of questions in 2009, when Commissioner of Education Robert Scott has to appear before the Senate for confirmation hearings.

Of course, Scott is no novice at being in the line of fire over agency operations. Soon after his predecessor left, the agency’s inspector general issued a report critical of the Texas Education Agency’s contracting. (The State Auditor reviewed the report and found insufficient evidence of criminal misconduct.)

Scott should start working on his explanation to senators now.

The major newspapers have no tolerance for dissent on the evolution issue. Fealty to evolution may trump racial sensitivity as the ultimate unquestionable in the eyes of most of the major newspaper editorial boards. To the national media, anyone who points out concerns about evolution or tries to critique it is portrayed as a cross between a Luddite, a member of the Flat Earth Society, and Pope Urban VIII, who made Galileo recant his view that the Sun is the center of the Solar System.

Even people who make well-thought-out critiques of Darwin are accused of trying to cram their religious views down others’ throats.

Social and religious conservatives need to keep this in mind when deciding how to address the issue of evolution and biology.

Evolution is a politically dicey issue, a fact that many religious conservatives don’t recognize. Bluntly, any attempt to remove evolution from the curriculum or put any discussion of intelligent design in scares the living daylights out of many moderate or suburban Republicans – especially those with scientific backgrounds. Even discussing the pros and cons of evolution can cause political problems. Many Americans view it either as a government imposition of religion or political tampering with science or both.

Socially conservative members of the State Board of Education (SBOE) have made lots of progress in the last few years. They recently removed a fuzzy math book from the approved textbook list. Their ideas to make the English curriculum more grade-level-specific, measurable, and based on phonics in the early grades are gaining traction. They now have a working majority on the board on many issues.

But an evolution controversy places all that at risk. In Kansas, board control has alternated between conservatives and self-styled moderates. Evolution sometimes gets board members beat in Republican primaries.

In Plano, an evolution controversy in the mid-1990s caused
conservative local school board members to get beat. The current
school board is still supporting fuzzy math in Plano schools and
raising taxes.

During the debate over the TEKS in 1995, SBOE conservatives were accused of trying to force religion into the classroom -- even though their objections to the TEKS had nothing to do with religion -- precisely because their opponents knew how politically potent a card this is.

The real question is not what the state board members do, it’s how they do it. Concern about evolution and how it is taught is a deeply and sincerely held view by many board members and their constituents.

But -- if they want to avoid serious political repercussions -- they have to think about how to present this issue. In particular, they have to address concerns about forcing religious views on students or political tampering with science.

For better or for worse, the press has transformed a routine personnel matter into a national debate on the role of evolution in the classroom. True. Both the board members and officials with the Texas Education Agency emphatically state the board had nothing to do with this. But for better or for worse, it has become the first salvo in a statewide discussion over how to teach biology in public schools.
--------------------------------------
I've read less editorially laden "news stories" on blogs for Chrissakes.
 
Perhaps it's time for a thread dedicated to the IDiots in Florida. Some more have popped up. The Taylor County, FL School Board unanimously passed a resolution that contained the following (bolding mine):

Whereas, the Florida Department of Education has drafted and is now proposing new Sunshine State Standards for Science, the Taylor County School Board opposes the implementation of the new standards as currently presented.

Whereas, the new Sunshine State Standards for Science no longer present evolution as theory but as “the fundamental concept underlying all of biology and is supported in multiple forms of scientific evidence,” we are requesting that the State Board of Education direct the Florida Department of Education to revise/edit the new Sunshine State Standards for Science so that evolution is presented as one of several theories as to how the universe was formed.

Whereas, the Taylor County School Board recognizes the importance of providing a thorough and comprehensive Science education to all the students in Taylor County and to all students in the state of Florida, it recognizes as even more important the need to present these standards through a fair and balanced approach, an approach that does not unfairly exclude other theories as to the creation of the universe.

NOW THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED by the Taylor County School Board of Taylor County, Perry, Florida, that the Board urges the State Board of Education to direct the Florida Department of Education to revise the new Sunshine State Standards for Science such that evolution is not presented as fact, but as one of several theories.

See more at http://www.flascience.org/wp/?p=377
 
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. . . . we are requesting that the State Board of Education direct the Florida Department of Education to revise/edit the new Sunshine State Standards for Science so that evolution is presented as one of several theories as to how the universe was formed.

The only good thing I see about this is that Texas (my humble origin) is not quite the stupidest state.
 

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