Is Science getting closer to God and the Bible?

[Foster Zygote]

For sake of accuracy
my PhD is in Chemical Engineering. (thesis work in drug delivery)
My NIH NRSA post doctoral experience was in pharmacology, specifically vascular oxidative stress.
I do not have an MD.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were an MD. But you do have expertise in the subject at hand in the form of a Ph.D. I just find it annoying but typical that DOC can ignore what you have told him then expect us to buy that he has been vindicated by his appeal to authority to the author of a book that I doubt he has read and does not actually support his claim.

 

[kmortis]

Do you have any source for the sentence I put in bold.

Yup. Not that I'll post it though. It'll be wasted on you, and the others here know where to find out that kind of information, if they're interested.

Pound sand.

 

[Hokulele]

Oh, DOC, there is a clear difference between transient oxidative stress and persistent oxidative stress.

<bunch of neat stuff>

Hey! I understood all that! I doubt DOC did, however. Neat, thanks joobz.

DOC, I am quite serious when I say that you are plain and simply wrong on this subject. Your attempt at finding evidence to avoid admiting this was a waste of time. You could have saved yourself much effort and gained some respect had you simply admitted that you made a mistake and made a claim that was patently wrong.

Well, even DOC should be able to understand that.

 

[wahrheit]

Yup. Not that I'll post it though. It'll be wasted on you, and the others here know where to find out that kind of information, if they're interested.

Which I just did. See DOC, it's pretty easy in fact.

Two minutes ago I talked to a professor of Ancient Greek and Latin. That's one of those people who actually can read and understand those languages, including the original scripts, not the summary of a children's encyclopedia. He said that Tacitus is a very interesting guy and source, of course, but not an unbiased source of information.

You have to understand the time he lived in, the political and societal circumstances back then to interpret his writings correctly and put them into context.

DOC, previously in this thread you were asked if you actually read any work by Tacitus, and you answered yes. I just had a look at some of his writings. I would be truly amazed if you actually read that stuff. It's written in Latin, after all.

 

[kmortis]

Hey! I understood all that! I doubt DOC did, however. Neat, thanks joobz.

Well, even DOC should be able to understand that.

I highly doubt that.

Which I just did. See DOC, it's pretty easy in fact.

Two minutes ago I talked to a professor of Ancient Greek and Latin. That's one of those people who actually can read and understand those languages, including the original scripts, not the summary of a children's encyclopedia. He said that Tacitus is a very interesting guy and source, of course, but not an unbiased source of information.

You have to understand the time he lived in, the political and societal circumstances back then to interpret his writings correctly and put them into context.

DOC, previously in this thread you were asked if you actually read any work by Tacitus, and you answered yes. I just had a look at some of his writings. I would be truly amazed if you actually read that stuff. It's written in Latin, after all.

Full disclosure time: I've just (as in the last month or so) have gotten serious about learning about the Roman Empire. I've gotten through a REALLY good lecture series (from the Teaching Company, in case any one's interested), and I'm starting to collect the English translations of as many primary sources as I can get my grubby fat hands on. I've briefly read Tacitus, and Josephus, but mainly the parts that relate to the historicity of Jesus. I'm going to attempt to make my way through as much as I can, before the translation (which tends to be rather dry) gets on my nerves. I know that there are copies available on Project Gutenburg, so I'll be starting there.

I cannot read Greek or Latin, so I'm sticking to the English. I wish I had a better Classical education, but dems da breaks.

Sweet! PG also has Gibbon! It might be a bit dated, but it's still chocked full of historical goodness.

 

[joobz]

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were an MD. But you do have expertise in the subject at hand in the form of a Ph.D. I just find it annoying but typical that DOC can ignore what you have told him then expect us to buy that he has been vindicated by his appeal to authority to the author of a book that I doubt he has read and does not actually support his claim.

I knew you weren't implying otherwise. I simply was trying to avoid any potential missunderstandings which could be exploited as an argument diversion. not that I have any reason to think that any poster here would do such a thing.

 

[DOC]

There is also another book about the Oxygen therapy partly written by a doctor call "Hyperbolic Oxygen Therapy"

It says this in the summary

HBOT is used worldwide for various injuries including various poisonings, and crushed wound injuries (sic - car accidents, etc.). HBOT is used in many advanced countries including UK, Italy, Russia, Japan and China (and many poorer countries) for treating closed wound brain injuries from birth, accidents, or strokes. HBOT is not accepted by the US medical community, yet, due to the lack of double-blinded studies as well as due to the lack of understanding of the underlying physiology. Note: the underlying physiology of approximately 50% of the drugs listed in the Physician's Desk Reference are poorly understood.

HBOT has been clinically demonstrated to be effective in treating a variety of closed wound brain damage injuries by enabling the body to re-establish damaged blood vessels, and by "waking up" neurons made dormant from injuries.

http://www.amazon.com/review/produc...98057-4393516?_encoding=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

 

[arthwollipot]

"Hyperbolic"? Or "Hyperbaric"?

Although I admit - alternative therapies are frequently a lot of hyperbole.

 

[Hokulele]

And how is any of that relevant to longer lifespan?

 

[joobz]

There is also another book about the Oxygen therapy partly written by a doctor call "Hyperbolic Oxygen Therapy"

It says this in the summary

HBOT is used worldwide for various injuries including various poisonings, and crushed wound injuries (sic - car accidents, etc.). HBOT is used in many advanced countries including UK, Italy, Russia, Japan and China (and many poorer countries) for treating closed wound brain injuries from birth, accidents, or strokes. HBOT is not accepted by the US medical community, yet, due to the lack of double-blinded studies as well as due to the lack of understanding of the underlying physiology. Note: the underlying physiology of approximately 50% of the drugs listed in the Physician's Desk Reference are poorly understood.

HBOT has been clinically demonstrated to be effective in treating a variety of closed wound brain damage injuries by enabling the body to re-establish damaged blood vessels, and by "waking up" neurons made dormant from injuries.

http://www.amazon.com/review/produc...98057-4393516?_encoding=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

It's Hyperbaric (as in high pressure)
Presenting more books on HBO doesn't help your point. Did you read my explanation why HBO therapy isn't relevant to your point? If you have any questions, I'd be happy to clarify.

 

[DOC]

If some of you don't like the increased oxygen theory to explain the longer lifespans may you might find this one of interest:

From the article "living for 900 years" by Carl Wieland

"However, one simple explanation of why Noah still lived for so long is that Noah’s genetic make-up was what gave him the potential to live so long. And that perhaps most, if not all, people before the Flood were programmed for much longer lifespans than we are programmed for today.

So what happened? Remember that the whole population shrank to just a handful. There are well known ways in which forms of genes (known as alleles), which could include any coding for longer lifespans, can be eliminated from a population that has gone through such a ‘bottleneck’ — down to eight people."

http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v20/i4/years.asp

 

[joobz]

If some of you don't like the increased oxygen theory to explain the longer lifespans[snip]

It's not that I don't like it, it's just scientifically completely wrong.
Perhaps truth and fiction are unimportant to you, but I much rather know the truth. It may mean that I can be periodically wrong, but so much the better.

 

[Foster Zygote]

It's Hyperbaric (as in high pressure)
Presenting more books on HBO doesn't help your point. Did you read my explanation why HBO therapy isn't relevant to your point? If you have any questions, I'd be happy to clarify.

DOC's just citing another book he hasn't read. I get the feeling that if he did make an attempt at reading your explanation he probably got the same look on his face that my dog would get when I put her on the phone.

 

[kmortis]

If some of you don't like the increased oxygen theory to explain the longer lifespans may you might find this one of interest:

From the article "living for 900 years" by Carl Wieland

"However, one simple explanation of why Noah still lived for so long is that Noah’s genetic make-up was what gave him the potential to live so long. And that perhaps most, if not all, people before the Flood were programmed for much longer lifespans than we are programmed for today.

So what happened? Remember that the whole population shrank to just a handful. There are well known ways in which forms of genes (known as alleles), which could include any coding for longer lifespans, can be eliminated from a population that has gone through such a ‘bottleneck’ — down to eight people."

http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v20/i4/years.asp

Nope. Don't like that one much better. Although, it does have the whole advantage of being COMPLETELY fictional. Good job. Got a jar of Noahic sperm samples sitting around your living room, do you?

 

[Foster Zygote]

From the article "living for 900 years" by Carl Wieland

"However, one simple explanation of why Noah still lived for so long is that Noah’s genetic make-up was what gave him the potential to live so long.

That's not a simple explanation, that's wild speculation without a shred of corroborating evidence.

 

[six7s]

Oh, DOC, there is a clear difference between transient oxidative stress and persistent oxidative stress.

<bunch of neat stuff>

Hey! I understood all that! I doubt DOC did, however. Neat, thanks joobz.

Well, even DOC should be able to understand that.

DOC may well understand it, but will he accept it?

I suspect not

Two minutes ago I talked to a professor of Ancient Greek and Latin...

Reading that made me feel SO lucky to be alive at this time, when teh interwebs can, and so often do, reduce six (real) degrees of Kevin Bacon to (virtually) one or two

 

[joobz]

If some of you don't like the increased oxygen theory to explain the longer lifespans may you might find this one of interest:

From the article "living for 900 years" by Carl Wieland

"However, one simple explanation of why Noah still lived for so long is that Noah’s genetic make-up was what gave him the potential to live so long. And that perhaps most, if not all, people before the Flood were programmed for much longer lifespans than we are programmed for today.

So what happened? Remember that the whole population shrank to just a handful. There are well known ways in which forms of genes (known as alleles), which could include any coding for longer lifespans, can be eliminated from a population that has gone through such a ‘bottleneck’ — down to eight people."

http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v20/i4/years.asp

Funny thing about what you say here is that it relies upon evolutionary theory. In particular, it is describing punctuated evolution. So, is evolution real or isn't it?

 

[joobz]

Reading that made me feel SO lucky to be alive at this time, when teh interwebs can, and so often do, reduce six (real) degrees of Kevin Bacon to (virtually) one or two

It's what I love about this site. The number of people here with a true love of learning with such a variety of background.

 

[kmortis]

It's what I love about this site. The number of people here with a true love of learning with such a variety of background.

Don't forget the corndogs. Can never forget the corndogs....

 

[wollery]

If some of you don't like the increased oxygen theory to explain the longer lifespans may you might find this one of interest:

From the article "living for 900 years" by Carl Wieland

"However, one simple explanation of why Noah still lived for so long is that Noah’s genetic make-up was what gave him the potential to live so long. And that perhaps most, if not all, people before the Flood were programmed for much longer lifespans than we are programmed for today.

So what happened? Remember that the whole population shrank to just a handful. There are well known ways in which forms of genes (known as alleles), which could include any coding for longer lifespans, can be eliminated from a population that has gone through such a ‘bottleneck’ — down to eight people."

http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v20/i4/years.asp

And you really don't see the problem with this theory?

According to this theory everyone alive today is a direct descendant of Noah, and should therefore have those self-same longevity genes.

Unless you believe in evolution......