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Former Italian President says 911 inside job

Astute:

Well we agree on one thing! The first translation is garbage.

Let us focus on the second, then, shall we? It is what skeptics do.

Putting aside everything else, you'll note the phrase "all democratic elements of America and Europe, and especially the Italian center-left."

All democratic elements? What do you think that means?

More importantly, "especially the Italian center-left." That is curious, don't you agree? Why is he talking about "del centrosinistra italiano"?

At you will note that the original article is called "Osama-Berlusconi." What are your thoughts?

Do you care to see a full translation?
 
Tokorona said:
It actually does not matter, at all, what the Italian President thinks if he cannot prove it.
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Once again...you are putting the burdon of proof on a person, rather than the COURTS.

That's what a real investigation is for...You have no idea if he can "prove" it or not.

There were many many people lost from "other" countries. I am sure there will be an outside investigation to find out how their people were murdered.
 
Astute Perspicuous said:
Since when did it become OUR job to provide "evidence"?

All we are trying to say is that the "official" story is a complete hoax and a "real" investigation is needed.

That is the purpose of a "real" investigation and not the whitewash that was carried out before.
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stundie material!
 
Perhaps Henry62 can assist with an accurate translation.

(ETA: Actually, now that I think of it, his site is in Italian but he has it translated into English by someone else, I believe.)
 
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16.5 said:
Astute:

Well we agree on one thing! The first translation is garbage.

Let us focus on the second, then, shall we? It is what skeptics do.

Putting aside everything else, you'll note the phrase "all democratic elements of America and Europe, and especially the Italian center-left."

All democratic elements? What do you think that means?

More importantly, "especially the Italian center-left." That is curious, don't you agree? Why is he talking about "del centrosinistra italiano"?

At you will note that the original article is called "Osama-Berlusconi." What are your thoughts?

Do you care to see a full translation?
Click to expand...


Yes...I do agree 100% that many in the truth movement glorify certain things to make a statement...but....nonetheless that does not mean that the message is wrong.

All democratic elements? I would have to say he means both the left and right.

"especially the Italian center-left." I am not familiar enough with Italian politics.
Do you care to see a full translation? Yes
 
All I know about Italian politics is Cicciolina was a member of their Parliament.

cicciolina3.jpg


So "yay Italy." :D
 
tomwaits said:
stundie material!
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There is my point EXACTLY. You try and get us to form an opinion. When we refuse to form a "theory" you call people stundi material.

You will not get me to promote a theory...capeesh?!?

It's OUR job to prove there is REASONABLE SPECULATION that a crime has happened.

Just like if a person "Thinks" that their neighbor is stealing their mail. It is NOT the job of the victim to prove it, it is the victim's job to call authorities who form and investigation.

So...Yes, I would have to say that YOU are perfect STUNDIE MATERIAL.
 
Once again...you are putting the burdon of proof on a person, rather than the COURTS.

That's what a real investigation is for...You have no idea if he can "prove" it or not.

There were many many people lost from "other" countries. I am sure there will be an outside investigation to find out how their people were murdered.
Click to expand...

He's right. This is stundie material. If you make a claim, you must back it up with evidence. It's a basic precept.
 
Astute Perspicuous said:
There is my point EXACTLY. You try and get us to form an opinion. When we refuse to form a "theory" you call people stundi material.

You will not get me to promote a theory...capeesh?!?

It's OUR job to prove there is REASONABLE SPECULATION that a crime has happened.

Just like if a person "Thinks" that their neighbor is stealing their mail. It is NOT the job of the victim to prove it, it is the victim's job to call authorities who form and investigation.

So...Yes, I would have to say that YOU are perfect STUNDIE MATERIAL.
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Fine. But the speculation must also be backedup by valid evidence. :rolleyes:
 
Tokorona said:
He's right. This is stundie material. If you make a claim, you must back it up with evidence. It's a basic precept.
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Stundie all you want...I have NOT promoted ANY THEORY. It is a fact that many people from other countries were killed on 911.

Love how when you are on the ropes, you yell stundie. Your stundies matter not to me at all.

Fact is...it is NOT our job to "prove" anything. Let me requote it again for you to make it clear.

Just like if a person "Thinks" that their neighbor is stealing their mail. It is NOT the job of the victim to prove it, it is the victim's job to call authorities who form and investigation.
Click to expand...
 
Astute Perspicuous said:
Just like if a person "Thinks" that their neighbor is stealing their mail. It is NOT the job of the victim to prove it, it is the victim's job to call authorities who form and investigation.
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So how's that working out for your team? What authorities have you called and what was their response?
 
Tokorona said:
Fine. But the speculation must also be backedup by valid evidence. :rolleyes:
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Yup, we're skeptics. If we were gummit shills or close-minded sheep like you guys like to pretend we are then Astute would be onto something. Instead, we go where the VERIFIABLE evidence takes us.

A thousand pounds of speculation equals exactly one turd around here without something to back it up.
 
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Astute Perspicuous said:
Stundie all you want...I have NOT promoted ANY THEORY. It is a fact that many people from other countries were killed on 911.

Love how when you are on the ropes, you yell stundie. Your stundies matter not to me at all.

Fact is...it is NOT our job to "prove" anything. Let me requote it again for you to make it clear.
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So I can call your local authorities and say you molest children and they won't ask me for proof?
 
Astute Perspicuous said:
Stundie all you want...I have NOT promoted ANY THEORY.
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here it is, within this thread:
All we are trying to say is that the "official" story is a complete hoax
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This is what I call a theory. To convince us of this, you will need some evidence. Just calling it "fact" is not going to cut it. Don't like it? Too bad. We're skeptics. It's what we do.
 
DGM said:
So I can call your local authorities and say you molest children and they won't ask me for proof?
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Nope...they will ask you "WHY" you would think such a thing. They would ask you for your "speculation" as to "why" you think such a thing is happening.

It is up to them to "prove" it.

Nice subtle try at degradation.
 
tomwaits said:
here it is, within this thread:



This is what I call a theory. To convince us of this, you will need some evidence. Just calling it "fact" is not going to cut it. Don't like it? Too bad. We're skeptics. It's what we do.
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Yes...the KEYWORD is "I". This is what "YOU" call a theory. What science calls a theory is 2 different things.

In science, a theory is a mathematical or logical explanation, or a testable model of the manner of interaction of a set of natural phenomena, capable of predicting future occurrences or observations of the same kind, and capable of being tested through experiment or otherwise falsified through empirical observation.

or dictionary def

a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world; an organized system of accepted knowledge that applies in a variety of ...
hypothesis: a tentative theory about the natural world; a concept that is not yet verified but that if true would explain certain facts or phenomena; "a scientific hypothesis that survives experimental testing becomes a scientific theory"; "he proposed a fresh theory of alkalis that later was ...
a belief that can guide behavior; "the architect has a theory that more is less"; "they killed him on the theory that dead men tell no tales"
 
Actually, your neighbor analogy isn't cutting it.

What you have is a case where they'vew already investigated your missing mail. They found some guys that had bits of it and confessed to the crime.

You're saying they are wrong, that they planted the evidence, and that a new investigation needs to be done.

Changes the scene a bit, doesn't it? Here's a clue for you, the courts won't allow you to re-try someone for the same crime, so if you're talking about courts then you're way off base. The police already marked the case as "closed", and they won't re-open it unless there's new evidence that calls that resolution into question.

So sorry, you're still at the point of needing evidence. Pretending you're just asking for an investigation is dishonest and ridiculous. The investigation has already been done. Now, you need to present some sort of reason to show that investigation was faulty, or some sort of new evidence that creates a reason for a new investigation.

What your doing is the same as the police who try to get an open warrant from a judge because they "really think this is the guy". If they have no evidence, it's just a fishing expedition...and one of those violations of rights you truthers keep yelling about.

Essentially, you have insufficient grounds for your warrant. Denied.
 
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