Is Science getting closer to God and the Bible?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Doc, Why quote this idiot. The article says
It’s a sobering fact that the maximum human lifespan of about 120 years has remained unchanged since humans began recording their ages thousands of years ago
We both know that the ages recorded in the bible give lifespans well in excess of 120 years.

The article concludes “there is no viable way of doing it” (lengthening lifespans)

Why quote someone who questions the inerrant word of God, master of the heavens, sender of plagues, slaughterer of children and hater of shellfish ?

How can you call yourself a real Christian when twice in a short time you rubbish the bible ?
 
Estimates of the age at death of human remains dated from 4,000 years ago come frm dentition, the skull and centres of ossificiation. These give average life spans of about 20 to 30 years old.

If the extended lifespans reported in the bible are not just for the biblical patriarchs but for all people how do explain this discrepancy?
 
According to this author Nitric Oxide (Nitrogen and Oxygen) is effected when people have a reduced caloric diet (the only known way to increase lifespan). And also, if the people preflood had food with much higher nutrients they would certainly have a reduced caloric diet because of the higher nutrients in their food.
I hope you realize that NO production if effected by a whole NUMBER of things. And anyay, we are talking about oxygen not NO. these are different molecules with completely different functions in the body. For one thing, your body PRODUCES NO, while it NEED O2 from the atmosphere. So, to reference this is a non-sequitor in the question of if oxygen would increase life span.
But, to your credit, you are right. It has been shown that animals which eat less live longer than animals of the same species who eat more. But, this goes toward the metabolism argument of life.

ANimals with faster matebolisms live shorter lives than animals with slower metabolisms. Even within the sam species. Since, oxygen is the other key compenent of metabolism, you would expect increased metabolic activity with increaed oxygen content. Therefore, you would have a decrease in lifespans of animals under increased sustained oxygen environments.

However, you would likely have multiple compensetory mechanisms functioning which would limit this effect (reduced RBC count, increased expression of antioxidant enzymes). The greatest issue to increased o2 in the atmosphere is a increase in pulmonary damage as a result of oxidation. Since at the same pressure, you wouldn't have any increase in the disolved o2 content in the plasma, there for RBC would be still the primary carriers of oxygen. As a result, you would simply pick up o2 into hemoglobin more rapidly in the lungs.

Again, your claim that it would result in increased lifespans is completely unfounded and stupid.

And its also a possibility that increased oxygen in the blood would make the heart not have to work as hard.
No, false. see above.

DOC, I recommend you dropping this argument and admitting you made a claim you had no reason to make. You are just patently wrong here and admission of the fact is the only honorable thing to do.

---
ETA:
Conti B, Sanchez-Alavez M, Winsky-Sommerer R, Morale MC, Lucero J, Brownell S, Fabre V, Huitron-Resendiz S, Henriksen S, Zorrilla EP, de Lecea L, Bartfai T. Transgenic mice with a reduced core body temperature have an increased life span. Science. 2006 Nov 3;314(5800):825-8.
abstract said:
Reduction of core body temperature has been proposed to contribute to the increased life span and the antiaging effects conferred by calorie restriction (CR). Validation of this hypothesis has been difficult in homeotherms, primarily due to a lack of experimental models. We report that transgenic mice engineered to overexpress the uncoupling protein 2 in hypocretin neurons (Hcrt-UCP2) have elevated hypothalamic temperature. The effects of local temperature elevation on the central thermostat resulted in a 0.3 degrees to 0.5 degrees C reduction of the core body temperature. Fed ad libitum, Hcrt-UCP2 transgenic mice had the same caloric intake as their wild-type littermates but had increased energy efficiency and a greater median life span (12% increase in males; 20% increase in females). Thus, modest, sustained reduction of core body temperature prolonged life span independent of altered diet or CR
What do you think correlates with a reduced core temperature? Yes, it is a reduced metabolic rate. Another way of saying that is a reduction in oxygen utilization, further supporting my point.
 
Last edited:
I see the experiment was done on "houseflies". And I wasn't able to get to the site when I hit your link.

And even if elevated oxygen levels is detrimental to humans now, that doesn't mean it wasn't beneficial in some way to humans who lived in the preflood days.

And just because mustard gas is toxic to humans now doesn't mean that it wasn't a nutritious treat for people five thousand years ago.
 
A search of Will Block at PubMed preduced nothing in the first 20 hits.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez

I have a feeling that further investigation would have proven equally unfruitful.

I should have noted this earlier. First, the fact that the "source" DOC sites is a .com website with an obviously AltMed scam URL rings alarms for me before even clicking on it. Second, I did another PubMed search for "Nitric Oxide Longevity" and came up with the similar bupkiss results I did when searching for Will Block.

It's hardly worth pointing out to anyone but the lurkers since all of the respondants I have seen in this thread are aware of it, but one of the dangers of Creationism is that it leads people to consider all of science - including medicine as an evil conspiracy and that in turn leads them to embrace AltMed because it's not tainted by the machinery of the Satanic NWO or whatever.

Can we all say together - "I'm Shocked... Shocked that DOC would cite an AltMed, commercial, conspiracy site rather than a peer reviewed article when "supporting" his assertion that certain environmental conditions can make people live 120 years... 840 short of Methuselah?"
 
Last edited:
Just to build on what Cleon is saying, if you actually start to get into ancient history as a serious hobby (as there are few that can take it up as a profession), the first thing you learn is that while there are written texts describing this period or that, they are of wildly varing quality. In terms of accuracy, depth of description, or what have you, they are a good starting point, but they need to be backed by harder evidence.

For example, try finding archelogical evidence for the events described by Lineaus (or Livineaus...I can't remember his name, but it began with an "L" and he wrote about the Roman Regal period) about the Roman Kings. He only wrote about seven kings reigning over ~250 years. I'll leave the math on that to the user.

Basically, it's all well and good that Tactius and Joseph wrote about Moses. When, in realtion to when Moses "lived" were they writing? If it's more than a generation or two, it's best to treat it as them writing down a commonly held myth, as the concept of history as a scholary persuit is a recent (read: within the last 100 years) invention.

This same issue arrises with Biblical criticism as well. The "historical" authors weren't worried about being accurate, but rather to lay the ground work for a theological basis.

Then there's the fact that archaeologists have found that not all of the cities that Joshua was said to conquer actually existed at the time. The Bible contains elements of actual history; there may have been a Moses and a Joshua. It's possible that they were actually the same person and two different versions of a legend were incorporated into the writing of the Bible. But the thing DOC fails (or refuses) to realize is that these things were written down many generations after they occurred. In oral traditions historical accuracy usually takes a back seat to entertainment value and reenforcement of cultural beliefs and morals.
 
Then there's the fact that archaeologists have found that not all of the cities that Joshua was said to conquer actually existed at the time. The Bible contains elements of actual history; there may have been a Moses and a Joshua. It's possible that they were actually the same person and two different versions of a legend were incorporated into the writing of the Bible. But the thing DOC fails (or refuses) to realize is that these things were written down many generations after they occurred. In oral traditions historical accuracy usually takes a back seat to entertainment value and reenforcement of cultural beliefs and morals.

And many of the Biblical stories are demonstrably retellings of stories from other cultures. Noah's flood is an obviously modified version of a Mesopotamian fable from the epic of Gilgamesh.

Studying how these stories adapted and changed over the millenia is absolutely fascinating, and it's really unfortunate that people like DOC prefer to view the Bible as a history book. It's not, never was, and (IMO) was never meant to be so. What it is is a fascinating look at the psychology and cultural outlooks of ancient peoples, and how they changed over the centuries. To see it as DOC does is myopic, and really misses out on a lot.
 
DOC has already admitted that he doesn't really care about the credibility or accuracy of his sources, just that they are on the internet is good enough for him. I don't know if he's a troll or just a complete moron, but this really is how he operates. If he can find any link to support his beliefs, he'll post it, even if it's a parody site.
 
Just wanted to pop by and give an answer to the original question:

Is Science getting closer to God and the Bible?

:notm

Every discovery we make takes us farther away from assertions made in that book. That's exactly what we would expect if its contents were dreamed up by our ancestors thousands of years ago. The alternate hypothesis, that its contents were divinely inspired, seems more doubtful with each discovery.

Carry on.
 
Last edited:
DOC has already admitted that he doesn't really care about the credibility or accuracy of his sources, just that they are on the internet is good enough for him. I don't know if he's a troll or just a complete moron, but this really is how he operates. If he can find any link to support his beliefs, he'll post it, even if it's a parody site.

It's kind of sad, but I have to agree. Even the last sentence regarding a link to a parody site is accurate and not overstated, in my opinion.
 
It's kind of sad, but I have to agree. Even the last sentence regarding a link to a parody site is accurate and not overstated, in my opinion.
Very true. I'm just curious to see how far he'll actually try to carry his "people were different back then" claims.

Make sure we all bathe in oxygen to prolong our lives!
 
Very true. I'm just curious to see how far he'll actually try to carry his "people were different back then" claims.

Make sure we all bathe in oxygen to prolong our lives!
They didn't bathe in it back then. They drank it in liquid form. Being hot in the desert, this solved their dehydration issues. Being high on the slopes of Mount Horeb and later on the slopes of Mount Nebo, this solved their thin-oxygen-at-high-altitudes problem. Being genocidal in the Promised Land, this solved their........their.........well, it didn't solve any problem in the Promised Land but it certainly didn't prevent them being genocidal.
 
Every discovery we make takes us farther away from assertions made in that book. That's exactly what we would expect if its contents were dreamed up by our ancestors thousands of years ago. The alternate hypothesis, that its contents were divinely inspired, seems more doubtful with each discovery.

Remember though that DOC seems only interested in his evangelical brownie points.

Nothing he posts has to be factual in any way (and usually isn't), just promoting his choice of one of the 38,000+ brands of Christianity to gain Heaven Points.

Personally, I think DOC has acquired enough Heaven Points to get a good seat.

I'm nearly getting to the point where I wish he would just hurry up and go.

.
 
Last edited:
assertion that certain environmental conditions can make people live 120 years... 840 short of Methuselah?"
I've always thought there must be some kind of month/year confusion going on with that set of biblical ages. 960 months is 80 years (probably a little less, if by "month" you mean a lunar cycle), which WOULD have made Methuselah ancient by the standards of his time, but not supernaturally ancient by the standards of ours.
 
Remember though that DOC seems only interested in his evangelical brownie points.
Meh. I just dropped by to post my thoughts for any interested lurkers and to talk with interesting folks like yourself. I could give a **** about DOC or his interests. Trying to communicate with someone whose mind is that closed is a waste of time. DOC will never change his mind. His brain is hard wired with defenses against critical thinking. Dialog with someone who refuses to even pretend to give the other side of chance is completely boring. His posts have been repeat theater from day one.
 
I've always thought there must be some kind of month/year confusion going on with that set of biblical ages. 960 months is 80 years (probably a little less, if by "month" you mean a lunar cycle), which WOULD have made Methuselah ancient by the standards of his time, but not supernaturally ancient by the standards of ours.

I think the story is purely legendary because he had the good fortune to die the year of the Flood, but a quick Strong's check of the verse that mentions how many years he lived shows the word used while almost always translated as year in the KJV, also means a period of time, not necessarily a year.
 
Last edited:
DOC has already admitted that he doesn't really care about the credibility or accuracy of his sources, just that they are on the internet is good enough for him. I don't know if he's a troll or just a complete moron, but this really is how he operates. If he can find any link to support his beliefs, he'll post it, even if it's a parody site.

I won't even dignify your post with a comment except to say I guess the people (including yourself) who are responsible for the 70,000 hits to my 12 threads just like to enter the threads of trolls and morons.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/search.php?searchid=1203914
 
Last edited:
I won't even dignify your post with a comment except to say I guess the people (including yourself) who are responsible for the 70,000 hits to my 12 threads just like to enter the threads of trolls and morons

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/search.php?searchid=1203914

As a lurker to this thread, I would like to confirm that I like to enter the threads of trolls and morons. They're good fun, and I often learn from the knowledgeable folk who rebut the trolls and morons.

Carry on.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom