Apparently, my RPGs have gone woo.

[e-sabbath]

Independent Study program, far as I can tell. BA, though.

Oh, I'm not saying that the author ain't a neopagan slightly looney. Cause he is. And he believes in what he does. But the book itself is damn useful, and quite interesting.

Oh, and complete lack of woo? Twilight: 2000.

Paranoia... hm. Does it actually _have_ woo in it? It's got quite a bit of handwaving and bulldada, but it's not, ah, technically woo.

On the other hand, the first version of the Tom Clancy Ghost Recon had that heartbeat sensor based on one of those electronic dowsing gizmos.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I read it, but I'm not convinced.

Reading the flavor script, it sells itself as "real, authentic thaumaturgy". I'm not supposed to take it seriously, but then it says that the author is an "occultist".

Read the Munchkins Guide to Power Gaming.

Let's just put it this way: Can you cast spells, or use magic in the real world? The book seems to suggest that it's possible. Maybe it's not saying as such, but that's the way it seemed to me, and you haven't really seemed to dismiss that notion in my mind.

Otherwise, if it's just selling the history of actual belief in magic and how to use it in RPGs, then that's cool. In fact, I actually want to pick up a copy. It's still cool stuff to use, as long as it's actually based in historical belief instead of "what I made up at the grocery store today"-type fantasy that's so prevalent today.



Well, I just have a question... what's an occultist, and why would one be good for writing books?

Wait, I also have another question:

How can you be the only person to earn a degree in anything? According to the selling script:

That is easy they changed the rules to prevent such idiocy after he did it.

How can you be the only one to gain a degree? There's only one professor, and you're the only student to apply?

No at the time you could design your own degree, he did and it was magic(or majik or magick or...). Then after he did that the administration put a stop to such foolishness.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Back when I used to do tarot readings, I found that the "Deck Of Many Things" from AD&D 1st Edition worked just as well - which means it didn't work at all, but I could make the client think that it did.

But there was something else ... it was only after RPG's started becoming popular in the 1980's that I noticed a simultaneous codification of magical principles among New Age believers. For instance "I Abjure Thee" became the wooist way of saying "Get Lost" - from the AD&D school of Abjuration magic.

I play Traveller - "Science-Fiction Adventure in the Far Future" - and the only overtly wooist concepts are Psionics, Faster-than light travel (through "Jumpspace," of course), and Gravity control.

Hey what about Father? Quasi devine beings count as woo to me.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Independent Study program, far as I can tell. BA, though.

Oh, I'm not saying that the author ain't a neopagan slightly looney. Cause he is. And he believes in what he does. But the book itself is damn useful, and quite interesting.

Oh, and complete lack of woo? Twilight: 2000.

Paranoia... hm. Does it actually _have_ woo in it? It's got quite a bit of handwaving and bulldada, but it's not, ah, technically woo.

Look at the psy powers.

 

[e-sabbath]

Duh, forgot about 'em. Spycraft is cinematic... probably could find some woo there. TFOS? Right out.

TOON? If everything's insane, nothing is!

 

[Lonewulf]

I think that the main confusion here is that people seem to think "magic in gaming", whereas I'm thinking "games that claim their magic is real"...

I'm not saying that the book ain't useful, just that the author is a woo. And apparently, he is. He just happened to make a good book while he was at it.

The Munchkin's Guide to Power Gaming is an interesting reference, but I'm not convinced that one book is equal to another. One guy authors Munchkin, another guy authors Authentic Thaumaturgy. Claiming that one author has the same goals and claims of another is not really logical, IMO.

Steve Jackson Games tends to accept all sorts of authors to write their books. They aren't a conglomerate whole in some sort of hive mind.

 

[Apology]

I have that problem on another website where I like to post. It's a crime website, so since the subject is primarily death, there's a lot of room for offhand woo statements, and to call someone out on something like angels would be derailing the thread, so it's against the rules, but not as an endorsement of angels or woo.

I have a fascination and prurient interest in why people are serial killers I don't think we'll ever know what turns people into predatory monsters that do these horrifying and disgusting things.

 

[arthwollipot]

I play RPGs with some friends and they all seem to really believe that their dice pick them. I kept rolling low numbers and someone told me to pick another die, and when I said that wouldn't help me any everyone pointed out that it really does because the die has to pick you. So apparently some like you and some don't. Everyone uses the same die for every game because they believe it likes them. I was told to pick a few and roll them to see what happens-if you get one that seems to land on high numbers mostly, it likes you. I thought they were joking at first but they are serious.

Has anyone else came across this belief?

Not this exact belief, but dice superstitions are amazingly common. I sometimes pre-roll all my dice before a session to get the "best" ones.

Amber... but that's only because no one plays it.

I ran a successful Amber campaign which lasted over two years.

 

[Lonewulf]

I ran a successful Amber campaign which lasted over two years.

Yeah, but since when do you count?

 

[Dancing David]

http://www.sjgames.com/thaumaturgy/

"AUTHENTIC THAMATURGY!"



It links to Isaac's site here:

http://www.neopagan.net/



I am sad.

Ah, the man who summoned Abadon on the Tom Snyder Show, there are rules and regulations to the practice of traditional cermonial magic and shamansim.

That doesn't mean that the exterior forces are real, but there are some good ways to interact with the non-verbal nature of the human consciousness and some very bad ones.

 

[Dancing David]

Yes. RPGs that don't pretend that their systems are real.

You think that all RPGs claim that their systems are real, or are "based on reality"?


So, "AUTHENTIC THAUMATURGY" essentially demonstrates how magic would, and should (does) work, of a certain kind? That still sounds like woo to me.

The practice of manipulating 'occult' forces is a very old one. Just as an RPG may have a diety , say Ra, and a priest who worships that diety there is a basis for the historical representation of what the RPG plays.

Now the fact that the priest may invoke the diety, raise the aspect and wield the attribute in the game, or work miracles does not mean that reality works the same way.

The practice of traditional magic has it rules and structures. many people ignore that when they take up the practice. Which tends to loosen their already weak grip on reality.

 

[Dancing David]

I play RPGs with some friends and they all seem to really believe that their dice pick them. I kept rolling low numbers and someone told me to pick another die, and when I said that wouldn't help me any everyone pointed out that it really does because the die has to pick you. So apparently some like you and some don't. Everyone uses the same die for every game because they believe it likes them. I was told to pick a few and roll them to see what happens-if you get one that seems to land on high numbers mostly, it likes you. I thought they were joking at first but they are serious.

Has anyone else came across this belief?

Good old confirmation bias, there are some crappy dice as well.

I recall a cat who was noted for luck with the dice.

It was hard to get her to roll them.

 

[TheDoLittle]

I ran a successful Amber campaign which lasted over two years.

Yeah, but since when do you count?

I'm just impressed he freely admitted to it!

I've had some dollar store six-siders that have lasted me years without any hitch, and a pair of official Star Trek:The Experience dice from Vegas that I have yet to roll higher than a 7.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Steve Jackson Games tends to accept all sorts of authors to write their books. They aren't a conglomerate whole in some sort of hive mind.

No they basicly accept one kind of author the ones steve wants them to as it is his company.

 

[Dancing David]

I think that the main confusion here is that people seem to think "magic in gaming", whereas I'm thinking "games that claim their magic is real"...

I'm not saying that the book ain't useful, just that the author is a woo. And apparently, he is. He just happened to make a good book while he was at it.

The Munchkin's Guide to Power Gaming is an interesting reference, but I'm not convinced that one book is equal to another. One guy authors Munchkin, another guy authors Authentic Thaumaturgy. Claiming that one author has the same goals and claims of another is not really logical, IMO.

Steve Jackson Games tends to accept all sorts of authors to write their books. They aren't a conglomerate whole in some sort of hive mind.

Well, it really depends on the frame of the person practicing.

If i recal correctly Bonewits followed up on Regardie, although it has been a very long time since I have read about him. Regardie was the last of the Golden Dawn era and he founded the whole rosicrucian thing, he was a student of Crowley, astudent of Mather who studied Levi.

So do you cause a change within yourself that changes your perception of reality or do you cause a change in reality? A rather hotly debated issue.

And in the steps of Crowley you sell a lot more books if you claim to be the antichrist rather than claiming to be a sceptic.

Bonewits has gotten more woo over time. Especialy since he has claimed to be the Grand Poobah Druid.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Good old confirmation bias, there are some crappy dice as well.

Gaming dice are not generaly manufactured to exacting standards.

 

[e-sabbath]

Some of 'em are. You pay extra for those. Me, I have knucklebone dice, Grimstooth dice, skull pip dice, crystal-non-caltrop D4s, and a handful of round D6s that, by their nature, break Warhammer 40K. (Look up the rules for determining if a die is tilted)
I love my Crystal Dice. Nice and readable.

http://dicepool.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=106_188&osCsid=5bb73bbb489aaef09d814696fa3a69a5

 

[Fnord]

Hey what about Father? Quasi devine beings count as woo to me.

My campaigns are all pre-1105, so all those "Grandfather" stories are mere droyne mythology.

Although I am toying with the idea of a planet of Cthulhu-worshipping Mind Flayers held in stasis for the last 300,000 years or so. Just don't press the red button...

 

[ponderingturtle]

Some of 'em are. You pay extra for those. Me, I have knucklebone dice, Grimstooth dice, skull pip dice, crystal-non-caltrop D4s, and a handful of round D6s that, by their nature, break Warhammer 40K. (Look up the rules for determining if a die is tilted)
I love my Crystal Dice. Nice and readable.

http://dicepool.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=106_188&osCsid=5bb73bbb489aaef09d814696fa3a69a5

I prefer my tripple d4 Dodecahedron. Best d4's I have seen.

 

[ponderingturtle]

My campaigns are all pre-1105, so all those "Grandfather" stories are mere droyne mythology.

How do you manage all the precursor required elements? Or are you just toning down the individualness of the precursor?