Thunderbolts of the Gods

NobbyNobbs

Gazerbeam's Protege
NobbyNobbs
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My woo-inclined father-in-law sent me a link to a video called "Thunderbolts of the Gods". In the e-mail, he provided a one-paragraph summary, as follows:

Challenge yourself, your peers, your teachers. Participate in a revolution in science and human evolution. Watch this film and in an hour know more than most NASA scientists about the fundamental force that forms and sustains the universe (summary below). Visit: www.thunderboltsdvd.com - to subscribe to a free newsletter that will keep you up to date on the latest discoveries in space and a revolutionary new interpretation of them - to purchase the DVD and\or Thunderbolts Of The Gods 'monograph' (book), The Thunderbolts Project calls into question not only countless modern scientific assumptions, but also the billions of dollars of big-science government and corporate funding that continues to preserve and entrench questionable theories - elevating them to the status of doctrine - while systematically excluding legitimate alternatives that threaten the status-quo. Alternatives that may represent the future of science. The Thunderbolts Project offers remarkably simple explanations for 'black holes', 'dark matter', the electric sun, comets that are NOT made of ice, planetary scarring and many other 'mysterious' phenomena. It proposes that much of the currently observable phenomena of deep space can be intelligently explained by already known principles of electricity. High school students get it immediately. A doctorate in higher math is not required. This extraordinary new theory also redefines ancient history, linking rock art images carved in basalt 5,000 years ago with identical images found only in Hubble photographs of deep space or in photographs of recently declassified high-energy plasma discharge experiments generated in a billion dollar lab. The Thunderbolts Project invites you to participate in this revolution, to test and even challenge its validity, or, if finding it rational and intriguing enough, to contribute to its expansion and further evolution. Thank you, The Thunderbolts Project
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The film is an hour long, and I haven't yet taken the time to view it...it may be some time before I can. However, based on the description, my guard is up. Has anyone seen it? Is there a debunking? I'd love to address him on it, point by point.

Here's the link to the video.
 
I'm not going to waste a precious hour watching the video, but from a quick look at their web site (which actually takes many clicks to get past the sales pitch to any information) suggests much unsupported theoretical talk aimed at impressing folk without much knowledge of science. For example...

Apparently the Sun is not powered by nuclear fusion in its core but because it is "connected to the electric circuitry of the galaxy," as 'proven' (in Thunderbolts' view) by the fact sunspots are cooler in their centre than outside (see here). It's a shame because that article begins with quite a nice summary of the development of solar physics, then makes outrageous claims without any supporting evidence, while showing a complete lack of understanding of solar structure. For comparison with reality (i.e. theories that are supported by experiment), here's a nice starting point. Let me know if you need detailed arguments. I quite like solar physics :)
 
There was a very long thread about these topics started by Beachooser. I will try to find and link to it.

While there is something interesting in plasmacosmology, it has some weak points. Such as the assertion that quazars are associated with disrupted galaxies.

So while there maybe an anomalous redshift associated with quazers, it does not apply to the whole universe.

here you are Nobby (can I see your papers) Nobbs!

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90595

as I recall there is this assertion that these huge mega currents exist in space, another assertion thats omehow the currents explain the rotation of stars and a general complaint that they are ignored.
 
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Choice ideas and quotes
Dark matter (along with dark energy, inflation, strings, black holes and other phenomena that may be nothing but mathematical constructs) are the foundations of the current Big Bang theory. If there's a problem with dark matter, there's a significant problem with Big Bang.
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It's important to realize that they first inferred the presence of dark matter in our galaxy in order to explain the rotation curve for the stars in our galaxy around its center. But there is another possible explanation in that case besides dark matter. One that the Big Bang community largely ignores. That is the one promoted by plasma cosmologists which can be demonstrated in the lab and in computer models using well understood physics.
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Why is it that I can pick almost any current book on the big bang and I will likely find hardly a mention of plasma and electromagnetism? Plasma comprises almost all of the matter in the observable universe and electromagetic fields are everywhere and demonstrably have a very powerful effect on plasmas (in fact, far more than gravity). Plasma cosmologists do not ignore gravity. Why is it that Big Bang cosmologists consistently ignore plasmas and the effect of electromagnetism on them? Is it because they are too invested in their *cool* mathematical ghosts?
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If 99% of the matter in the observed universe consists of plasmas which respond to electromagnetic forces and electromagnetic forces have been observed everywhere we've looked in the universe, and they are vastly stronger than gravity forces, why do you think that electromagnetic forces have played no role in the formation and operation of galaxies or the interactions between galaxies? That certainly seems to be what the Big Bang Astronomers are saying since they hardly ever mention electric plasmas and electric forces in anything they write.
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Perhaps because the amount of $$$$$ spent on plasma cosmology is a drop in an ocean compared to what they are spending to prop up Big Bang?
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There was never proof offered of the following
Well how could you tell? Do we have instruments that could detect such things? The fact is the instruments we have show large electric fields at work as far out as they can look. We see electromagnetic forces influencing the interaction of colliding galaxies. We know that intergalactic space ... especially that space as it would have been billions and billions of years ago when the bulk of the galaxies were first forming ... would have been filled with vast amounts of plasma. We know that everywhere we find plasmas, we find electric and magnetic fields in play. So why do you ASSUME (because that's what you are doing) that there are not electric fields out there? Dogma?
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Just curious. Have you, Frank, (or anyone else on this thread) read the new book by Donald Scott titled "Electric Sky"? Deep Impact and many other topics are discussed in the book. I'm curious what you have to say about the specific evidence he presents concerning flaws in Big Bang and specific evidence suggesting the plasma cosmologists are right.

And just for the record, he's not just an author/lecturer ... he's a electrical engineer who taught the subject at a major university for over 39 years. He says he got interested in cosmology when he heard astronomers and astrophysicists making claims about electrical and magnetic phenomena that are simply false. And I think proves it in the book.
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No, not according to me, according to people who seem to understand plasmas, electric currents and magnetic fields (and afterall, everything we see on and above the sun is current carrying plasmas and magnet fields). If you think you know all the answers, then tell us why if the energy is produced deep inside the sun by nuclear fusion, there is a corona?

Here's what a mainstream astronomer says: http://www.alma.nrao.edu/science/basics/solarwind.html "One of the great mysteries of the Sun is why it has a solar corona. At the height of the photosphere (the visible surface of the Sun), the temperature is ~5880K. The temperature then decreases with height for several hundred kilometers. But then something amazing occurs: at greater heights, the temperature increases, gradually at first, and then suddenly to ~3 million degrees! "

Can you do better than him? Or shall we look at what Plasma scientists suggest is happening on the sun (according to Donald Scott's book, "The Electric Sky"). I paraphrase and shorten his explanation ...

The big difference from the standard model is that plasma cosmologists don't believe the energy is being produced in the sun, but is a result of a difference in charge between a positively charged sun and a negative current carrying interstellar medium. This model was developed by a now deceased engineer named Ralph Juergens back in 1979.
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It goes on for quite a while, Beachooser finaly quit and stopped posting.
 
I like the bit about electromagnetic forces being stronger than gravity. No mention whatsoever of distances involved. Were those quotes from our forum, or the other?
 
Incidentally, can anybody speak to the credentials of the Thunderbolt Team?

http://www.thunderbolts.info/team.htm

I have a feeling most are quacks, since they actually describe many of their members as comparative mythologists, whatever that is, and note that one guy has "university training in Astronomy." Wow, university training! Does the Astronomy 101 survey science class my idiot freshmen year roommate took count?
 
I thought this was going to be a thread about farting. Turns out it sort of is.
 
Let's put it this way:

One physicist. No astronomers.

How many groundbreaking theories of astrophysics do you expect?

Pry a little deeper, here's the catastrophists chiming in. You know who they are, right? Ever hear of Immanuel Velikovski's book, Worlds in Collision? Lately they've taken to scaring the customers by running around screaming about how Saturn used to hang over the North Pole. I mean, seriously, what do you say to someone who says that to you? "No?" "You're insane?" "What have you been smoking?"

And where you get this is a bunch of comparative literature people who've been deluded into thinking that just because they got some edumacation, that's all anybody got, so they're "scientists." Archaeology, that's a science. History might be. Comparative mythology? Hmmm. Maybe, maybe not. Depends who's doing it. When whoever that is starts talking about serious astrophysicists like they're psychotic, I stop listening, just the way I stopped listening about the time it became clear that the philosophers had mistaken themselves for scientists. Deconstruct this.

I'm not saying, don't search for consilience. I'm saying, if you go wandering off the reservation, make sure you hire a qualified tour guide, and check his credentials. Somebody comes up with something like this, I wanna see some PhD astrophysicists, not a bunch of English majors. You with me?

ETA: Oh, and as far as the physics goes, well, don't go there. Just don't.
 
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robinson said:
What do you mean? What did it say?
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I was referring to this, mentioned in an above post:

If 99% of the matter in the observed universe consists of plasmas which respond to electromagnetic forces and electromagnetic forces have been observed everywhere we've looked in the universe, and they are vastly stronger than gravity forces, why do you think that electromagnetic forces have played no role in the formation and operation of galaxies or the interactions between galaxies? That certainly seems to be what the Big Bang Astronomers are saying since they hardly ever mention electric plasmas and electric forces in anything they write.
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If 99% of the matter in the observed universe consists of plasmas which respond to electromagnetic forces and electromagnetic forces have been observed everywhere we've looked in the universe, and they are vastly stronger than gravity forces, why do you think that electromagnetic forces have played no role in the formation and operation of galaxies or the interactions between galaxies? That certainly seems to be what the Big Bang Astronomers are saying since they hardly ever mention electric plasmas and electric forces in anything they write.
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That quote, as well as a bunch of others, is not linked or attributed to anyone. Who said it? And where?

The BAUT threads are interesting, but every one of them is locked. What kind of forum is that?
 
robinson said:
That quote, as well as a bunch of others, is not linked or attributed to anyone. Who said it? And where?

The BAUT threads are interesting, but every one of them is locked. What kind of forum is that?
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All of the quotes I listed are from the thread by Beachooser, they are rather standard for Thunderbolts as well although I believe that Beachooser is original in text.

I am sorry I did not attribute my quote

that one is here:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2880838&postcount=32
 
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Ahh! Thanks. It wasn't clear where or who or even what forum. I wasn't even sure what the quoted text was talking about.

BeAChooser said:
If 99% of the matter in the observed universe consists of plasmas which respond to electromagnetic forces and electromagnetic forces have been observed everywhere we've looked in the universe, and they are vastly stronger than gravity forces, why do you think that electromagnetic forces have played no role in the formation and operation of galaxies or the interactions between galaxies? That certainly seems to be what the Big Bang Astronomers are saying since they hardly ever mention electric plasmas and electric forces in anything they write. :D
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After doing a little research, there seems to be all kinds of interesting stuff associated with the electric sun theory. My ignorance on these matters is far greater than I would have thought, if I thought about it at all.
 
Electromagnetism is waaaay more powerful than gravity. Duh. But I didn't realize that it also is infinite in reach, and also obeys the inverse square law. The big difference seems to be that EM can be blocked/absorbed/neutralized, while gravity can't.

I also didn't know lightning emits X-rays until I followed a BAUT thread based on this (Thunderbolts).
 
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robinson said:
Electromagnetism is waaaay more powerful than gravity. Duh. But I didn't realize that it also is infinite in reach, and also obeys the inverse square law. The big difference seems to be that EM can be blocked/absorbed/neutralized, while gravity can't.

I also didn't know lightning emits X-rays until I followed a BAUT thread based on this (Thunderbolts).
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Electromagnetism is way more powerful than gravity....at short range. Over the long haul, gravity reigns. Which is why Newton's Laws, rather than Maxwell's equations, explain why the moon is in orbit.
 
The gods are hurling cows this month, from what I've heard. Better hope you've just been to church when one lands on your hood. Trust me on this, I read evidence of it somewhere recently.
 
Schneibster said:
Pry a little deeper ...
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If you're gonna put your hand into the cookie-jar, put it in up to the elbow!

...here's the catastrophists chiming in. You know who they are, right? Ever hear of Immanuel Velikovski's book, Worlds in Collision?
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If you're going to argue reductio ad absurdam, cut straight to the most absurd. Velinovsky is much neglected these days, but well worth dusting off and waving at people.

Lately they've taken to scaring the customers by running around screaming about how Saturn used to hang over the North Pole.
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The cool dudes are the ones that claim they used to hang with him, back in the day.
 
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