How does elective medical treatment work in UK?

[Puppycow]

I understand that medical procedures are free in the UK. Does that include elective treatments like in vitro fertilization or cosmetic surgery?

The reason I ask, is that the question occurred to me when I was reading these articles:

Church condemns lesbian IVF use
Peers attack 'fatherless' IVF bid

Under socialized medicine, there are a lot gray areas, it seems. For example, should the state provide for elective treatments, or 'alternative' treatments that are not evidence-based.

 

[Tokenconservative]

I understand that medical procedures are free in the UK. Does that include elective treatments like in vitro fertilization or cosmetic surgery?

The reason I ask, is that the question occurred to me when I was reading these articles:

Church condemns lesbian IVF use
Peers attack 'fatherless' IVF bid

Under socialized medicine, there are a lot gray areas, it seems. For example, should the state provide for elective treatments, or 'alternative' treatments that are not evidence-based.

Chirp....chirp.

Like sitting around a campfire way, WAY out in
the forest in the middle of the night, eh?

In Canada it works this way: get on a plane or bus headed south.


Tokie

 

[brodski]

IIRC you can get a limited number of IVF "cycles" on the National Health Service (NHS, the state medical system) provided you meet certain medical criteria. If you don't meet the criteria, or you w ant more than the maximum number you c an pay to go to a private clinic.
Cosmetic surgery on the NHS is only available if it is "reconstructive", or there is another medical rather than cosmetic reason. Again, if you want procedures done which aren't covered by et NHS, then you c an go private. there is a large private medical sector in the UK, which has a somewhat symbiotic relationship with the state sector.

 

[Tokenconservative]

IIRC you can get a limited number of IVF "cycles" on the National Health Service (NHS, the state medical system) provided you meet certain medical criteria. If you don't meet the criteria, or you w ant more than the maximum number you c an pay to go to a private clinic.
Cosmetic surgery on the NHS is only available if it is "reconstructive", or there is another medical rather than cosmetic reason. Again, if you want procedures done which aren't covered by et NHS, then you c an go private. there is a large private medical sector in the UK, which has a somewhat symbiotic relationship with the state sector.

Well that sounds sucky. Here in the USofA (untill just shortly after 01/20/08 anyway) if you want to get that big wart on your nose removed you pop into the plastic surgeon's on your lunch hour and get it done.

Tokie

 

[brodski]

Well that sounds sucky. Here in the USofA (untill just shortly after 01/20/08 anyway) if you want to get that big wart on your nose removed you pop into the plastic surgeon's on your lunch hour and get it done.

Tokie

As you do in the UK.
And you pay for it in the UK too, as you will in the USA.

If there was a specifc part of my post which you didn't understand, please point it out and I will try and explain it to you.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

Unfortunately some things like IVF are a bit of a postcode lottery in the UK (actually England and Wales, I don't know the Scottish guidelines) at the moment with some NHS regions offering more in the way of treatment like IVF, with different elegibility criteria. And where you are lucky enough to meet the criteria, the waiting list can be pretty long, so a fair amount of people go private for IVF. Two of my siblings have recieved IVF treatment on the NHS.

NICE (National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence) have issued guidelines about infertility treatment (including 3 cycles of IVF for suitable candidates, I think), but they haven't yet been fully implemented nationwide.

 

[Darat]

I understand that medical procedures are free in the UK. Does that include elective treatments like in vitro fertilization or cosmetic surgery?

The reason I ask, is that the question occurred to me when I was reading these articles:

Church condemns lesbian IVF use
Peers attack 'fatherless' IVF bid

Under socialized medicine, there are a lot gray areas, it seems. For example, should the state provide for elective treatments, or 'alternative' treatments that are not evidence-based.

Anyone in the UK can pay for their medical treatment if they like - we have a flourishing and highly profitable private medical system as well as a flourishing and excellent national health system.

Many "cosmetic" treatments are available under the NHS, for instance a child can have his ears "pinned back", birth marks can be treated, moles can be removed and so on. Usually all that is required is that you go to your GP and they will refer you to a consultant/specialist (some GP will offer some small surgeries such as mole removal in their practice). Certainly pretty much all restorative "cosmetic" treatment is covered by the NHS, so a woman having a mastectomy will be able to elect to have a breast reconstruction. My mother is just waiting to begin extensive restoration of her jaw and teeth following the side affects of radiation therapy, which will mean removal of all her remaining teeth and dental implants inserted and full permanent "dentures", the cost of which privately would be in the region of £30,000 to £50,000.

I believe the current IVF guidelines (at least for England and Wales) are to allow for up to 3 cycles of IVF treatment.

(Just as a note the worlds first "test-tube baby" was a British girl and was the result of NHS research.)

 

[Professor Yaffle]

The NHS does not pay for cosmetic surgery if it is for cosmetic reasons only. But you can get it in some circumstances eg disfigurement, severe scarring, people suffering from (or likely to suffer from) emotional distress due to the way they look, breast reductions if they are causing complications like back pain etc.

 

[Darat]

The NHS does not pay for cosmetic surgery if it is for cosmetic reasons only. But you can get it in some circumstances eg disfigurement, severe scarring, people suffering from (or likely to suffer from) emotional distress due to the way they look, breast reductions if they are causing complications like back pain etc.

Not quite accurate - whilst extensive elective cosmetic surgery is not available on the NHS small procedures are, it usually depends on your GP.

 

[Professor Yaffle]

Not quite accurate - whilst extensive elective cosmetic surgery is not available on the NHS small procedures are, it usually depends on your GP.

Thanks, I didn't know that.

 

[fls]

Chirp....chirp.

Like sitting around a campfire way, WAY out in
the forest in the middle of the night, eh?

In Canada it works this way: get on a plane or bus headed south.

Tokie

Exactly. Any elective or alternative proceedures are strictly out-lawed in Canada. While there is a thriving underground, black-market cosmetic surgery practice (I'm not supposed to admit I know about it), conditions are poor, since by necessity they take place in the darkest, dingiest corners of long-abandoned domiciles. A close friend of mine, a plastic surgeon, 'disappeared' about 3 years ago when he attempted to remove a mole in his clinic, thinking it would pass unnoticed. When we tried to discover his whereabouts, we were warned by the RCMP, "you don't want to go there." I have had several of my colleagues arrested when they skirted too close to the line, but I never dreamed They had the power to 'eliminate'. After that, I moved to the US, fearing that the breast augmentations I performed in my youth would come back to haunt me.

Linda

 

[Darat]

Nominated.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Exactly. Any elective or alternative proceedures are strictly out-lawed in Canada. While there is a thriving underground, black-market cosmetic surgery practice (I'm not supposed to admit I know about it), conditions are poor, since by necessity they take place in the darkest, dingiest corners of long-abandoned domiciles. A close friend of mine, a plastic surgeon, 'disappeared' about 3 years ago when he attempted to remove a mole in his clinic, thinking it would pass unnoticed. When we tried to discover his whereabouts, we were warned by the RCMP, "you don't want to go there." I have had several of my colleagues arrested when they skirted too close to the line, but I never dreamed They had the power to 'eliminate'. After that, I moved to the US, fearing that the breast augmentations I performed in my youth would come back to haunt me.

Linda

Actually, the besy way to remove a mole in a clinic is to offer it a worm and then take it back outside to a patch of earth. It will quickly burrow its way underground. Except of course in Canada where the permafrost is fozen solid for at least 12 months a year. In our case we skin the little blighters, gut them and fry them in butter. Six or so make a reasonable meal if smothered in maple syrup.

 

[Puppycow]

Thanks. I guess my questions have been answered.

The article mentioned IVF clinics without specifying whether private or public:

The Bill includes recognition of same-sex couples as legal parents and would remove the current requirement on IVF clinics to be sure that a father is involved in the upbringing of any child created after he donates sperm.

I guess that would mean both public and private ones?

There were also some other interesting parts of this bill:

The Bill would also open the door to experiments involving human-animal hybrid embryos, including "cytoplasmic" embryos, which are 99.9% human, and "true hybrids", carrying both human and animal genes.

In addition, "chimeras" made of a mosaic-like mix of cells from different species, and "human transgenic embryos" - human embryos modified with animal DNA - will be allowed under licence.

It also includes a ban on sex-selection for non-medical reasons.

Both pro-choice and anti-abortion campaigners are likely to use the Bill to try to change the law on abortions.

I wonder if it's really necessary for the government to ban sex-selection? If it was overwhelmingly one sex that was selected for, to the point that there would be a future imbalance, I could see a social interest, but if it's mostly just parents who want, say, one of each, that seems like the government should leave that to people to decide for themselves.

 

[Jaggy Bunnet]

Thanks. I guess my questions have been answered.

The article mentioned IVF clinics without specifying whether private or public:

The Bill includes recognition of same-sex couples as legal parents and would remove the current requirement on IVF clinics to be sure that a father is involved in the upbringing of any child created after he donates sperm.

I guess that would mean both public and private ones?

Yes, the HFEA guidelines apply to both sectors. I am not sure the interpretation the article puts on it is correct. The actual requirement is for the clinic not to offer treatment 'unless account has been taken of the welfare of any child who may be born as a result of treatment (including the need of that child for a father)'.

http://www.ivf.net/ivf/index.php?page=out&id=1719