Derren Brown Trick or treat

[littlehulkster]

The same can be said just about every trick in the world, which is done on a spectator. But thankfully not many have the same childish attitude that you have and actually want to be tricked and have fun. I've seen that specific effect performed on a few different people, and it got some very powerful reactions. That's what it should all be about.

The magician should sell his tricks to me, rather than me having to sell them myself.

If you start talking here about previous posts of mine at least get your facts right. I've made it clear a few times that I have no problem with magicians making Woo claims in their presentation or anywhere else, including Criss. My only complaint about Criss was that he's trying to bust other performers for promoting Woo, while he does the exact same thing himself. It was to show all his hypocrisy.

Callahan is hardly a regular magician. The man clearly claims to have supernatural powers. Criss was doing us all a favor by calling out that guy. Do you hate James Randi for calling out other "performers?"

Also, it should be noted that Derren Brown has done the same thing, and quite a few times more than Criss. Ever watch his Messiah show?

And I find it really annoying that on Phenomenon he has the nerve to call all the routines tricks, and even expose the name of the Pk touches for everyone at home to hear. That's pretty much the "I'm a skeptic, and so I have the right to ruin it for others" attitude that I'm reading from your own posts.

Are you trying to say that the routines on that show aren't tricks?

Also, Derren Brown has spoiled more tricks than Criss Angel could ever dream of. Not that it matters, though, because I think P&T pretty well proved that knowing how a trick is done does not mean one can do it.

You have the right for that opinion. I find Derren very entertaining, and I guess also all those who fill his stage shows every time, and those who have been watching all his different TV shows and specials in the last 7 years or so.

The same could be said about your much despised Criss Angel.

Also, if you're ok with my opinions, why do you start foaming at the mouth whenever I express them?

Yes, I'm sure that arguing like an annoying troll would make people take your points seriously.

Go ahead and continue calling everyone that doesn't agree with you a troll. It's a fantastic technique.

 

[DJM]

The magician should sell his tricks to me, rather than me having to sell them myself.

Of course, it's always about you.

Callahan is hardly a regular magician. The man clearly claims to have supernatural powers. Criss was doing us all a favor by calling out that guy.

Also, it should be noted that Derren Brown done the same thing, and quite a few times more than Criss.

Callahan vists magic forums and publishes magic effects for the magic community. Not to mention that he puts the words magician, illusionist, mentalist and entertainer on his site. I see him as a magician/mentalist. Like I've said previously, I believe Criss has promoted more Woo on his shows than Jim ever will.

Are you trying to say that the routines on that show aren't tricks?

Also, Penn & Teller proved that even if someone knows how the trick is done, if it's a good trick, they still can't do it themselves because they lack the coordination and skill.

Many magicians are against Penn & Teller exposing things, and many of them hate Criss for exposing effects that they still use, such as the ash on palm effect. I know some performers on Phenomenon were very annoyed by Criss' attitude and calling their routines tricks. It's not a word they would use during their own shows because it ruins the illusion for the audience.

And you could see the reaction on Guy Bavli's face when Criss called him a magician after his performance. Especially since he calls himself a mentalist. Not much respect there, just childish.

Also, if you're ok with my opinions, why do you start foaming at the mouth whenever I express them?

Go ahead and continue calling everyone that doesn't agree with you a troll. It's a fantastic technique.

I'm not bothered by your opinions, it's your right to think whatever you like. Your troll attitude comes from the fact that you bring gay remarks to the disccussion, like saying I have a man crush on Derren or whatever. That's just a pathetic thing to say which has nothing to do with the discussion. Another reason is because of the fact you kept repeating my own paragraphs, and then making it seem like it's something you are saying.

If there's soemthing you want to say, you can use your own phrasing and your sentences. Don't fix my own, that's something a troll would do.

And realise that just because people like someone doesn't mean they have to be in love with him. They just respect his art and talent. Hinting that people are gay because they enjoy watching a male mentalist is just childish. And again, something a troll would do.

 

[JonWhite]

...I'm not bothered by your opinions, it's your right to think whatever you like. Your troll attitude comes from the fact that you bring gay remarks to the disccussion, like saying I have a man crush on Derren or whatever. That's just a pathetic thing to say which has nothing to do with the discussion. Another reason is because of the fact you kept repeating my own paragraphs, and then making it seem like it's something you are saying.

If there's soemthing you want to say, you can use your own phrasing and your sentences. Don't fix my own, that's something a troll would do.

And realise that just because people like someone doesn't mean they have to be in love with him. They just respect his art and talent. Hinting that people are gay because they enjoy watching a male mentalist is just childish. And again, something a troll would do.

Littlehulkster.

Pathetic sexual attacks and because you happen to know how some of the effects DB performs are done you think he's crap. Fine. Your opinion and attitude is fortunately in the minority.

I would bother replying at greater length, but DJM has summed up your trollhood pretty well above.

 

[Bob Klase]

Looking back at hulkster's posts I thought it might be helpful to provide some translation for some people that might read them:

Sorry, but I just can't be impressed with this guy. All his tricks either reek strongly of stooges

Translation: I don't know have a clue how it's done and since it involved other people they must be stooges.

or are so simple anyone with a copy of 13 steps and 20 minutes a day could do them.

Translation: I read a magic book and found out how some tricks are done so now they don't fool me.

The public aren't really interested in seeing 2 hour TV specials where Derren explains sleight of hand (Of course, passing it off as awesome mental powers the entire time).

Translation: I know some tricks but nobody's really entertained when I do them. I wish I was like Darren.

Derren says in the beginning of every episode that he combines Psychology, magic, misdirection and showmanship. One of those things does not belong.

Translation: I have no idea what the word "psychology" means.

Maybe you are just angry because I've sleighted your mancrush

Homophobic ad hom attempting to support his lack of knowledge about the subject under discussion.

He never had any specials about explaining selight of hand.

Look up "The Devil's Picturebook"

Translation: I have no idea what a "special" is. I thought it was a book or video marketed to other magicians.

If by psychology, you mean 100% USDA certified woo ********, then yes, they contain psychology.

Translation: I have no idea what the word "psychology" means.

Derren Brown has Andy Nyman working with him. So much so, he's copied several of Nyman's old acts pretty much verbatim

Translation: I wish I could hire some creative people to help me do magic. I'm really jealous that Darren is smart enough to get permission from the creator (and even pay them!) to use their stuff.

If you like that kind of showmanship, that's your right. I'd rather see performers do tricks I can't.

Translation: I'd rather see performer's do things that I consider difficult because I don't know anything about actually entertaining real audiences.

Typical Derren Brown fan, I got to admit. Throwing up seas of insults whenever anyone doesn't blindly love your masturbatory hero.

Translation: Another homophobic ad hom which at this point begins to look like a fear as to who it might really apply to.

Also, you can pretty easily do that trick via pure trickery without needing any Derren Brown AWESOME MENTAL POWERS!

Translation: Waah, Darren doesn't really have any special mental powers. It's all just tricks. I like mentalists who have real powers better (except that I don't know if any of them do because if I don't know how it's done and it fools me then it might be real).

That doesn't change the fact that Derren is outright lying to his audiences.

Translation: Entertainers should never lie to their audience. Except if they're actors and they're just pretending to be someone else. Or they're singers and they're just singing the lyrics to a song even if they didn't just really lose their lover. Or if they're magicians and they say a coin vanished when it really didn't. Or anyone else that I like.

When I watch Derren Brown's tricks, I either can perform the trick myself, or I can very easily explain and understand how it's done.

When I watch Penn & Teller, I see no tricks I can do myself and some (Their Shadows bit being the first one in my mind) that I cannot possibly explain.

Translation: I haven't read the right magic books and don't know how some things are done. Therefore I like seeing tricks that aren't in the books I read.

Your rabid defense of this man is very interesting, pretty much follows the direction from your previous posts. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course (Besides it being terribly creepy.)

Translation: Yet another homophobic ad hom which is beginning to just be a habit. Easier to repeat insults than to actually think of something new and different (opps, that's just what I've been complaining about Darren doing- old stuff that I know how it works).

I really think that subconscious card/symbol/color/whatever choice stuff only works on you if you want it to. Even before I learned magic, it very rarely ever worked on me because I always approached magic acts with skepticism instead of instantly suspending disbelief.

Now that I know a few tricks, I wonder how it can work on anyone

Translation: It used to fool the crap out of me until I happened to read a book that explained it. Now that I've read the book I wonder how it can work on all those other people that haven't read that book yet. I guess I must just be smarter than all of them because I read that book.

Have you actually seen Derren live? His show isn't impressive at all for a man of his fame and wealth.

Translation: All those people paying a lot of money for tickets are much dumber than me because they seem to like his show and I don't.

The only difference I see between Brown's live presentation and that of an amateur is his fancy background.

Translation: I know a lot of Darren's tricks. Why can't I be rich and famous like him. Once you know how the tricks are done you're just as good as any other performer that does them.

It can fail if the person you're trying to do it to doesn't want to be tricked.

Translation: I read some magic books and I know some tricks. So I think I know everything. Aren't I smart!

I'm pretty sure "YOU MUST LIKE DERREN BROWN AND WANT TO HAVE HIS MANBABIES" isn't anywhere in the forum rules.

Translation: Tiresome homophobic ad hom that I think makes me look so smart.

The magician should sell his tricks to me, rather than me having to sell them myself.

Translation: I don't care what real audiences think. Magicians should entertain me. I'm the only person that's important.

Go ahead and continue calling everyone that doesn't agree with you a troll. It's a fantastic technique.

Translation: Don't call me a troll all the time. That's rude and doesn't add to the discussion. It's about as stupid as as making homophobic ad hom attacks in every post.

.

Translation: Oops. I better skip the standard homophobic ad hom in this post after that last comment I wrote or I could look rude and stupid. And I hope no one gets suspicious that my "little hulkster" screen name indicates any unnatural desires concerning the hulkster.

 

[DJM]

That was great, Bob. Just don't start translating Skippy's posts if you want to stay sane.

 

[Azrael 5]

*snip*


Callahan is hardly a regular magician. The man clearly claims to have supernatural powers. Criss was doing us all a favor by calling out that guy. Do you hate James Randi for calling out other "performers?"

Also, it should be noted that Derren Brown has done the same thing, and quite a few times more than Criss. Ever watch his Messiah show?

Yes I have.Derren clearly states at the beginning of the show"I intend to challenge people's beliefs and see if they accept what they are told without questioning.if tehy ask me if its all tricks I will say yes"
He is showing that people believe what they are told.He isn't claiming "supernatural powers",he is demonstrating gullibility.
I have seen Derren twice live,and was very impressed.His newspaper prediction(YouTube it)is genius! As are many other effects. He is a manic performer-could be construed as hyperactive/high.

Are you trying to say that the routines on that show aren't tricks?

Also, Derren Brown has spoiled more tricks than Criss Angel could ever dream of. Not that it matters, though, because I think P&T pretty well proved that knowing how a trick is done does not mean one can do it.

Name a trick Derren has spoiled? C'mon one trick! Also whilst on topic of his tricks Smoke will work on anyone even if psychological force fails.Because it's a card trick. How does one stop a trick working by "not wanting to be tricked"? Perhaps by continually being annoying and spoiling the effect? but that goes for any trick.

You don't like Derren thats's fine,but your dumb ill informed rants are immature.
I ask you again prove he uses stooges,prove he has spoiled a trick.Prove you are not a troll(you may struggle)

 

[Bob Klase]

Not that it matters, though, because I think P&T pretty well proved that knowing how a trick is done does not mean one can do it.

Don't know how I missed that before. Strange that you'd try to make some kind of point like that when so many of your posts complained about seeing Brown tricks that you know how to do. I guess now we understand why you're so upset- you know how they're done but you can't actually do them.

 

[littlehulkster]

So has anyone even tried to address my points yet?

You're free to like Derren Brown if you like, but I DON'T. I know, it's amazing that there are, in fact, people in this world that don't share your opinions. I'm sorry I don't blindly love Derren Brown because he is so hip and looks like your favorite indie musicians. I really am, but unfortunately I cannot change that. I know Derren is not as popular as Criss Angel and and thus I should hate Criss with every fiber of my being and love Derren the same because everything popular sucks, but I really can't do it.

Yes I have.Derren clearly states at the beginning of the show"I intend to challenge people's beliefs and see if they accept what they are told without questioning.if tehy ask me if its all tricks I will say yes"
He is showing that people believe what they are told.He isn't claiming "supernatural powers",he is demonstrating gullibility.
I have seen Derren twice live,and was very impressed.His newspaper prediction(YouTube it)is genius! As are many other effects. He is a manic performer-could be construed as hyperactive/high.

He also clearly states "That is the only trick you are going to see in the next hour. These are not magic tricks. This is mind control."

Also, I'm a parole officer. I know when someone is high and won't mistake it for enthusiasm. Derren was higher than a kite both times.

Name a trick Derren has spoiled? C'mon one trick! Also whilst on topic of his tricks Smoke will work on anyone even if psychological force fails.Because it's a card trick. How does one stop a trick working by "not wanting to be tricked"? Perhaps by continually being annoying and spoiling the effect? but that goes for any trick.

Apparently you've never heard of "The Devil's Picturebook", a 3 hour DVD dedicated to spoiling all manner of tricks.

Or Derren's book "Tricks of the Mind", which does the same. Derren has probably spoiled more tricks than any other magician, actually.

Smoke is a card trick, yes. Just because it's a card trick does not mean it's infallible. I witnessed it failing two times in a row live, although that could be due to Derren's love of amphetamines.

You don't like Derren thats's fine,but your dumb ill informed rants are immature.
I ask you again prove he uses stooges,prove he has spoiled a trick.Prove you are not a troll(you may struggle)

Odd how you say I'm dumb and ill informed when you can't even grasp basic English Grammar.

 

[DJM]

So has anyone even tried to address my points yet?
He also clearly states "That is the only trick you are going to see in the next hour. These are not magic tricks. This is mind control."

Also, I'm a parole officer. I know when someone is high and won't mistake it for enthusiasm. Derren was higher than a kite both times.

He said that on his first show 7 years ago, and after awhile he added a disclaimer that he does in fact combine magic and showmanship. And he admited that he was wrong in the beginning. Don't twist the facts by making it seems like he still does it now. Critisize the Derren of long ago, be fair for once. Be honest.

And of course you being a parole officer means you can't make mistakes and can always tell who is high and who is not. You are like a 100% reliable lie detector, never wrong. You can now pat yourself on the shoulder again and continue pretending you are such a perfect man.

Apparently you've never heard of "The Devil's Picturebook", a 3 hour DVD dedicated to spoiling all manner of tricks.

Or Derren's book "Tricks of the Mind", which does the same. Derren has probably spoiled more tricks than any other magician, actually.

You once again fail to understand simple things people are trying to tell you. Devil's Picturebook is a video made for MAGICIANS, it was made to share the effects with the magic community. Many magicians do the same by sharing effects like that, it's completely ethical. And Derren gave his own personal versions of those effects so people could learn then, including a few original things. If you can't see the difference between sharing routines with magicians and telling secrets to the public (like Criss and Penn & Teller on their shows), then you are even more clueless than I thought.

And what is it that he spoiled on Tricks of the Mind? Please give one effect from there that you think is considered spoiling a magic trick that other magicians still use.

Smoke is a card trick, yes. Just because it's a card trick does not mean it's infallible. I witnessed it failing two times in a row live, although that could be due to Derren's love of amphetamines.

At which show was it? And why would you go see him live twice if you can't stand him much?

Odd how you say I'm dumb and ill informed when you can't even grasp basic English Grammar.

Yes, another personal instult that has nothing to do with the discussion. At least he has the right to say you are ill informed, since you keep making clueless points. It's a valid point. You are trying to make yourself seem like such an expert, but you don't even know what's the the purpose of an instructional video, no matter how much we try to explain to you.

I kinda doubt that you don't realise you sound like a big fool, as every post makes it seem even clearer. That's why my troll theory still stands.

 

[Bob Klase]

Also, I'm a parole officer. I know when someone is high and won't mistake it for enthusiasm. Derren was higher than a kite both times.

I've known quite a few parole officers (several members of my family have been cops, one currently is a sherrif's deputy, two are bail bond agents). There are just as many stupid, incompetent parole officers as there are in any other profession.

Apparently you've never heard of "The Devil's Picturebook", a 3 hour DVD dedicated to spoiling all manner of tricks.

Or Derren's book "Tricks of the Mind", which does the same. Derren has probably spoiled more tricks than any other magician, actually.

Even more than Eugene Burger- he's published at least 10-12 books that "spoil magic", and quite a few DVDs too. How about Harlan Tarbell, Bill Malone, Robert Giobbi, Michael Ammar, Daryl (list could go on for several pages). They've all published many more books than Brown (many of them for the public), released several DVDs (dozens of DVDs for some of them). How is it that with one book and one video that Darren has "spoiled" more magic than any of them?

Odd how you say I'm dumb and ill informed when you can't even grasp basic English Grammar.

Simply based on the stupid claim you just made about Brown "spoiling more magic than any other magician" I'd say that "dumb and ill informed" are in the running for the biggest understatements of the year.

 

[Bob Klase]

You are trying to make yourself seem like such an expert, but you don't even know what's the the purpose of an instructional video, no matter how much we try to explain to you.

You're still trying to explain it to him? I'm too busy laughing at his ignorance (which has to be intentional- no one is really that stupid. So troll is accurate).

 

[BPScooter]

I'm suprised than nobody has commented on the "indie musician" label and the amphetamine libel. Apparently to the poster these are serious and completely sensible comments. Hey, nothing against any sort of musician, but what the hell is an "indie" musician? And isn't just casually mentioning something like drugs sort of like asking "when did you stop beating your wife?" Next thing would be to grouse about DB's accent and his obvious Britishness. Hey, you don't like the guy, that's cool. I'm warming up a bit to Angell but not really paying attention, saw his TV show recently and am not really into his image. Rock'n'roll celebrity worship, really, he was showing off his car collection. Yawn for me.

 

[Azrael 5]

He also clearly states "That is the only trick you are going to see in the next hour. These are not magic tricks. This is mind control."

No he doesn't.Not on Messiah.Which is what I was referring to.Derren was ill advised on his Mind Control series and regretted that claim,but he was starting out and needed to break the "magic mould".

Also, I'm a parole officer. I know when someone is high and won't mistake it for enthusiasm. Derren was higher than a kite both times.

Irrelevant,even if he was.Which I doubt.

Apparently you've never heard of "The Devil's Picturebook", a 3 hour DVD dedicated to spoiling all manner of tricks.

With that one comment any small credibility you had has vapourised.But DJM has adressed it so it needs no further repetition.

Or Derren's book "Tricks of the Mind", which does the same. Derren has probably spoiled more tricks than any other magician, actually.

Again,rubbish.

Smoke is a card trick, yes. Just because it's a card trick does not mean it's infallible. I witnessed it failing two times in a row live, although that could be due to Derren's love of amphetamines.

Not sure but I think that's libel.Mods?

Odd how you say I'm dumb and ill informed when you can't even grasp basic English Grammar.

Oops.

I witnessed it failing two times in a row live

Tut tut.Remember what I said about credibility.

ETA: I've seen every tour and he has never performed "Smoke" live.I would go as far as to say it's part of his act(card tricks)he doesn't perform anymore.

 

[pjh]

No he doesn't.Not on Messiah.Which is what I was referring to.Derren was ill advised on his Mind Control series and regretted that claim,but he was starting out and needed to break the "magic mould".

While you're defending Messiah - if Messiah is meant to be what it claims to be why did he feel in necessary to overdub a fake 'NLP' routine on the remote viewing section?

Derren pulls off a remote viewing of the boat picture (by whatever means there are a number of ways he could have done it) which is fine - this is the stated purpose of the program - to show how these people can be deceived and how credulous they are.

But what purpose then in the editing suite adding the fake "sail through your mind" "don't go overboard" to the soundtrack? That's not stage magic, it's edit suite trickery to what end? For our (the viewing public) enjoyment? or merely to continue deceiving the gullible that what he does has something to do with psychology?

Either way - Messiah was not billed as entertainment and using the editing suite to fake your tricks is bloody poor form.

 

[Azrael 5]

While you're defending Messiah - if Messiah is meant to be what it claims to be why did he feel in necessary to overdub a fake 'NLP' routine on the remote viewing section?

Derren pulls off a remote viewing of the boat picture (by whatever means there are a number of ways he could have done it) which is fine - this is the stated purpose of the program - to show how these people can be deceived and how credulous they are.

But what purpose then in the editing suite adding the fake "sail through your mind" "don't go overboard" to the soundtrack? That's not stage magic, it's edit suite trickery to what end? For our (the viewing public) enjoyment? or merely to continue deceiving the gullible that what he does has something to do with psychology?

I've checked the show on DVD,yes he does overdub thsoe words as scenes are blurirng thorugh one another in slow spped.He also overdubs the words "another one" and "Yeah ..okay I think we're done" Which serve no purpose.So it really doesn't back your cheating claim.
I do not know the reason but maybe there is a legitimate one.

Either way - Messiah was not billed as entertainment *snip*

Derren states at the beginning "Using my skills of magic,suggestion,psychology and showmanship",it doesn't state "entertainment" but as it's a TV show featuring a magician it's self evident.

and using the editing suite to fake your tricks is bloody poor form.

Well,I agree but the overdub does not make the trick,neither is an edit needed.Criss Angel and David Blaine are the culprits of edits to improve illusions.

 

[pjh]

I've checked the show on DVD,yes he does overdub thsoe words as scenes are blurirng thorugh one another in slow spped.He also overdubs the words "another one" and "Yeah ..okay I think we're done" Which serve no purpose.So it really doesn't back your cheating claim.
I do not know the reason but maybe there is a legitimate one.

I'm sorry - your logic appears to be :
Because he dubs in another bit that isn't pretending to 'force' an idea into the drawer's head then the edit suite dubs that do give the TV viewer the idea he NLPed her are somehow legitimate? Rubbish. What legitimate reason would he have to add fake audio that makes it seem to the TV audience that he influenced the choice that the woman would make?

Also take the very famous and oft quoted Ad-men Taxidermy trick, where he does the 'reveal' taxi journey at the end of the trick, but again the entire taxi sequence is an edit suite hack job where he cuts film of them travelling with shots of what they supposedly saw on their trick - but didn't, all the 'psychological influences' were filmed separately and cut into the film. (the only contemporaneous 'influence' is the picture at the sliding doors- which is a different form of dishonesty - a scene cut out of sequence purporting to be of them arriving ).

It's lazy and dishonest and in the UK Derren has done more to promote NLP woo than anyone else - I wouldn't so much mind if they were real tricks - but they're not. He does a standard remote viewing/sealed envelope trick and then in the edit suite adds scenes/audio that appears to show that he somehow influenced them to make the choice they did. TBH I think it's pathetic.

 

[Big Les]

Wow, I like Derren, and I don't even mind him using NLP etc as the "new woo" as long as its covered by his famous disclaimer, but that editing stuff is pretty lame.

 

[Azrael 5]

I'm sorry - your logic appears to be :
Because he dubs in another bit that isn't pretending to 'force' an idea into the drawer's head then the edit suite dubs that do give the TV viewer the idea he NLPed her are somehow legitimate? Rubbish. What legitimate reason would he have to add fake audio that makes it seem to the TV audience that he influenced the choice that the woman would make?

You are suggesting editing via overdub deliberately. He could just as well have said that line live.Does it matter? Maybe he messed his lines up or some other technical reason. Tell me what he has to gain from inserting words he could have said at the time?

Also take the very famous and oft quoted Ad-men Taxidermy trick, where he does the 'reveal' taxi journey at the end of the trick, but again the entire taxi sequence is an edit suite hack job where he cuts film of them travelling with shots of what they supposedly saw on their trick - but didn't, all the 'psychological influences' were filmed separately and cut into the film. (the only contemporaneous 'influence' is the picture at the sliding doors- which is a different form of dishonesty - a scene cut out of sequence purporting to be of them arriving ).

It's lazy and dishonest and in the UK Derren has done more to promote NLP woo than anyone else - I wouldn't so much mind if they were real tricks - but they're not. He does a standard remote viewing/sealed envelope trick and then in the edit suite adds scenes/audio that appears to show that he somehow influenced them to make the choice they did. TBH I think it's pathetic.

We've been through this "NLP Derren Woo" before.He has never said he uises NLP.End of.
He isn't using editing to create the effect.Merely to provide a reason for the viewer,it's TV! As I said earlier,a sealed envelope trick on its own would be boring,it's just making iit more interesting.

I say again the tricks aren't edited to make them.

 

[pjh]

You are suggesting editing via overdub deliberately. He could just as well have said that line live.Does it matter? Maybe he messed his lines up or some other technical reason. Tell me what he has to gain from inserting words he could have said at the time?

What do you mean what does he have to gain? how possibly could he have said the words at the time?

Before the lady drew a boat - derren couldn't have known what she was going to draw - so there's no way he could have said the line live when he was asking her to make her drawing - that's the whole point of my objection - after the trick is over, in the edit suite he adds in the lines that make him look like he somehow knew/influenced what she was going to draw - there's no way the boat line could have been said before she actually drew the boat, BECAUSE WHEN HE ASKED HER TO TO DRAW THE BOAT HE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT SHE WAS GOING TO DRAW.

What he did was a very standard sealed envelope/ replicate drawing trick, but a dishonest edit dresses it up to be something very different.

We've been through this "NLP Derren Woo" before.He has never said he uises NLP.End of.
He isn't using editing to create the effect.Merely to provide a reason for the viewer,it's TV! As I said earlier,a sealed envelope trick on its own would be boring,it's just making iit more interesting.

I say again the tricks aren't edited to make them.

I'm not claiming he edited to pull off the (base) trick, I believe he replicated her drawing of the boat 'fairly' using one of a number of methods mentalists use to reproduce drawings. My point is then he uses editing to make the trick look more impressive and to add the 'psychological twist' that he's famous for, the sole purpose of which is to reinforce the belief in the gullible that much of what he does is done using 'psychology'.

If he could have pulled off what we saw in messiah without overdubbing himself 'predicting' what she would draw then the trick would indeed be impressive (as would the taxidermy advert tick), but he didn't - using camera tricks/editing like this is very poor form for a TV magician.

 

[Azrael 5]

I see your point about saying the line,I only watched it once and misunderstood.
The edit is nothing more than misdirection for TV audience(he states he uses misdirection on his shows,maybe not in the way you would expect but misdirection nonetheless),had he edited the base effect I would object.He states he is a magician at the beginning of every show.Derren just gives the audience a reason for the trick.It' s nothing more than that.
He has never sold woo.