The JREF is not an atheist organization

[dglas]

Why do you feel you have to have been challenged to take action? It is your gripe.

You really do need to develop some focus.
Stop fishing; it is unbecoming.

It looks very much indeed as if you have some persecution complex.

Can't argue the point (for whatever reason), attack the arguer, eh?
Your fallacies are showing.


And now, from the school of the Claus recursion circus...

Should JREF not have answered the question?

I answered that several times already. Feel free to look back at my recommendations for an answer.

"No", then. (If I'm wrong, just tell me)

A much better way of saying what may have been intended, is that neither theistic nor atheistic attitudes have any special status as far as the JREF is concerned.

That would be a "You are wrong."



Unrepentant Sinner:
I didn't miss the point. I merely raised another, intricately related one, after seeing what I thought was an interesting question asked by Darat that no one else directly addressed. Sorry if that annoys you (to the point of accusations of mental instability, no less!) For Pete's sake! Have you no shame?

 

[CFLarsen]

You really do need to develop some focus.
Stop fishing; it is unbecoming.

Whatever your motives are, they aren't what you claim them to be.

Can't argue the point (for whatever reason), attack the arguer, eh?
Your fallacies are showing.

And yet, you continue with:

And now, from the school of the Claus recursion circus...

That would be a "You are wrong."

OK, I'm wrong: JREF should have answered the question. But not with "JREF is not an atheist organization".

Their answer should have been "JREF is an atheist organization"?

It isn't. Why would you want JREF to say something that isn't true?

 

[dglas]

OK, I'm wrong: JREF should have answered the question. But not with "JREF is not an atheist organization".

"Should" is a dicey normative word, but with that disclaimer, yes.

Their answer should have been "JREF is an atheist organization"?

False alternatives.

It isn't. Why would you want JREF to say something that isn't true?

Leading question.

That "Is the JREF is an atheist organization?" question requires more than a simple yes or no. It has force beyond its affirmation or denial. That is my point. I'm sorry if you can't see any alternatives to yes or no. I'm not sorry if you won't see any alternatives to yes or no.


BTW: I think I know my motives better than you do. I could be wrong about that, though. Please, do feel free to present evidence to the contrary.

 

[CFLarsen]

"Should" is a dicey normative word, but with that disclaimer, yes.



False alternatives.



Leading question.

That "Is the JREF is an atheist organization?" question requires more than a simple yes or no. It has force beyond its affirmation or denial. That is my point. I'm sorry if you can't see any alternatives to yes or no. I'm not sorry if you won't see any alternatives to yes or no.


BTW: I think I know my motives better than you do. I could be wrong about that, though. Please, do feel free to present evidence to the contrary.

You are talking utter nonsense.

 

[dglas]

You are talking utter nonsense.

LOL
That's one possibility.
Or you could be completely out of your depth...
Or maybe some other alternative...

Always leave room for the possibility of error, Claus.
That's how we learn and grow.

 

[CFLarsen]

LOL
That's one possibility.
Or you could be completely out of your depth...
Or maybe some other alternative...

Always leave room for the possibility of error, Claus.
That's how we learn and grow.

What does "neutral" with respect to theism/atheism mean?

 

[The Atheist]

I see that Richard Dawkins seems to think that JREF is an atheist organisation - it is included in the "Atheist Resources" page.

Shall I get him to remove it?

 

[chillzero]

I see that Richard Dawkins seems to think that JREF is an atheist organisation - it is included in the "Atheist Resources" page.

Shall I get him to remove it?

Maybe that is resources for atheists, rather than actual atheist organisations. That's how I read a title like "Atheist Help & Resources"


Could you stop the bickering, please?

 

[The Atheist]

Maybe that is resources for atheists, rather than actual atheist organisations. That's how I read a title like "Atheist Help & Resources"

What non-atheist resources would an atheist require? Given that all of those sites are atheist, as far as I can see - apart from JREF.

Could you stop the bickering, please?

How is this bickering? The thread appears to be discussing whether or not JREF is an atheist organisation. Surely, the perception of JREF by declared atheists is valid in that case?

 

[CFLarsen]

I see that Richard Dawkins seems to think that JREF is an atheist organisation - it is included in the "Atheist Resources" page.

He also lists the Skeptics Society, the Australian Skeptics, and the New Zealand Skeptics.

Are they all atheist organizations?

What makes you think Dawkins thinks e.g. the Skeptics Society is an atheist organization?

Shall I get him to remove it?

Do you really think you can order Dawkins to do anything?

 

[CFLarsen]

What non-atheist resources would an atheist require? Given that all of those sites are atheist, as far as I can see - apart from JREF.

You clearly haven't looked all that much:

New Zealand Skeptics

The New Zealand Skeptics form a network of New Zealanders including magicians, teachers, scientists, health professionals and many others from all walks of life. Members have a variety of religious faiths, economic beliefs and political leanings, but are all interested in examining what objective scientific support there is for claims of such things as psychic abilities, alternative health practices, creationism and other areas where science, pseudo—science and shonky science interact.
Source

Does that sound atheist to you?

 

[The Atheist]

What makes you think Dawkins thinks e.g. the Skeptics Society is an atheist organization?

You're asking to me to read Dawkins' mind? I thought you didn't believe in that stuff?

You clearly haven't looked all that much:

Obviously not far enough anyway! I'm not aware of anyone at NZS who is religious, so I'll check that out.

 

[CFLarsen]

You're asking to me to read Dawkins' mind? I thought you didn't believe in that stuff?

You clearly thought you could read Dawkins' mind before. When faced with reality, you now backtrack like crazy.

Obviously not far enough anyway! I'm not aware of anyone at NZS who is religious, so I'll check that out.

Why didn't you read the description?

Do you really think you can order Dawkins to do anything?

 

[chillzero]

OK, please stop this, as we are veering away from the topic, which is specifically the JREF.

 

[hammegk]

Does that sound atheist to you?

It sounds like it has little to do with the question. JREF has deists, theists, buddhists, etc, too.

 

[CFLarsen]

OK, please stop this, as we are veering away from the topic, which is specifically the JREF.

It proves that The Atheist's claims about Dawkins thinking that JREF is an atheist organization is...well, false.

That fact is now established, so we can all move on.

 

[CFLarsen]

It sounds like it has little to do with the question. JREF has deists, theists, buddhists, etc, too.

Who at JREF is a theist?

And who is a Buddhist?

What does "etc" cover?

 

[The Atheist]

You clearly thought you could read Dawkins' mind before. When faced with reality, you now backtrack like crazy.

No backtracking involved, I have paid the price for not being thorough enough. Just as I will with NZS, I'll send some e mails and check.

Some of us don't need to avoid owning up to errors of omission.

 

[hammegk]

Who at JREF is a theist?

And who is a Buddhist?

Those who might wish to can out themselves. I choose not to do so.

What does "etc" cover?

For example, wiccan.

Conversely, should my statements be false, what isJREF if not an atheist organization?

 

[CFLarsen]

Those who might wish to can out themselves. I choose not to do so.
...
For example, wiccan.

Conversely, should my statements be false, what isJREF if not an atheist organization?

No, no, no, no, no.

You made the claim. You back it up with evidence.

Who at JREF is a theist?

Who at JREF is a Buddhist?

Who at JREF is a Wiccan?

Names, please.