Derren Brown Trick or treat

[littlehulkster]

He's claiming to hypnotize people into thinking they're a ventriloquist's dummy using embedded triggers.

If that's not major league woo, I don't know what is.

As for the mentalism, watch this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bwWJmE2qPo&feature=related

That's a pretty sloppy rendition of that trick and it's pretty damn clear how he does it (Subliminal influence has nothing to do with it)

 

[Bob Klase]

He's claiming to hypnotize people into thinking they're a ventriloquist's dummy using embedded triggers.

Is he claiming that during performances? Or is he running around claiming that all the time?

Perhaps we should ban all performances where anyone ever claims anything that's not true- that would eliminate movies and television (including "reality shows").

 

[DJM]

He's claiming to hypnotize people into thinking they're a ventriloquist's dummy using embedded triggers. If that's not major league woo, I don't know what is.

Derren used to be a stage hypnotist in his early years, and that's the sort of stuff that they do. Is that kind of hypnosis 100% real? Not according to Derren himself. He explains exctly what it's all about in his The Heist TV special, in his books, and even his website:

Is it possible to get someone to obey ANY order? Are they hypnotised?

"You have to realise that hypnosis doesn't exist: it just works on people's natural suggestibility, their expectations and capacity to unconsciously role play. You can't make someone do anything they don't want to do."
"Clearly if a hypnotist could make someone steal £100k just by telling them to, the world would be a different place, and I suspect that hypnotists wouldn't bother doing shows in pubs or dodgy Spanish holiday resorts. So the challenge of the show is to insiduously massage these people to the point that they will make the decision themselves to hold up an armoured security van and point a gun at the guard, but without ever telling them to do so."


Derren is an entertainer, he doesn't claim to be something that he's not. Like he keeps saying, he's honest about his dishonesty. That has nothing to do with Woo, it's about presentation and not taking things seriously. Just like seeing Copperfield fly has nothing to do with Woo.

As for the mentalism, watch this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bwWJmE2qPo&feature=related

That's a pretty sloppy rendition of that trick and it's pretty damn clear how he does it (Subliminal influence has nothing to do with it)

Well it wasn't clear and sloppy to many of the people who replied to that video.. That is, until you had the nerve to expose the secret and ruin it for everyone. If I took my time and exposed the secrets of every magic trick that seemed clear to me on Youtube by other magicians, it would take me a long long time. But I wouldn't, because there's something that is called ethics that clearly you know nothing about,.

Seriously, grow up. You sound like a bitter child who can't enjoy anything, and always has to ruin things to feel better. Many professional mentalists see Derren as the best thing that has happened in the last 10 years, and they keep trying to learn from his presentation style and techinques. And there's a good reason for that.

 

[tkingdoll]

He's claiming to hypnotize people into thinking they're a ventriloquist's dummy using embedded triggers.

OK, imagine that this happens to you.

A woman tells you that she is in love with a boy but her parents have forbidden her to be with him. While you watch, she tells you that she is going to drink something that will make her appear to die and in faking her own death will be able to run away with her lover. She drinks it, and appears to be dead. Her lover turns up, sees the body and believes her to be genuinely dead. He screams at you that he can't live without her and right in front of your eyes he stabs himself to death. Just at that moment the woman wakes up and sees him dead, yells at you that life is unliveable, grabs the knife and stabs herself! Dead!

It's incredible! These people told you exactly how they felt and what they were doing. You heard their claims with your own ears and and you saw them do it with your own eyes.

 

[littlehulkster]

Derren used to be a stage hypnotist in his early years, and that's the sort of stuff that they do. Is that kind of hypnosis 100% real? Not according to Derren himself. He explains exctly what it's all about in his The Heist TV special, in his books, and even his website:

Is it possible to get someone to obey ANY order? Are they hypnotised?

"You have to realise that hypnosis doesn't exist: it just works on people's natural suggestibility, their expectations and capacity to unconsciously role play. You can't make someone do anything they don't want to do."
"Clearly if a hypnotist could make someone steal £100k just by telling them to, the world would be a different place, and I suspect that hypnotists wouldn't bother doing shows in pubs or dodgy Spanish holiday resorts. So the challenge of the show is to insiduously massage these people to the point that they will make the decision themselves to hold up an armoured security van and point a gun at the guard, but without ever telling them to do so."


Derren is an entertainer, he doesn't claim to be something that he's not. Like he keeps saying, he's honest about his dishonesty. That has nothing to do with Woo, it's about presentation and not taking things seriously. Just like seeing Copperfield fly has nothing to do with Woo.



Well it wasn't clear and sloppy to many of the people who replied to that video.. That is, until you had the nerve to expose the secret and ruin it for everyone. If I took my time and exposed the secrets of every magic trick that seemed clear to me on Youtube by other magicians, it would take me a long long time. But I wouldn't, because there's something that is called ethics that clearly you know nothing about,.

Seriously, grow up. You sound like a bitter child who can't enjoy anything, and always has to ruin things to feel better. Many professional mentalists see Derren as the best thing that has happened in the last 10 years, and they keep trying to learn from his presentation style and techinques. And there's a good reason for that.

That's cool.

He says it's not real in books and TV specials no one but magicians will ever watch.

Whereas on his TV show, he lays down a constant, massive line of pseudoscience woo ******** to explain tricks you could quite literally learn in a week, and then packages them up in a nice box with enough editing and postprocessing to make Michael Bay blush. At least Criss Angel is claiming vaguely realistic sounding explanations instead of "SUBLIMINAL HYPNOSIS SUGGESTION!"

Sorry, but I just can't be impressed with this guy. All his tricks either reek strongly of stooges or are so simple anyone with a copy of 13 steps and 20 minutes a day could do them.

When he tries something new and unique instead of wrapping up old tricks in shiny, multi-million dollar paper, I might like him. Until then? He's just another pretty face with dubious skills.

Also, it wasn't me who spoiled that trick on youtube.

OK, imagine that this happens to you.

A woman tells you that she is in love with a boy but her parents have forbidden her to be with him. While you watch, she tells you that she is going to drink something that will make her appear to die and in faking her own death will be able to run away with her lover. She drinks it, and appears to be dead. Her lover turns up, sees the body and believes her to be genuinely dead. He screams at you that he can't live without her and right in front of your eyes he stabs himself to death. Just at that moment the woman wakes up and sees him dead, yells at you that life is unliveable, grabs the knife and stabs herself! Dead!

It's incredible! These people told you exactly how they felt and what they were doing. You heard their claims with your own ears and and you saw them do it with your own eyes.

Tybalt never claims to kill Mercutio with his awesome mental powers.

 

[DJM]

That's cool.

He says it's not real in books and TV specials no one but magicians will ever watch.

Why would only magicians watch his TV specials? He films it all for the public on the same network as any of his other work, and it doesn't look much different than his regular shows. It would be stupid to film only for British magicians, as the ratings would be pretty much nonexistent. The whole point is to perform for laymen. This statment is even more absurd than the one you said about people watching him because he's pretty. Once again, WTF?

Whereas on his TV show, he lays down a constant, massive line of pseudoscience woo ******** to explain tricks you could quite literally learn in a week, and then packages them up in a nice box with enough editing and postprocessing to make Michael Bay blush. At least Criss Angel is claiming vaguely realistic sounding explanations instead of "SUBLIMINAL HYPNOSIS SUGGESTION!"

Derren says in the beiginning of every episode that he also combines magic, misdirection and showmanship. The things you just described is part of the showmanip, the misdirection. That's what magicians do, they give false explanations. If they told the truth then it would be pretty boring.

Funny that you mentioned Criss Angel, because he makes that kind of false explanations on his own shows, when he gives Mind Over Matter claims to overcome pain, which could also be seen as realstic Woo. In his mentalism episodes, Criss also gives those kind of explanations that are similar to what Derren does. And they are allowed to do that, because they are magicians. It's their job to do that. Derren and Criss are far from being the only mentalists/magicians who give psychological explanations, many others do. Go outside and watch some mentalism shows, instead of sticking to attack one person. Seems like you don't even know what mentalism is all about.

Sorry, but I just can't be impressed with this guy. All his tricks either reek strongly of stooges or are so simple anyone with a copy of 13 steps and 20 minutes a day could do them.

When he tries something new and unique instead of wrapping up old tricks in shiny, multi-million dollar paper, I might like him. Until then? He's just another pretty face with dubious skills.

Once again, show me one mentalist who doesn't perform effects written in 13 Steps, almost everything is based on that. What most mentalists like about Derren is that he takes some of those ideas to a new direction and also his style of showmanship.

Not to mention that Derren has invented some great new effects himself, such as Smoke, Lift, Reminiscence, Plerophoria etc. So he doesn't take it all from 13 Steps. And it wouldn't be bad if he did, it's a book that has inspired all those other performers as well.

Maybe you are just angry that Derren is pretty, at least that's what I've gathered from your posts. All your other complaints don't make much sense.

 

[littlehulkster]

Why would only magicians watch his TV specials? He films it all for the public on the same network as any of his other work, and it doesn't look much different than his regular shows. It would be stupid to film only for British magicians, as the ratings would be pretty much nonexistent. The whole point is to perform for laymen. This statment is even more absurd than the one you said about people watching him because he's pretty. Once again, WTF?

The public aren't really interested in seeing 2 hour TV specials where Derren explains sleight of hand (Of course, passing it off as awesome mental powers the entire time)

Derren says in the beiginning of every episode that he also combines magic, misdirection and showmanship. The things you just described is part of the showmanip, the misdirection. That's what magicians do, they give false explanations. If they told the truth then it would be pretty boring.

Derren says in the beginning of every episode that he combines Psychology, magic, misdirection and showmanship. One of those things does not belong.

Also, I do believe our own James Randi put it the best in Conjuring:

My personal conviction is that any performer owes his audience a fair statement. It may be difficult to believe, but ethical conjurors do not lie to their audiences! They allow spectators to assume untruths; they mislead them; they even represent (by inference) that a piece of equipment is unprepared, when it might well contain a pretty lady about to be produced for the edification of an admiring crowd.
[...]
[W]hen you hear a magician telling you that the person he has chosen from the audience is not a confederate, you should be able to depend on that to be true. If you are told that no camera tricks are being used in a television presentation, you should be able to believe it. This is nothing more than truth in advertising.

Funny that you mentioned Criss Angel, because he makes that kind of false explanations on his own shows, when he gives Mind Over Matter claims to overcome pain, which could also be seen as realstic Woo. In his mentalism episodes, Criss also gives those kind of explanations that are similar to what Derren does. And they are allowed to do that, because they are magicians. It's their job to do that. Derren and Criss are far from being the only mentalists/magicians who give psychological explanations, many others do. Go outside and watch some mentalism shows, instead of sticking to attack one person. Seems like you don't even know what mentalism is all about.

Funny how you have at least 20 posts ranting about Criss Angel and how dumb he is, yet you readily admit that your masturbatory hero Derren Brown does the exact same thing.

At least Criss Angel performs tricks that the average idiot couldn't do. Anyone with 13 steps and 13 million for production could do everything Derren Brown does, and probably do it quite a bit better. That man's sleight of hand is so sloppy in some demonstrations, he'd need an artillery piece going off as misdirection.

Once again, show me one mentalist who doesn't perform effects written in 13 Steps, almost everything is based on that. What most mentalists like about Derren is that he takes some of those ideas to a new direction and also his style of showmanship.

His style of showmanship? Criss Angel has a unique style. Derren is presenting ordinary tricks in an ordinary manner and then allowing his massive production budget to make them look like they're extraordinary. Not to mention his persona seriously makes me want to punch his smug face in.

Not to mention that Derren has invented some great new effects himself, such as Smoke, Lift, Reminiscence, Plerophoria etc. So he doesn't take it all from 13 Steps. And it wouldn't be bad if he did, it's a book that has inspired all those other performers as well.

Not to mention that Derren has done some boring old tricks and let his production crew make them look like great new effects by editing and processing them more than the entire Matrix trilogy.

Maybe you are just angry that Derren is pretty, at least that's what I've gathered from your posts. All your other complaints don't make much sense.

Maybe you are just angry because I've sleighted your mancrush, at least that's what I've gathered from your posts. All of your retorts, along with your bizarre hatred of people who do the exact same thing that Brown does (And a fair deal better, IMO) don't make much sense.

 

[DJM]

The public aren't really interested in seeing 2 hour TV specials where Derren explains sleight of hand (Of course, passing it off as awesome mental powers the entire time)

What the heck are you talking about? He never had any specials about explaining selight of hand. He does mentalism there, just like on his regular shows. You continue not to make any sense.

Derren says in the beginning of every episode that he combines Psychology, magic, misdirection and showmanship. One of those things does not belong.

No, they all belong there as he does sometimes use psychology in his effects. Smoke, for example, combines psychology.

Also, I do believe our own James Randi put it the best in Conjuring:

I've only heard good things from Randi about Derren Brown, and how he's a great mentalist. You won't hear attacks from him anytime soon, they are good friend.

Funny how you have at least 20 posts ranting about Criss Angel and how dumb he is, yet you readily admit that your masturbatory hero Derren Brown does the exact same thing.

At least Criss Angel performs tricks that the average idiot couldn't do. Anyone with 13 steps and 13 million for production could do everything Derren Brown does, and probably do it quite a bit better. That man's sleight of hand is so sloppy in some demonstrations, he'd need an artillery piece going off as misdirection.

I think Criss' magic is dumb, yes. I appreciate his mentalism effects much more. But maybe because he has Banachek working with him to help him out with that.

[/quote]
His style of showmanship? Criss Angel has a unique style. Derren is presenting ordinary tricks in an ordinary manner and then allowing his massive production budget to make them look like they're extraordinary. Not to mention his persona seriously makes me want to punch his smug face in.

What is Criss' style? Wearing goth clothes and shouting Mindfreakkk at the camera? He looks like a cheesy rock star trying to do magic, and I can't stand his huge ego. He only seems to be talking about himself instead of caring about the audience. If you like that kind of showmanship that's your right. I'd rather see the kind of performers who speak in an intelligent way.

Not to mention that Derren has done some boring old tricks and let his production crew make them look like great new effects by editing and processing them more than the entire Matrix trilogy.

Says the one who likes Criss Angel, the king of camera tricks and stooges. You are such a funny man. Have you seen Derren's stage shows? He really shows his skills live, no editing there.

Maybe you are just angry because I've sleighted your mancrush, at least that's what I've gathered from your posts. All of your retorts, along with your bizarre hatred of people who do the exact same thing that Brown does (And a fair deal better, IMO) doesn't make much sense.

My man crush? You are the only one who keeps talking about how good looking he is and that he has a pretty face, something that I couldn't really care less about.

You are a funny troll, I got to admit. Much more than Skippy.

 

[littlehulkster]

What the heck are you talking about? He never had any specials about explaining selight of hand. He does mentalism there, just like on his regular shows. You continue not to make any sense.

For loving Derren Brown, you don't know much about his career.

Look up "The Devil's Picturebook"

No, they all belong there as he does sometimes use psychology in his effects. Smoke, for example, combines psychology.

If by psychology, you mean 100% USDA certified woo ********, then yes, they contain psychology.

I've only heard good things from Randi about Derren Brown, and how he's a great mentalist. You won't hear attacks from him anytime soon, they are good friend.

Randi likes everyone who makes even a minimal effort to debunk psychics. Just because James Randi likes him doesn't mean I have to.

You missed the point of that quote entirely.

I think Criss' magic is dumb, yes. I appreciate his mentalism effects much more. But maybe because he has Banachek working with him to help him out with that.

Derren Brown has Andy Nyman working with him. So much so, he's copied several of Nyman's old acts pretty much verbatim, only changing the patter to meet his usual woo ********.

What is Criss' style? Wearing goth clothes and shouting Mindfreakkk at the camera? He looks like a cheesy rock star trying to do magic, and I can't stand his huge ego. He only seems to be talking about himself instead of caring about the audience. If you like that kind of showmanship that's your right. I'd rather see the kind of performers who speak in an intelligent way.

What's Derren's style? Wearing a purple lined suit and being an ******* to people? He looks like a failed indie band singer and I can't stand his huge ego.
He only seems to be talking about himself and his AWESOME POWERS while he telegraphs all his tricks like he's a drunken blind man.

If you like that kind of showmanship, that's your right. I'd rather see performers do tricks I can't.

Says the one who likes Criss Angel, the king of camera tricks and stooges. You are such a funny man. Have you seen Derren's stage shows? He really shows his skills live, no editing there.

I never claimed to like Criss Angel. I'm not overly fond of his goth Captain Jack persona, nor do I really like his stance on camera tricks and editing. I was just pointing out that you're extremely outspoken against him when your hero Derren does the same ******** you hate Criss for.

I have seen Derren live. Twice, actually. I was not impressed either time. He's no Penn and Teller. He's not even a mildly entertaining no name guy from a FOX TV special.

My man crush? You are the only one who keeps talking about how good looking he is and that he has a pretty face, something that I couldn't really care less about.

You are a funny troll, I got to admit. Much more than Skippy.

Well, you defend him so rabidly that I can only ascertain that you're either in love with him or actually him.

Typical Derren Brown fan, I got to admit. Throwing up seas of insults whenever anyone doesn't blindly love your masturbatory hero.

 

[DJM]

For loving Derren Brown, you don't know much about his career.

Look up "The Devil's Picturebook"

Devil's Picturebook is a home made DVD sold only to magicians through his website. I've been talking about TELEVISION specials, shown on TELEVISION. Such as The Heist. Please continue to argue with yourself, it's really fun.

If by psychology, you mean 100% USDA certified woo ********, then yes, they contain psychology.

Again, I have no idea what you are tlaking about. The method of smoke combines psychology, just like he explains in Pure Effect. (also only sold just to magicians, don't run to the bookstore). He has other effects that combines psychology for the method. So he's honest about that.

Randi likes everyone who makes even a minimal effort to debunk psychics. Just because James Randi likes him doesn't mean I have to.
You missed the point of that quote entirely.

I understood the quote very well, I just found it pretty funny to see who was the one who was saying it.

Derren Brown has Andy Nyman working with him. So much so, he's copied several of Nyman's old acts pretty much verbatim, only changing the patter to meet his usual woo ********.

Andy helps him writing the scripts and the ideas for his TV show and stage shows. If he didn't like Derren or his direction, he would have left years ago. Derren always give credit to Andy and admits he's a great help. Not sure what your problem is. They are a team.

If you like that kind of showmanship, that's your right. I'd rather see performers do tricks I can't.

A kids birthday party?

I never claimed to like Criss Angel. I'm not overly fond of his goth Captain Jack persona, nor do I really like his stance on camera tricks and editing. I was just pointing out that you're extremely outspoken against him when your hero Derren does the same ******** you hate Criss for.

I have seen Derren live. Twice, actually. I was not impressed either time. He's no Penn and Teller. He's not even a mildly entertaining no name guy from a FOX TV special.

That's your right. I find Derren very entertaining myself, and I know he's inspired many others to do mentalism. Before him, mentalism wasn't really popular on TV or the UK. Now it is. I usually hear just good things about him on mentalism and magic forums. About Criss not so much.

Well, you defend him so rabidly that I can only ascertain that you're either in love with him or actually him.

Typical Derren Brown fan, I got to admit. Throwing up seas of insults whenever anyone doesn't blindly love your masturbatory hero.

Your gayish metaphors are very interesting, pretty much follows the direction from your previous posts. Not that there's anything wrong with that of course. Whatever makes you happy.

 

[littlehulkster]

Again, I have no idea what you are tlaking about. The method of smoke combines psychology, just like he explains in Pure Effect. (also only sold just to magicians, don't run to the bookstore). He has other effects that combines psychology for the method. So he's honest about that.

By smoke, you mean the hit or miss trick (That Derren Brown didn't invent, but rather just modified older card tricks and added his usual woo patter) that only works if the person wants to be tricked? The one that I saw fail two consecutive times live? That's a pretty awesome trick there.

Also, you can pretty easily do that trick via pure trickery without needing any Derren Brown AWESOME MENTAL POWERS!

Every single time I've seen him explain a trick with psychology, it's been pseudoscience nonsense like hypnotic trances, hidden triggers, subliminal suggestion and other woo. I have, as of yet, seen him use a real valid psychological effect (besides muscle reading, which is used by every mentalist ever) in his tricks.

I understood the quote very well, I just found it pretty funny to see who was the one who was saying it.

That doesn't change the fact that Derren is outright lying to his audiences.

Andy helps him writing the scripts and the ideas for his TV show and stage shows. If he didn't like Derren or the enormous mounds of money he's paid by Derren, he would have left years ago. Derren always gives massive burlap sacks full of money with dollar signs on them to Andy and admits he's a great help. Not sure what your problem is. They are a team.

Fixed.

A kids birthday party?

When I watch Derren Brown's tricks, I either can perform the trick myself, or I can very easily explain and understand how it's done.

When I watch Penn & Teller, I see no tricks I can do myself and some (Their Shadows bit being the first one in my mind) that I cannot possibly explain.

When I go and see a rich, big name magician, I expect a good, perplexing show, not a failed member of Modest Mouse sloppily performing tricks that any idiot can see straight through. Derren's show would be awesome if he was an amateur, or even a no name pro, but from a man who has enough money to make a Scrooge McDuck money swimming pool, I expect more than that.

That's your right. I find Derren very entertaining myself, and I know he's inspired many others to do mentalism. Before him, mentalism wasn't really popular on TV or the UK. Now it is. I usually hear just good things about him on mentalism and magic forums. About Criss not so much.

That's your right. Many people find Criss very entertaining (He has a 10 year contract on the Vegas strip, something Derren Brown couldn't dream of), and I know he's inspired many others to do mentalism. Before him, Mentalism wasn't really popular on TV or the US. Now it is. I usually hear good things (With the exception of sour grapes from people who dislike him because of his stage persona) within the magic community. He did win magician of the year, after all.

Your gayish metaphors are very interesting, pretty much follows the direction from your previous posts. Not that there's anything wrong with that of course. Whatever makes you happy.

Your rabid defense of this man is very interesting, pretty much follows the direction from your previous posts. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course (Besides it being terribly creepy.) Whatever makes you happy.

 

[pjh]

Every single time I've seen him explain a trick with psychology, it's been pseudoscience nonsense like hypnotic trances, hidden triggers, subliminal suggestion and other woo. I have, as of yet, seen him use a real valid psychological effect (besides muscle reading, which is used by every mentalist ever) in his tricks.

Muscle reading - now there's an excellent example of psychology in action in a magic show.

"The spectator, who must know the withheld information, is asked to concentrate on making the demonstration a success."
http://www.randi.org/encyclopedia/muscle reading.html

Someone who knows where something is located is told to lead the magician to it and to "make the demonstration a success". Concentrate on making the demonstration a success is a euphemism for 'Instant Stooge'.

Muscle reading doesn't work when the subject doesn't want to lead someone to an item - but magically does when the subject does want to help out - just how 'involuntary' are the movements being detected?

As with DB's supposed psychological forces where he subconsciously gets the mark to 'choose' the 4 or diamonds by using hand gestures that describe the card (making the shape of a diamond - then the pips in the air) you've got to wonder - who's fooling who?

 

[littlehulkster]

I really think that subconscious card/symbol/color/whatever choice stuff only works on you if you want it to. Even before I learned magic, it very rarely ever worked on me because I always approached magic acts with skepticism instead of instantly suspending disbelief.

Now that I know a few tricks, I wonder how it can work on anyone.

 

[Bob Klase]

When I watch Derren Brown's tricks, I either can perform the trick myself, or I can very easily explain and understand how it's done.

When I watch Penn & Teller, I see no tricks I can do myself and some (Their Shadows bit being the first one in my mind) that I cannot possibly explain.

So you're like an 8 year old watching a magician. If you happened to have read the book or already know the trick he's doing then it's not a good trick. If you haven't read that particular book then it's a good trick because you can't figure it out.

Now that I know a few tricks, I wonder how it can work on anyone.

That's a very common reaction among laypeople (and laypeople who think they're a magician)- they find out a a few tricks work and wonder how it can work on anyone. They don't worry about figuring out why it worked on them before they learned how it worked (which is something that often involves psychology).

 

[DJM]

By smoke, you mean the hit or miss trick (That Derren Brown didn't invent, but rather just modified older card tricks and added his usual woo patter) that only works if the person wants to be tricked? The one that I saw fail two consecutive times live? That's a pretty awesome trick there.

Smoke is about combining a psychological force on someone. It can't really fail, because there's always an out, also involved a form of psychology.

Every single time I've seen him explain a trick with psychology, it's been pseudoscience nonsense like hypnotic trances, hidden triggers, subliminal suggestion and other woo. I have, as of yet, seen him use a real valid psychological effect (besides muscle reading, which is used by every mentalist ever) in his tricks.

So what if you have seen that?! That's what mentalists do, they perform effects and give you false explanation, psychological or supernatural. There are no mentalists who do something and then say: "It's just a trick, there's nothing uinique involved." Being angry about a mentalists who gives false explanation is ridiculous. That's their job.

That doesn't change the fact that Derren is outright lying to his audiences.

Of course he does, he's a mentalist. It's his job to lie. At his Something Wicked stage show he said right to the audience that he's going to lie to them and that he's honest about his dishonety. What do you want him more to do? To say before every effect that it's just a trick? That would keep the audience really amazed.

Fixed.

Oh, you are one of the "Fixed" people. Let me tell you a little secret.. it stopped being clever 4 years ago.

When I watch Derren Brown's tricks, I either can perform the trick myself, or I can very easily explain and understand how it's done.

When I watch Penn & Teller, I see no tricks I can do myself and some (Their Shadows bit being the first one in my mind) that I cannot possibly explain.

Bob said it pretty well in his post. You sound like a typical layman who can't enjoy mentalism because he's read 13 Steps or whatever. I know the secrets of many effects done by mentalists because I've read a lot about it. But my ego is not that big enough not to enjoy the shows. It does fool the audience who have read nothing about the secrets, which is to who the mentalists perform for. They couldn't care less if you know the secrets, they want to entertain the right people.

Penn and Teller do a different style of performance than Derren or others. It's like comparing Copperfield to Derren. There's a difference between magicians and mentalists. Try to compare another mentalist do Derren if you want to have some sort of point.

That's your right. Many people find Criss very entertaining (He has a 10 year contract on the Vegas strip, something Derren Brown couldn't dream of), and I know he's inspired many others to do mentalism. Before him, Mentalism wasn't really popular on TV or the US. Now it is. I usually hear good things (With the exception of sour grapes from people who dislike him because of his stage persona) within the magic community. He did win magician of the year, after all.

Your rabid defense of this man is very interesting, pretty much follows the direction from your previous posts. Not that there's anything wrong with that, of course (Besides it being terribly creepy.) Whatever makes you happy.

Am I talking to a parrot? It seems like you keep repeating my words and changing them to some of yours to make it seem witty.

Well, it's not witty. Just annoying. Come back when you can have a normal discussion without looking like a troll.

 

[Azrael 5]

edit* and then packages them up in a nice box with enough editing and postprocessing to make Michael Bay blush.

Yet you big up Criss Angel?

Not to mention that Derren has done some boring old tricks and let his production crew make them look like great new effects by editing and processing them more than the entire Matrix trilogy.

Tv shows need to be bigger better and more pzazz;but your cry of stooges is ineffectual without proof.Do you have any? There's nothing new under the sun where magic is concerned.Its all about re-packaging and re-framing effects with new presentations.

In the 1920's Sawing a woman in half was invented with huge clunky boxes and a method today that is readily transparent.But check out Kalin and Jinger Thin Sawing or Pendragons Clearly Impossible sawing(both on YouTube) same boring sawing in half?

Magic has moved on,Derren has taken it into 21st Century.His live shows have no stooges or camera tricks or editing,and sell out every year.He is a conssumate performer.
Unless you ahve proof of his stooges and editing etc kindly refrain from discussing something you have no knowledge of.

 

[JonWhite]

Another goat-eating, bridge dweller?

What the heck is it about this thread!!

 

[littlehulkster]

Yet you big up Criss Angel?



Tv shows need to be bigger better and more pzazz;but your cry of stooges is ineffectual without proof.Do you have any? There's nothing new under the sun where magic is concerned.Its all about re-packaging and re-framing effects with new presentations.

In the 1920's Sawing a woman in half was invented with huge clunky boxes and a method today that is readily transparent.But check out Kalin and Jinger Thin Sawing or Pendragons Clearly Impossible sawing(both on YouTube) same boring sawing in half?

Magic has moved on,Derren has taken it into 21st Century.His live shows have no stooges or camera tricks or editing,and sell out every year.He is a conssumate performer.
Unless you ahve proof of his stooges and editing etc kindly refrain from discussing something you have no knowledge of.

Have you actually seen Derren live? His show isn't impressive at all for a man of his fame and wealth. Not because of the tricks, but because of the presentation. When I see a millionaire magician, I expect elephants riding unicycles, not a guy doing tricks I could do in the same way that I see local magicians doing them. The only difference I see between Brown's live presentation and that of an amateur is his fancy background.

Also, he seemed high both times I saw him. Very obviously so, actually. Quite the consummate performer there.

His TV show is seriously him sitting at a table doing basic tricks in a basic manner, which is then edited by his producers to look exciting and edgy. Kalin and Jinger are actually performing these tricks in a new, exciting way, instead of just doing them the same way everyone always has and letting their production team make it look unique.

If you can't see that his show is pretty heavily edited and processed, I think you're in dire need of a vision check. The camera pans constantly and wanders around like Mr. Magoo's helmet cam, and there's so much processing applied to some of his Trick or Treat stuff that it seriously looks like the Matrix with it's colored films on everything.

Also, I clearly said I'm not overly fond of Criss Angel. I was just pointing out that Derren does the same things everyone hates Criss for. I have no idea why disliking Derren Brown is considered heresy around these parts.

Smoke is about combining a psychological force on someone. It can't really fail, because there's always an out, also involved a form of psychology.

It can fail if the person you're trying to do it to doesn't want to be tricked.

So what if you have seen that?! That's what mentalists do, they perform effects and give you false explanation, psychological or supernatural. There are no mentalists who do something and then say: "It's just a trick, there's nothing uinique involved." Being angry about a mentalists who gives false explanation is ridiculous. That's their job.

It's really hilarious how you say this, and then hate Criss angel for giving the same patter during his tricks. You have numerous posts bashing Criss for being a woo promoter, yet when Derren does it, you retort with "THAT'S WHAT MENTALISTS DO, OK?"

Of course he does, he's a mentalist. It's his job to lie. At his Something Wicked stage show he said right to the audience that he's going to lie to them and that he's honest about his dishonety. What do you want him more to do? To say before every effect that it's just a trick? That would keep the audience really amazed.

See above.

Bob said it pretty well in his post. You sound like a typical layman who can't enjoy mentalism because he's read 13 Steps or whatever. I know the secrets of many effects done by mentalists because I've read a lot about it. But my ego is not that big enough not to enjoy the shows. It does fool the audience who have read nothing about the secrets, which is to who the mentalists perform for. They couldn't care less if you know the secrets, they want to entertain the right people.

There are mentalist routines I like. Derren Brown's isn't one of these.

I'm actually a big fan of Banachek, which is probably because he hasn't let his head grow to the circumference of Neptune because he can perform simple tricks and looks like an indie singer.

Penn and Teller do a different style of performance than Derren or others. It's like comparing Copperfield to Derren. There's a difference between magicians and mentalists. Try to compare another mentalist do Derren if you want to have some sort of point.

You missed my point entirely.

Penn & Teller perform good tricks in an entertaining manner. Derren does not. He doesn't even attempt to.

Am I talking to a parrot? It seems like you keep repeating my words and changing them to some of yours to make it seem witty.

Well, it's not witty. Just annoying. Come back when you can have a normal discussion without looking like a troll.

I was pointing out the absurdity of your endless rants against Angel, actually.

Another goat-eating, bridge dweller?

What the heck is it about this thread!!

I wasn't aware that I had to like the same things as everyone else, lest I be labeled a troll.

I'm pretty sure "YOU MUST LIKE DERREN BROWN AND WANT TO HAVE HIS MANBABIES" isn't anywhere in the forum rules.

 

[DJM]

It can fail if the person you're trying to do it to doesn't want to be tricked.

The same can be said just about every trick in the world, which is done on a spectator. But thankfully not many have the same childish attitude that you have and actually want to be tricked and have fun. I've seen that specific effect performed on a few different people, and it got some very powerful reactions. That's what it should all be about.

It's really hilarious how you say this, and then hate Criss angel for giving the same patter during his tricks. You have numerous posts bashing Criss for being a woo promoter, yet when Derren does it, you retort with "THAT'S WHAT MENTALISTS DO, OK?"

If you start talking here about previous posts of mine at least get your facts right. I've made it clear a few times that I have no problem with magicians making Woo claims in their presentation or anywhere else, including Criss. My only complaint about Criss was that he's trying to bust other performers for promoting Woo, while he does the exact same thing himself. It was to show all his hypocrisy.

And I find it really annoying that on Phenomenon he has the nerve to call all the routines tricks, and even expose the name of the Pk touches for everyone at home to hear. That's pretty much the "I'm a skeptic, and so I have the right to ruin it for others" attitude that I'm reading from your own posts.

You missed my point entirely.

Penn & Teller perform good tricks in an entertaining manner. Derren does not. He doesn't even attempt to.

You have the right for that opinion. I find Derren very entertaining, and I guess also all those who fill his stage shows every time, and those who have been watching all his different TV shows and specials in the last 7 years or so.

I was pointing out the absurdity of your endless rants against Angel, actually.

Yes, I'm sure that arguing like an annoying troll would make people take your points seriously.

 

[Bob Klase]

I'm pretty sure "YOU MUST LIKE DERREN BROWN AND WANT TO HAVE HIS MANBABIES" isn't anywhere in the forum rules.

Maybe not. But your repetitive ad hominem attacks (which seem to rooted in your own homophobia, or perhaps fear of your own sexual desires) certainly don't do anything to improve your weak arguments. They just make you look ignorant.