More Fun with Homeopath Dana Ullman, MPH(!)

Of course, the very sad, sad reality is that we in the U.S. are headed for an explosion of homeopathic medicine. It is inevitable that this country will be sentenced to socialized medicine; this is likely to happen after the next elections. Socialized medicine is the best ally homeopathy can have; take, for instance, the case of the U.K. No less than five (5) fully operational homeopathic "hospitals" all of which are financed by the state socialized medical system. It appears, for some reason uknown to me, that socialist healthcare types and nut-jobs tend to believe in and support one another. Other countries who have difficulty with this include South Africa, German, and Sweden. In the U.S., there is also massive support for both socialized medicine and bogus quackery in a variety of huge unions including the NEA. I don't know why teachers always seem to be into these idiotic beliefs. In any case, we're fighting a losing battle; homeopathy will win out. It will become an accepted part of the healthcare system as a "cheap" alternative; money will flow to them like water. There is no accounting for taste or belief.
 
Mojo said:
***cough***

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94636
http://dcscience.net/?p=167

I kind of like the idea of illness or accident not bankrupting me, BTW.
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This is excellent news of which I was not aware! Thanks for posting. Incidentally, I like the idea of your illness/accident not bankrupting me through horrific taxation. That is, each person is resonpsible for himself/herself. Neverthless, I will avoid the political discussion as this thread is focused on homeopathy rather than socialism v. capitalism. The support, however, for woo beliefs in the U.S. amongst the major labor unions and others who will usher in socialized medicine is quite strong. Healing herbs, crystals, magic water, indian sweat lodges; you name it. I strongly expect that such nonesense will have to run its course here once we are stricken with socialized medicine despite the obvious and painful examples apparent in other countries. My compliments to the UK for cleaning house.
 
Nernst equation? Either silliness or a potential partial explanation from someone who many of you recognize as a genius. The homeopathic nanodoses may indeed be more able to diffuse through cell membranes than crude doses of a medicine, and when you consider that homeopathy is based on RESONANCE (what homeopaths refer to as "the law of similars") and when you consider the hypersensitivity that occurs with resonance, we may have something here.

And as the Beatles once said, "here's another one for you all..."

Below is further evidence of the amazing psychic powers of mice. Mice seem to be able to elicit a poweful placebo effect if (and only if) they can psychically determine that they are part of the treatment group, as compared to the less psychic mice who were given a placebo. It seems that many people on this list believe in the power of intuitive mice rather than the less probable possiblity that homeopathic doses of arsenic trioxide (a very common homeopathic medicine!) can elicit specific biochemical processes...read it and weep...

There are now many studies testing homeopathic arsenic trioxide in animal and human models...and heck, even conventional oncologists have jumped on board, though with not-as-diluted doses of it.


J Vet Med A Physiol Pathol Clin Med. 2007 Sep;54(7):370-6.Links
A potentized homeopathic drug, arsenicum album 200, can ameliorate genotoxicity induced by repeated injections of arsenic trioxide in mice.Banerjee P, Biswas SJ, Belon P, Khuda-Bukhsh AR.
Department of Zoology, University of Kalyani, Kalyani 741235, India.

Groundwater arsenic contamination has become a menacing global problem. No drug is available until now to combat chronic arsenic poisoning. To examine if a potentized homeopathic remedy, Arsenicum Album-200, can effectively combat chronic arsenic toxicity induced by repeated injections of Arsenic trioxide in mice, the following experimental design was adopted. Mice (Mus musculus) were injected subcutaneously with 0.016% arsenic trioxide at the rate of 1 ml/100 g body weight, at an interval of 7 days until they were killed at day 30, 60, 90 or 120 and were divided into three groups: (i) one receiving a daily dose of Arsenicum Album-200 through oral administration, (ii) one receiving the same dose of diluted succussed alcohol (Alcohol-200) and (iii) another receiving neither drug, nor succussed alcohol. The remedy or the placebo, as the case may be, was fed from the next day onwards after injection until the day before the next injection, and the cycle was repeated until the mice were killed. Two other control groups were also maintained: one receiving only normal diet, and the other receiving normal diet and succussed alcohol. Several toxicity assays, such as cytogenetical (chromosome aberrations, micronuclei, mitotic index, sperm head anomaly) and biochemical (acid and alkaline phosphatases, lipid peroxidation), were periodically made. Compared with controls, the drug fed mice showed reduced toxicity at statistically significant levels in respect of all the parameters studied, thereby indicating protective potentials of the homeopathic drug against chronic arsenic poisoning.

PMID: 17718811 [PubMed - in process]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/e...ez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
 
JamesGully said:
Nernst equation? Either silliness or a potential partial explanation from someone who many of you recognize as a genius. The homeopathic nanodoses may indeed be more able to diffuse through cell membranes than crude doses of a medicine, and when you consider that homeopathy is based on RESONANCE (what homeopaths refer to as "the law of similars") and when you consider the hypersensitivity that occurs with resonance, we may have something here.
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Seriously? Or maybe you are having fun with skeptics here.
 
JamesGully said:
Nernst equation? Either silliness or a potential partial explanation from someone who many of you recognize as a genius. The homeopathic nanodoses may indeed be more able to diffuse through cell membranes than crude doses of a medicine, and when you consider that homeopathy is based on RESONANCE (what homeopaths refer to as "the law of similars") and when you consider the hypersensitivity that occurs with resonance, we may have something here.

And as the Beatles once said, "here's another one for you all..."

Below is further evidence of the amazing psychic powers of mice. Mice seem to be able to elicit a poweful placebo effect if (and only if) they can psychically determine that they are part of the treatment group, as compared to the less psychic mice who were given a placebo. It seems that many people on this list believe in the power of intuitive mice rather than the less probable possiblity that homeopathic doses of arsenic trioxide (a very common homeopathic medicine!) can elicit specific biochemical processes...read it and weep...

There are now many studies testing homeopathic arsenic trioxide in animal and human models...and heck, even conventional oncologists have jumped on board, though with not-as-diluted doses of it.


J Vet Med A Physiol Pathol Clin Med. 2007 Sep;54(7):370-6.Links
A potentized homeopathic drug, arsenicum album 200, can ameliorate genotoxicity induced by repeated injections of arsenic trioxide in mice.Banerjee P, Biswas SJ, Belon P, Khuda-Bukhsh AR.
Department of Zoology, University of Kalyani, Kalyani 741235, India.

Groundwater arsenic contamination has become a menacing global problem. No drug is available until now to combat chronic arsenic poisoning. To examine if a potentized homeopathic remedy, Arsenicum Album-200, can effectively combat chronic arsenic toxicity induced by repeated injections of Arsenic trioxide in mice, the following experimental design was adopted. Mice (Mus musculus) were injected subcutaneously with 0.016% arsenic trioxide at the rate of 1 ml/100 g body weight, at an interval of 7 days until they were killed at day 30, 60, 90 or 120 and were divided into three groups: (i) one receiving a daily dose of Arsenicum Album-200 through oral administration, (ii) one receiving the same dose of diluted succussed alcohol (Alcohol-200) and (iii) another receiving neither drug, nor succussed alcohol. The remedy or the placebo, as the case may be, was fed from the next day onwards after injection until the day before the next injection, and the cycle was repeated until the mice were killed. Two other control groups were also maintained: one receiving only normal diet, and the other receiving normal diet and succussed alcohol. Several toxicity assays, such as cytogenetical (chromosome aberrations, micronuclei, mitotic index, sperm head anomaly) and biochemical (acid and alkaline phosphatases, lipid peroxidation), were periodically made. Compared with controls, the drug fed mice showed reduced toxicity at statistically significant levels in respect of all the parameters studied, thereby indicating protective potentials of the homeopathic drug against chronic arsenic poisoning.

PMID: 17718811 [PubMed - in process]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/e...ez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
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I might consider this if I was a mouse with arsenic poisoning but if I were a hunam being with "upset stomach, vomiting, diarrhea. Esp. Hay fever. Food poisoning and diarrhea", I think I would question what the relevance is. :confused:

Are you sure you are a professional on top of the research in your field? I would have thougth the paper at the following site was more supportive of your case than the one you referenced. Though I suggest the sample sizes are rather small.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1375236

And, as the Rolling Stones once sang, "You can't always get what you want . . ."
 
OMG, just noticed this....

JamesGully said:
Does anyone out there know anything about the Nernst equation?

On March 10, 1994, NATURE published an article called "Less is More," in their Daedalus column in which the author suggests that homeopathy may be explained by this electrochemical effect.

As the author says, "The Nernst equation asserts that this potential grows montonically more negative as the concentration of the solution declines."

I'm trying to create intelligent conversation. Anyone want to try that?
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Do I see right? Is JamesGully in all seriousness referencing the Daedalus column in favor of homeopathy???

:eek: ...:covereyes ..... :o ..... :blush: ...... :p ......:D .....
:dl: :dl:

....

Oh, boy, you just made my day.
Oh, dear, good thing I hadn't fetched my coffee yet.

Hans (wipes eyes)

ETA: And he asks for intelligent conversation :roll: .....
 
MRC_Hans said:
Do I see right? Is JamesGully in all seriousness referencing the Daedalus column in favor of homeopathy???
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I'm afraid to say he is.

Maybe Alt. Med. contains so much that is laughable that people lose the ability to spot deliberate jokes. I've aid this before, I've never come across such a po-faced bunch.
 
They don't seem to have the capacity to understand jokes, or to realise when one is being made, or to laugh at anything funny directed against themselves or anybody else. "Daedalus" would have a fit if he thought anyone was taking his little pleasantry seriously! The idea that anyone is so scientifically illiterate that he can't understand the joke, and even worse, thinks it's a serious comment, is simply appalling. The idea that such a person puts himself about as a sort of medical guru is just risible.

Nor do they have any critical faculties when looking at published work (I use "work" in its loosest sense). James/Dana, you still haven't offered any comment on the critique we offered of Rustum Roy's UV spectroscopy publication. You accused us of having no "scientific chops". That post contains a pukka letter to the editor of the journal, signed by 3 PhDs and a nearly-PhD, demolishing Roy's presented data. We asked for your reaction. So far, none has been forthcoming.

You see, every time we look in detail at a publication which is being lauded by the homoeopathic community, in an area where we have particular expertise, we find the same thing. It's rubbish. Now not everyone is an expert in every aspect of science that has been used to prop up the mouldering corpse that is homoeopathy, so not everyone can critique every paper at the drop of a hat. But every time we assemble expertise in the right area, in this case UV spectroscopy, we find something so incompetently executed and presented that the possibility of deliberate misdirection or even fraud presents itself rather forcefully. Not one paper have I ever seen where the relevant experts were left saying, well, that's interesting....

Grow up, why don't you?

Rolfe.
 
Judging by what Ullman wrote on my blog, the only response he will have to criticism of Roy's paper is that Roy has a PhD and has "gotten 18 articles published in a journal called NATURE", so what do we know? I doubt any useful comments on our critique of Roy's paper will be forthcoming.

Since we're dealing with arguments from authority, it's tempting to just write 'Dana Ullman MPH, wilsontown BSc, PhD' and have done with it...
 
wilsontown said:
Judging by what Ullman wrote on my blog, the only response he will have to criticism of Roy's paper is that Roy has a PhD and has "gotten 18 articles published in a journal called NATURE", so what do we know? I doubt any useful comments on our critique of Roy's paper will be forthcoming.

Since we're dealing with arguments from authority, it's tempting to just write 'Dana Ullman MPH, wilsontown BSc, PhD' and have done with it...
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Assuming Pipirr's thesis is acccepted, which I imagine might be the case by now, that letter of ours was signed by FOUR PhDs. In relevant fields, too - I for one studied UV spectoscopy and use it every day I work. JJM knows more than I do about it. And so on.

So, where does that leave Roy's credentials? Isn't it about time Dana started looking at the arguments rather than the degrees? (And as you say, if we start that one, Dana himself comes up woefully short.)

Rolfe.
 
Hello, JamesGully. If you're still reading here, was your curiosity about the Nernst equation as mentioned in the Daedalus essay satisfied by the answers here? If you are still thinking it might be a potential part-explanantion, you could probably get some more detailed answers.
 
MRC_Hans said:
Do I see right? Is JamesGully in all seriousness referencing the Daedalus column in favor of homeopathy???
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I'm waiting for the next installment... he finds an unfunny cartoon from an 1894 edition of Punch magazine and claims it as unchallengeable evidence of the effectiveness of homeopathy.
 
This is just too funny! Ullman has shown up on the Grauniad's blog. Not only has he completely failed to spot the joke in the Little Black Duck's response to Winterson, but having complained about "mis-information", he then can't resist plugging his book in the same paragraph!
DanaUllman said:
Then, these skeptics attack homeopathy with mis-information. It is a tad ironic that the "quackometer" website even had the audacity to refer to Jeanette Winterson's "In Defense of Homeopathy" as a "blistering attack on it. These skeptics spin and spin and spin, but they do not accurately report research. You have to ask yourself why do they never mention the below studies...(please note that all of the references below are available at my article, Why Homeopathy Makes Sense and Works, [...] and even more research is in my new book, "The Homeopathic Revolution: Why Famous People and Cultural Heroes Choose Homeopathy"
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:dl:

Has he any self-awareness at all?
 
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