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Rosemary Hunter...

I do think it would be interesting to understand the process by which she came to believe that she had these powers. I mean, presumably, it must have at least appeared to succeed at one point. Wouldn't we all at least be curious to have seen the security video footage of that party!? :)
 
I do think it would be interesting to understand the process by which she came to believe that she had these powers. I mean, presumably, it must have at least appeared to succeed at one point. Wouldn't we all at least be curious to have seen the security video footage of that party!? :)
Indeed.

The mystic power to make other people urinate seems to be so weird that I think there is a tale to tell in just how she got the idea. A pity that we will never hear that tale.

She seemed to indicate that she has got the power from God who will conveniently fill up the bladders that she will empty. I have this feeling that she has actually never tested it on other persons, and that she was using the JREF test as her own test of faith: She had a belief that God would do this trick for her if only she prayed for it and her faith was firm. She was a bit dazed after the test, and she did not claim foul play from the skeptics, but perhaps she will post-rationalize and think that the skeptics bad faith nullified her prayers, because otherwise she will have to accept that her own faith was not strong enough to make God do her bidding, or God is not all he is cracked up to be.
 
Well, Jeff clearly gave her the forum address, so hopefully she will sign up, and let us know how this came about.
 
I'm guessing the power of suggestion was a big help. If you test a random number of people and tell them "I'm going to make you pee psychically", a certain percentage are going to feel like they have to pee.
 
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I'm guessing the power of suggestion was a big help. If you test a random number of people and tell them "I'm going to make you pee psychically", a certain percentage are going to feel like they have to pee.
Sure, but how many will feel like that if she tells them empty their bladder first? (I know, a few will always feel like that. But for Ms Hunter this percentage made her try for the million bucks)
 
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Faith is more easily modified than discarded, so I'll wish the best that I can hope for any applicant, that the experience leaves her with a healthy and more constructive notion of how it is the universe works.
 
Indeed.

The mystic power to make other people urinate seems to be so weird that I think there is a tale to tell in just how she got the idea. A pity that we will never hear that tale.

She seemed to indicate that she has got the power from God who will conveniently fill up the bladders that she will empty. I have this feeling that she has actually never tested it on other persons, and that she was using the JREF test as her own test of faith: She had a belief that God would do this trick for her if only she prayed for it and her faith was firm. She was a bit dazed after the test, and she did not claim foul play from the skeptics, but perhaps she will post-rationalize and think that the skeptics bad faith nullified her prayers, because otherwise she will have to accept that her own faith was not strong enough to make God do her bidding, or God is not all he is cracked up to be.

Well, she tried it on the guy who wrote the newspaper article that counted as her media presence, and remotely tried it on me. That's two others, at least, that we know of ;)
 
Faith is more easily modified than discarded, so I'll wish the best that I can hope for any applicant, that the experience leaves her with a healthy and more constructive notion of how it is the universe works.

The easy thing would be a cynic bark. Instead, I second petre's post wholeheartedly.
 
Darn, I was really hoping Ms. Hunter would succeed, thinking that if she could make people pee, maybe she could make people not pee. I'd have signed up for that test!

(And I'm living, breathing proof that a bladder can fill up sufficiently to require emptying again within the 15 minute timeframe.)
 
I was wrong; she did show up. A true believer I guess. She must be terribly disillusioned at the moment. At least I hope so.
 
I was wrong; she did show up. A true believer I guess. She must be terribly disillusioned at the moment. At least I hope so.

Being a True Believer[tm], why would she be terribly disillusioned?

Perhaps Ms. Hunter will join the JREF Forum and enlighten us to her thoughts.
 
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Just saw the footage at YouTube. I really have to take my hat off to the JREF folks for being so truly kind and compassionate with Rosemary.

They never once ridiculed her beliefs, never accused her of trickery or trying to be deceitful, they took pains to explain everything to her as concisely and fairly as possible, and paid her compliments about her overall attitude.

In the end I thought for sure they would shove the cameras in her face and bombard her with questions like "Well, NOW what do you think? Do you STILL believe that you have this power? Are you disappointed?" They just explained that she could try again in a year and escorted her out.

Well done!
 
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I'm a little shocked, and a little disappointed, that this is the calibre of applicants the JREF have resorted to testing. You basically made a deluded woman pay hundreds of dollars for a round-trip air fare based on the credulous say-so of a local newspaper reporter. Yes she was nice, yes she was cooperative, yes she was humble - but what has the world learned, really, from this spectacle?

This seems like a pathetic attempt to make cheap jokes at someone else's expense.

April was supposed to be a watershed; a new era of chasing the big guns. Most of us here supported that, as efforts would be spent chasing the really harmful woos as opposed to the deluded or mentally ill. Testing a non-entity from Cleveland who makes people pee is a massive step backwards, if you ask me.
 
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Nobody "made" her fly to Florida. She chose to.

Because some local journo convinced her she was the real deal. The 'media presence' requirement, in this case, is probably what made the difference between her spending the money to fly to Florida and staying at home. This woman was set up to fail for a cheap laugh, and it strikes me as pretty antithetical to the post-April mission statement. Weren't the April changes supposed to put a stop to this kind of vapid challenge?

Isn't Ms. Hunter only the second person (other than Ms. Landin) to have the results of a test published since April? If this is the best the JREF can do, it's a rather sad indictment.
 
Isn't Ms. Hunter only the second person (other than Ms. Landin) to have the results of a test published since April? If this is the best the JREF can do, it's a rather sad indictment.
They have made it much more difficult to apply for the test. How much more difficult would you suggest it should be made? Do not forget that all applicants are deluded. Those who know that they are frauds will not apply.
 
Well, I take your point, Steenkh. This is a procedural matter.

My first suggestion would be that if, as we were told in April, the JREF want to spend time, money and effort combating the big guns of the woo industry, the media requirement be treated much more strictly. The say-so of one local reporter shouldn't count as a "media presence" for the application, because it wouldn't in any other context. My own subjective opinion of this is that the endorsement of one small-time reporter may have bolstered her opinions of her skills such that she was persuaded to make a not inconsiderable outlay to come get tested. That seems exploitative to me.

The media requirement, supposed to dissuade these kind of poor, deluded saps, seems to have had a role in actually persuading her to travel for the test. In other words, it's had the opposite effect to that originally intended. Would she have flown to Florida had she applied in January, without this media support? I don't know, but I suspect not.

My other concern is this: if the April changes, as we all hoped, were intended to prevent small-time applicants from wasting the JREF's time and resurces, and underpin a more aggressive stance towards the big guns of the paranormal industry,the very fact that Ms Hunter is only the second test published since then is a sure sign those changes have failed.
 
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My own subjective opinion of this is that the endorsement of one small-time reporter may have bolstered her opinions of her skills such that she was persuaded to make a not inconsiderable outlay to come get tested.
She also got endorsed from an academic whom she had made feel uneasy enough that he signed her affidavit.

My other concern is this: if the April changes, as we all hoped, were intended to prevent small-time applicants from wasting the JREF's time and resurces, and underpin a more aggressive stance towards the big guns of the paranormal industry,the very fact that Ms Hunter is only the second test published since then is a sure sign those changes have failed.
Surely, there are much fewer applicants than before. The point about ms. Hunter is that she did not raise problems with the test, whereas most claimants wrangle about the protocols for a long time, and then give up.
 
I'm a little shocked, and a little disappointed, that this is the calibre of applicants the JREF have resorted to testing.
Well, what do you expect, a "real" psychic to step up to the plate?

In the old days there were hucksters who tried to get the prize by fooling JREF. Every magician knows how hard it is to fool other magicians, but it's not impossible. I'm an amateur magician and I'm constantly fooled by other magicians, even when they work in my field of expertise. But the problem is, that these magicians would be forced to with video cameras on them, even from the "bad angles" (magician lingo for the angles which reveal the trick), and for many tricks, they know damn well it's impossible. Equally important to many magical stunts is the "preparation" (stacking decks, false shuffles, etc.) and the "clean up" (disposing of evidence or gimmicks once the effect is presented) ... when these elements are removed, the huckster knows he'll never get away with it.

Now the charlatans all abort the process while trying to hammer out the protocol. Sylvia Browne is a classic case: she knows what she's doing is a trick, and she knows there's no way in hell she'd ever pass the test. In fact the only reason why she agreed in the first place is because she was put on the spot on the Larry King show, and didn't want to look foolish. Had Randi challenged her on the telephone instead, she would have told him to go to Hell.

The Pear people fit into Sylvia's category: they know damn well what they are doing, which is passing off regular cables as if they are some great breakthrough, all to make a buck. They figured they could get good press by locking horns with Randi, and who knows, maybe they are right. If they can just spin it to appear that it was Randi, and not them, who chickened out, then they can profit from their encounter even without being tested.

So with the hucksters out of the way, there's only one category left to actually make it to the preliminaries: the poor deluded people who think they have a special power when in fact they do not. But that doesn't just include self-deluded people like Rosemary, it includes the homeopathic advocates, acupuncture advocates, and more.

I agree with you that it's a little disappointing, but this is what it's come to. Instead of interpreting that as a step backwards, think of it as a triumph: the charlatons have given up the notion winning through trickery.
 
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I was going to send the video link to my friends, but I wasn't sure what to use on the subject line.

Hey! Wanna see video of a guy NOT peeing?
 

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