[Merged]LCFC Errors / Loose Change Final Cut

[Hyperviolet]

Do you have any evidence that Wall Street Journal did not confirm the story?

Errm. Swing, that's a negative claim. Akin to the Parable of the Celestial Teapot.

The burden of proof is on the positive claimant, that is; The Wall Street Journal did confirm the story.

Do you have such evidence?

 

[Swing Dangler]

That's just blatantly not true. The Purdue simulation had the wings carry on into the building. Have you not seen it?

I may have been thinking of the WTC simulation. I apologize for the error.

Are there holes in the facade that I missed where the wings carried on into the building?

One other issue, are they now manufacturing invincible passenger plane tails?

 

[Alt+F4]

So, it's true that no metal was tested and found to be at those temperatures, contrary to claims in LCFC?

Rudy has used the 2000 degree fire in many speeches, I'm assuming he got this information from the FDNY.

Loose Change:The Final Insult goes into the old story about this molten metal. Can someone please tell me what the hell is the connection between molten metal and a controlled demolition? Would either thermite or conventional explosives continue to burn for weeks afterwards despite lots of rain? Isn't the whole point of a controlled demolition to get the job done simply?

 

[jon]

Bin Laden denies responsibility


Easy one. The only "proof" of his denial were letters apparently written by him sent to Al-Jazeera. However, there is plenty of video evidence of him praising the hijackers, talking to them, and taking responsibility. An unconfirmed versus multiple videos? I'll bet on the latter.

Not to mention that - even if the denial was genuine - Bin Laden may not be the most reliable source. He has also claimed that - for example - him and his 'comrades' in the Afghan insurgency saw no evidence that the US were involved...

 

[AMTMAN]

At least he dropped the insulting Burlingame thing.

Wow, that's like an admission that he was wrong!

 

[JamesB]

Do you have any evidence that Wall Street Journal did not confirm the story?
Also, how can you speak for the Wall Street Journal or its associated blogs in the first place?
If so I would like to see that.

The Best of the Web is a blog, not an investigative news show. Twice I have sent them articles and they showed up just a few hours laters, even got my name mentioned at the bottom, so no, they do not investigate stories.

 

[Undesired Walrus]

It is, on the surface of it, extremely bizarre (Atta's will). The FBI not releasing the original Arabic copy only fuels a 'God of the Gaps' argument.

Maybe we will never know, and an explanation will never be found, and we will always wonder.

But what we can tell for sure, is that this in no way proves the Government were involvement in the attacks. It's wierd, but it still fails to be evidence.

Dylan just needs to track down the baggage handlers, establish why the bags were not loaded, etc. I fail to see the need for an independent inquiry, on the basis of lost luggage.

 

[Alt+F4]

Speaking of the hijackers here's a real conspiracy for you. Why was the mayor of Patterson, New Jersey keeping track which Pattersonians are going to Go Go Clubs and which are going to Mosques?

The Mayor of Patterson stated that they (the hijackers) are spotted more at Go Go Clubs than at Mosques.

And speaking of other weird things in this steaming pile, what is the point of telling us Llyod England belongs to the Blue Knights Motocycle Club?

 

[Swing Dangler]

Errm. Swing, that's a negative claim. Akin to the Parable of the Celestial Teapot.

Wrong. Pat is claiming the Wall Street Journal did not confirm the story. He could contact the relevant editors or bloggers and post their reply stating they did not confirm the story and thus his assumption would be proven correct with evidence.
Combined with other news outlets that covered the story along with Biden's comments, I think Pat's point is pointless.

 

[Undesired Walrus]

At least he dropped the insulting Burlingame thing.

No, it's there.

 

[Swing Dangler]

The Best of the Web is a blog, not an investigative news show. Twice I have sent them articles and they showed up just a few hours laters, even got my name mentioned at the bottom, so no, they do not investigate stories.

Well when they confirm that, I will believe that they don't confirm stories.

Are you stating the Times of India story is wrong? If so, can you provide evidence that it is wrong? If it is wrong, can you explain why Biden confirmed the ISI chief wiring money?

From Asia Times:
Mahmoud's involvement in September 11 might be dismissed as only Indian propaganda. But Indian intelligence swears by it, and the US Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) has confirmed the whole story: Indian intelligence even supplied Saeed's cellular-phone numbers. Nobody has bothered to check what really happened. The 9-11 Commission should pose very specific questions about it to FBI director Robert Mueller when he testifies this month. Source: Asia Times

Are you aware if the FBI has denied the confirmation of the India Times story?

 

[Hyperviolet]

Wrong. Pat is claiming the Wall Street Journal did not confirm the story. He could contact the relevant editors or bloggers and post their reply stating they did not confirm the story and thus his assumption would be proven correct with evidence.
Combined with other news outlets that covered the story along with Biden's comments, I think Pat's point is pointless.

I think you are missing the point here, Swing.

It was Loose Change who claimed the story was confirmed. They offered nothing to back it up. It's not Pat's job to call the Journal.

Example (using a deliberately silly scenario):

Person A: Boeing planes can't even reach 300mph. This was confirmed by their own public relations staff.

Person B: I have seen no such confirmation of this claim by anyone from Boeing.

Person A: Prove it wasn't confirmed!

Person B: Ehh actually, you made the claim of confirmation.

Person A: But you claimed that the claim was not confirmed. It's your job to phone around.


It doesn't work like that, Swing.

 

[MikeW]

Atta's will gets brought up a lot, but the Troofers never really consider anything beyond the oddity that he would have it on the plane with him (if it had made the connection). But why would a healthy man of 32 years have prepared a will if he didn't know he was about to die?

Atta's will was prepared in 1996 (http://911myths.com/index.php/Mohamed_Atta_Timeline) & so there's no reason to believe it had anything to do with the attacks.

 

[nicepants]

Is it just me, or does it look like all of the news footage has been cropped so as to avoid network logos (abc, nbc, cspan) from being shown on-screen. I wonder if this is due to copyright concerns?

 

[Undesired Walrus]

Atta's will was prepared in 1996 (http://911myths.com/index.php/Mohamed_Atta_Timeline) & so there's no reason to believe it had anything to do with the attacks.

I wondered if there was a date on this.

Seeing how his will is more about how he wants his physical body to be treated, I cannot see there being much use for it anymore. It is possible it was easy to just dispense of it.

I can't see how the hypothetical government conspirators can prove Atta's intentions either way with this.

 

[Alt+F4]

Sorry, but this whole ISI funding the 9/11 terrorists idea is just plain stupid. I understand that back in the 1980s the CIA had to fund the Afghans through untraditional means, but come on, we're talking about only $100,000 here. There's probably more than that in the CIA's petty cash box. Why go through the ISI at all?

 

[nicepants]

20:34 - "AI understand the witnesses we assumed we were gonna get to hear from from the Defense Department have been pulled." - Joseph Biden

Silverstein must have had a hand in that! They were pulled!!!

ETA: 20:41 - "..security clearance has been pulled"


Wow...must have had a lot of explosives to use up.

 

[Brainster]

Atta's will was prepared in 1996 (http://911myths.com/index.php/Mohamed_Atta_Timeline) & so there's no reason to believe it had anything to do with the attacks.

Correction gratefully accepted! So this is some form of standardized will? In some ways, that makes the request on how his genitals are to be cleaned even weirder.

 

[Mangoose]

....... particularly the lack of damage from the wings or vertical stabilizers"

How about this for the vertical stabilizer?

They're not bent outward, they're bent inward and to the left. Back and to the left, I guess.

LOL, you forgot to repeat that 10 times while showing us gory footage.

I might add that after the facade damage, the wings folded neatly back into the fuselage and slipped into the hole that the nose and fuselage created...well according to the Purdue simulation.

The Purdue simulation shows no such folding....they have the wings hitting square on.

 

[MikeW]

Correction gratefully accepted! So this is some form of standardized will? In some ways, that makes the request on how his genitals are to be cleaned even weirder.

Yes. I read somewhere that it was a machine-produced thing, basically you chose the options you wanted, it prints them out & you & a couple of witnesses sign it - job done. Unfortunately I forgot to note down where I read that (d'oh! rookie mistake), but there's a reference on the timeline page that also says it's a standardised will, so I'm confident that's correct.