Is Science getting closer to God and the Bible?

[Slimething]

I believe this to be a false statement. For example if someone molests a child. If God were to stop this, He would have to take away His greatest gift to humanity- the gift of free will. God will punish sin (and the molester) if we are to believe the bible. But He will never take away Free Will, once it has been given.

Devious little person, aren't you? First you state that I made a false statement then you do everything except demonstrate your point.

Answer the other posters' questions or be forever tagged as an evasive poopiehead.

 

[schlitt]

Or to put it yet another way...

The obligations of a Christian end once they get their own posterior behinds into heaven.

The obligations of a Jew only end when everyone else gets into heaven (or the Earthly Kingdom to come -- close enough).

The obligations of a Zen Buddhist only end when everyone else reaches Nirvana.

Again, my focus is not on the individual believer’s native altruism. It’s on the altruism the religion requires of the individual believer.

The obligations of anyone on earth ends once they are dead

Explain to me the different actions the religions require that deem them either self serving, or altruistic.

 

[DOC]

Originally Posted by DOC
I once read where Billy Graham believes we will do heavenly work on other planets in the afterlife.

That sounds very Mormon...

Yes, but mainline Christianity believes God is a Spirit. And Mormon theology says God lives in "human form" close to the planet/star Kolob.

 

[Hokulele]

Hey DOC, what about that link to an example of where you admitted you were wrong?

 

[DOC]

Hey DOC, what about that link to an example of where you admitted you were wrong?

I'll tell you what, If joobz agrees to apologize for making a false personal criticism of me, by saying I never admit I'm wrong. I'll bring in one of the times I admitted I was wrong. If he won't do that then why derail the thread.

But I got to give him some credit. At least he was specific when he made a personal attack. Most people in here, just make generalized statements, with no examples, when they make personal attacks. Any troll surfing the web could do that.

 

[Foster Zygote]

I believe this to be a false statement. For example if someone molests a child. If God were to stop this, He would have to take away His greatest gift to humanity- the gift of free will. God will punish sin (and the molester) if we are to believe the bible. But He will never take away Free Will, once it has been given.

The point was that the god you describe could stop this from happening. God needn't remove the child molester's free will to stop him from harming children. If you claim that God is all powerful then you are also claiming that he stands by and watches as children are victimized and murdered.

BTW, where exactly have you admitted to being wrong about something?

 

[Hokulele]

I'll tell you what, If joobz agrees to apologize for making a false personal criticism of me, by saying I never admit I'm wrong. I'll bring in one of the times I admitted I was wrong. If he won't do that why derail the forum.

Because I don't care about joobz or what he said. I am asking you to back up one of your statements.



Don't worry joobz, I do care about you. Just not in the context of this discussion.

 

[Foster Zygote]

I'll tell you what, If joobz agrees to apologize for making a false personal criticism of me, by saying I never admit I'm wrong. I'll bring in one of the times I admitted I was wrong. If he won't do that why derail the forum.

Joobz is only one of many people who have accused you of being unwilling to admit your errors. This proposition is a win/win for you isn't it? On the one hand you get to imply that you are owed an apology, on the other you have an excuse to avoid admitting that you do not admit to your errors even when you are clearly, baldly wrong, such as when you claim that written language is only 3200 years old, that Neanderthals were giant in stature, and that Europeans brought peace to North America.

 

[Ryan O'Dine]

The obligations of anyone on earth ends once they are dead

Explain to me the different actions the religions require that deem them either self serving, or altruistic.

Well, I think this derail, enjoyable as it was, may be circling in on itself at this point. If you'd like to take the discussion up in another thread, I’ll happily join you. If not... agree to disagree?

 

[Safe-Keeper]

I believe this to be a false statement. For example if someone molests a child. If God were to stop this, He would have to take away His greatest gift to humanity- the gift of free will. God will punish sin (and the molester) if we are to believe the bible. But He will never take away Free Will, once it has been given.

Anyone else than me start fuming whenever they hear rhetoric like this? What if I was to say the same thing, but on a smaller level?

I believe this to be a false statement. For example if someone molests a child. If the police were to stop this, they would have to take away the State's greatest gift to a citizen - the gift of freedom. The State will punish crime (and the molester) if we are to believe the law. But it will never take away freedom, once it has been given.

The worst thing is that people like DOC, unless he's a troll, actually buy into this logic.

He also, of course, overlooks that there's lots of tormenting from other sources than humans. What about natural disasters? Wild animals? Oh, wait, that's our just punishment for letting two people we never even knew steal two apples. Right, I forgot.

I'll tell you what, If joobz agrees to apologize for making a false personal criticism of me, by saying I never admit I'm wrong. I'll bring in one of the times I admitted I was wrong. If he won't do that why derail the forum.

Do for others what you want done for you.

 

[schlitt]

Well, I think this derail, enjoyable as it was, may be circling in on itself at this point. If you'd like to take the discussion up in another thread, I’ll happily join you. If not... agree to disagree?

For the moment let's agree to disagree. I tire quickly of playing devil's advocate for Christianity.

 

[Ladewig]

It would still not change the fact that some people would not want to see others needlessly suffer.

I did not say the number is zero. I agree that there would still be some who would do want to stop the eternal suffering of others. I just believe that the number of Christians who are primarily motivated by alturism is rather small.

 

[Ladewig]

It seems that way. [that DOC is a troll]

He never responds to direct arguments.
He never admits error.
His arguments are the worst form of popular tripe.
His methods are sloppy, and his conclusions are highly questionable.....

But aren't there a noticeable number of fundamentalist Christians that engage in all those behaviors? I am not convinced he is a troll.

I recant. DOC has a positive genius to perform all those things with a minimum of words. It is the simplicity of his non-sequiters, accusations, defiance, and general mulishness that convince me he really is that saddest of all internet animals: the troll.

 

[schlitt]

I did not say the number is zero. I agree that there would still be some who would do want to stop the eternal suffering of others. I just believe that the number of Christians who are primarily motivated by alturism is rather small.

This is certainly possible.

 

[joobz]

I'll tell you what, If joobz agrees to apologize for making a false personal criticism of me, by saying I never admit I'm wrong. I'll bring in one of the times I admitted I was wrong. If he won't do that then why derail the thread.

But I got to give him some credit. At least he was specific when he made a personal attack. Most people in here, just make generalized statements, with no examples, when they make personal attacks. Any troll surfing the web could do that.

I would gladly apologize for making a false accusation, if it is proved that I was wrong. So, please provide your proof.

Interestingly, you've had several opportunities to do just this, but have declined to do so. I wonder if it is becuase you are having a hard time finding such evidence.

Remember, I apologized for claiming that you never answered the "So what" question. You provided proof, and I apologized. Unfortunately, your evidence also proved that you falsey accused me of "lying" about your intentions. But, I guess that's an old story, isn't it?

 

[Safe-Keeper]

But aren't there a noticeable number of fundamentalist Christians that engage in all those behaviors? I am not convinced he is a troll.

The so-called 'Poe's Law' states, paraphrased, that it's sometimes very hard to distinguish real fundie from parody, because no matter how hard a troll tries to sound unbelievable, there will be real people out there who actually do hold the belief he is trying to convey, and so you never know if you're talking to a troll or do an actual ultra-fundamentalist.

 

[Ocelot]

I believe this to be a false statement. For example if someone molests a child. If God were to stop this, He would have to take away His greatest gift to humanity- the gift of free will. God will punish sin (and the molester) if we are to believe the bible. But He will never take away Free Will, once it has been given.

Doc,

Humanity attempts to implement a Justice system where crimes are punished by various means, usually incarceration. This serves a number of purposes.

a) Protects society by removing the bad influence,
b) Acts as a visible deterrent: potential criminals see convicted criminal being punished,
c) Attempts to rehabilitate the offender turning them back into a useful member of society.
d) Plain old nasty vengeance satisfying our base desires to strike back at those who have harmed us.

Given that God's system of justice is only implemented after death, is invisible to potential sinners who would have to believe fanciful and physically implausible stories to be deterred by it and offers no chance of return to rehabilitated to society, what remains as the effective purpose of God implementing a system of eternal torture for sinners and what does this say about your God?

 

[H3LL]

I believe this to be a false statement. For example if someone molests a child. If God were to stop this, He would have to take away His greatest gift to humanity- the gift of free will. God will punish sin (and the molester) if we are to believe the bible. But He will never take away Free Will, once it has been given.

Why would he stop it?

God thinks it's a good idea.

Numbers 31:18
18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

.

 

[Ryan O'Dine]

The so-called 'Poe's Law' states, paraphrased, that it's sometimes very hard to distinguish real fundie from parody, because no matter how hard a troll tries to sound unbelievable, there will be real people out there who actually do hold the belief he is trying to convey, and so you never know if you're talking to a troll or do an actual ultra-fundamentalist.

I wonder if fundamentalists are better at recognizing fundy parody than non-fundamentalists. And wouldn't that be an interesting experiment.

 

[Ladewig]

This is certainly possible.

This thread is such a train wreck that I don't mind derailing it a bit.

After thinking about the matter, I can see your side. There are a lot of Christians who do devote time and money to helping the poor, the sick, and the jailed. I realize that it is difficult to accurately determine their primary and secondary motivations.