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Truthers, Experts and Mental Illness

Orphia Nay

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Orphia Nay
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May 2, 2005
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I said here:

“The percentage of "official" people in the twoof movement is comparable to the percentage of officials with psychoses in general society”

and I was asked for a source.

I must admit that I just made rough estimates using my own general knowledge, but I decided to research and post the actual figures.


Dr. T.A.M. posted a link a while ago which was my starting point:

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publications/the-numbers-count-mental-disorders-in-america.shtml

“An estimated 26.2 percent of Americans ages 18 and older — about one in four adults — suffer from a diagnosable mental disorder in a given year.1 When applied to the 2004 U.S. Census residential population estimate for ages 18 and older, this figure translates to 57.7 million people.2 Even though mental disorders are widespread in the population, the main burden of illness is concentrated in a much smaller proportion — about 6 percent, or 1 in 17 — who suffer from a serious mental illness.1 In addition, mental disorders are the leading cause of disability in the U.S. and Canada for ages 15-44.3”

To summarise:
26% suffer mental illness in any given year;
6% suffer serious mental illness in any given year.


A recent Zogby poll showed that 4.6% of US are twoofers.

Population of the US: 303,307,078
http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html

4.6% of that = 13,952,125 truthers
Again, 6% of population are seriously mentally ill = 18,198,425


Please note: Correlation is not Causation – 6% with serious mental illness & 4.6% twoofers does not necessarily mean twoofers are seriously mentally ill. Twoofism is a crisis of logic, as any thread on the JREF CT forum will show (Arkan Wolfshade’s excellent formal logic posts in particular point out the errors twoofers make).

However, paranoia is a major symptom of many mental disorders (such as Schizophrenia and Drug-induced Psychosis), and it is something many twoofers suffer from – in fact, it seems to be a major element in the belief in a “9/11 inside job”. Could we be seeing a not-yet classified mental illness in Twoofism? Could Twoofism be a side-effect of mental illness? I’m not certain, but then, I’m not a Psychologist. Therefore I have investigated these figures.


Back to my original statement:

“The percentage of "official" people in the twoof movement is comparable to the percentage of officials with psychoses in general society.”

Mental illness does not differentiate between officials and non-officials.
http://www.nami.org/Content/Navigat...About_Mental_Illness/About_Mental_Illness.htm

“Mental illnesses can affect persons of any age, race, religion, or income. Mental illnesses are not the result of personal weakness, lack of character, or poor upbringing.”


My working definition of an “expert” is someone with a degree.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_United_States

“In 2005 … 27.7%, had earned a Bachelor's degree.”

http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/education/004214.html

“According to new tables released on the Internet titled Educational Attainment in the United States: 2004, […] 28 percent had attained at least a bachelor’s degree.”


28% with a degree = 84,925,982
6% with serious mental illness
6% of 84,925,982 = 5,095,559 = 1.68 % of the US population have a degree and a serious mental illness


The number of experts in the truth movement according to “Patriots Question 9/11”:
http://patriotsquestion911.com/

110+ Senior Military, Intelligence Service, Law Enforcement, and Government Officials
250+ Engineers and Architects
60+ Pilots and Aviation Professionals
160+ Professors Question 9/11
190+ 9/11 Survivors and Family Members
100+ Entertainment and Media Professionals

=870+
Although many of them do not even believe in a controlled demolition of the WTC buildings, I’ve rounded it up to 900.

900 out of 4.6% of the population (13,952,125 twoofers in the US):

0.0000645% of truthers are “experts” who have spoken out about Da Twoof.

(0.0000029672% of the US population are experts who have spoken out about Da Twoof – or are experiencing a crisis of logic.)



1.68 % of the US population have a degree and have had a serious mental illness in the past year.
0.0000645% of truthers are “experts” who have spoken out about Da Twoof.

Let’s look at my original statement again:

“The percentage of "official" people in the twoof movement is comparable to the percentage of officials with psychoses in general society.”

I conclude that while the figures are comparable, in that they are both very low, there are even less official people in the truth movement than there are college graduates in the US population with a serious mental illness.

I admit I can’t state a definitive correlation between mental illness and twoofism, unless a crisis of logic can be deemed a mental illness of sorts, and/or twoofism is a symptom of a mental illness, and/or twoofism is an as-yet uncategorised mental illness.

I’d appreciate any comments and/or criticism on these figures and on this analysis.
 
I have some criticism.

First of all, 4.6% believed in MIHOP, this was not the total percentage of truthers out there. I would consider LIHOP people truthers as well. But 4.6% was just the MIHOP people.

Second, if 6% of the entire population suffer from mental illness, I wouldn't consider the amount substantially higher among the truther populus. So the rough estimate would be, that 6% out of the 4.6% suffer from mental illness. That would mean, that 0,276% of US population would be both MIHOP and mentally ill.

Of course, that's just a rough estimation which is not statistically sound. As is not the estimate, that 6% out of 28% who have a degree suffer from mental illness. Both those percentages apply to the entire population, but can not accurately be sliced further into this kind of calculations. It could as well be, that only 1% out of the 28% with a degree suffer from mental illness, and nearly 10% out of the remaining 72% suffer from mental illness, thus still making the overall percentage for the entire population 6%.

Of course, it could also be that 10% or 20% of the 4.6% MIHOP people suffer from some mental illness. But I would suspect the number is not much higher among them. There are mentally ill among MIHOP, and there are not. I would use the 6% figure among them as well.

There are many MIHOP people, who I wouldn't call mentally ill. I don't think Dylan or Jason or Korey are mentally ill. Nor do I think most prominent truther figures are either. Some, of course, could be but only a minority. There are other reason for their MIHOPness, and trutherness as a whole. They have been discussed here before. Profit. Feeling of importance. Feeling of knowing something really big. Lack of critical thinking. Denial. Group thinking. Not being able to admit being wrong. Etc.

And one more comment.

Patriots Question 9/11 does not have 870+ members :cool: Many people are listed on multiple categories to boost the numbers.

I hope I made some sense. Finnish writing would have been much easier :)
 
ref said:
I have some criticism.

First of all, 4.6% believed in MIHOP, this was not the total percentage of truthers out there. I would consider LIHOP people truthers as well. But 4.6% was just the MIHOP people.

Second, if 6% of the entire population suffer from mental illness, I wouldn't consider the amount substantially higher among the truther populus. So the rough estimate would be, that 6% out of the 4.6% suffer from mental illness. That would mean, that 0,276% of US population would be both MIHOP and mentally ill.
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This isn't what Orphia Nay was calculating... she was making a comparison between the percentage of conspiracy theorists who are experts and the percentage of experts in society as a whole who have mental illness.

-Gumboot
 
gumboot said:
This isn't what Orphia Nay was calculating... she was making a comparison between the percentage of conspiracy theorists who are experts and the percentage of experts in society as a whole who have mental illness.

-Gumboot
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Yes that was one comparison. I must have misunderstood some, I don't know. Sorry folks :o

ETA: I get the point now. Read it too quickly the first time. Anyway, the 4.6% is for MIHOP, not for truthers as a whole ;)
 
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The 6% of "experts" is assuming that the 6% translates equally from the general populous, to those with a Bachelor's degree or higher (which it may or may not), so I think that this should be stated (that you are assuming the 6% is validly translated from one to the other).

TAM:)
 
Eric Cartman: Are you trying to say that one in four Americans is retarded?

Stan: Yes, one in four Americans is retarded. There's four of us, and you're retarded.
 
I thought it was Kyle who said that Cartman was retarded...

Anyway, don't you know, 9/11 is a conspiracy in a conspiracy. The US Government propagates conspiracy theories to keep the 25% of retardsAmericans happy.

(hey, does this forum support strike-throughs?}
 
[slight derail]So does this mean that, since I have a bachelor's degree in psychology, I could be considered an "expert" by the standards listed in the OP? Just curious. [/slight derail]
 
Heck, that's more than I expected; I was thinking "slightly knowledgable nitwit" myself. :D
 
Sabrina said:
Heck, that's more than I expected; I was thinking "slightly knowledgable nitwit" myself. :D
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This would also be appropiate :D

Psychology is one of those interesting subjects where 50% of what they teach you in college will be disproven later in your life.
 
It's an interesting question, but not answerable, IMO. Amateur armchair psychology isn't likely to produce accurate results, but I find it too difficult to resist. Are all sincere "no-planers" mentally ill? I tend to think that they must be, but I just don't know. Nor can I say that people like Steven Jones or DRG, who calmly make their case using good grammar and at least the structure of rational argument, are not mentally ill. I haven't got a clue. All I can say is that I think it's wise to avoid people like bofors and Christophera who tell us that they're suffering from mental illness.

Another unknown is the role that substance abuse plays in pushing people with anti-establishment proclivities into irrational and paranoid behavior. Pat from SLC pointed out this statement by Mike Metzger, the former head of Albany 9/11 Truth who has snapped out of it and renounced the truthers:
What also helped was quitting pot. I don't know if the same goes for you, but my personal observation is that most truthers are total potheads. A different breed than your typical pothead-- they can remain somewhat coherent and actually engage in activity if compelled enough. They think that they have a rare ability to work through their highs, and in some cases it's true. Unfortunately for them, they neglect to realize the effects that chronic pot-smoking has on reasoning, critical thinking, and outright paranoid delusions.

http://extruther.blogspot.com/2007/10/truthers-strike-back.html
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I'd like to add that "patriots question 9/11" is not a good source from which to learn who supports the conspiracy theories. Their inclusion policies are far more liberal than even the "Scholars" or the "Architects." To my knowledge the latter two groups don't include people who died on 9/11, and who never heard of the "truth movement," as members.
 
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Huntsman said:
Hey, cheer up! Look at the bright side!

Least it's not an Art History degree!
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Gag me... if I had gone for one of those, I think I would have shot myself.

In actuality, I originally was going for a nursing degree; when I missed out on that, psychology was the closest degree I could use my existing course credits with the easiest. I won't deny it's been useful on occasion, which is more than I can say for an Art History degree, but sometimes I wish I'd known about NDIC and how fun working in intelligence was BEFORE I went to college. Although, if I hadn't gotten the ROTC scholarship, I probably wouldn't have been exposed to the whole intel community anyways; oooh, paradox! FUN!
 
Gravy said:
All I can say is that I think it's wise to avoid people like bofors and Christophera who tell us that they're suffering from mental illness.
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I can see where you're coming from, but when someone - was it LashL? - said they weren't going to debate with bofors, he accused them of discriminating against him. Bofors is aware of his disorder, is taking steps to manage it, and has chosen nonetheless to engage in this debate; if we refuse to respond, are we discriminating against him? I would never argue that he's got something wrong because he may be delusional, because that would be a blatant ad hominem, but if he's displaying a clear lack of understanding of mechanics and thermodynamics I'm inclined to treat him as I would any other member of the truth movement who behaves the same.

Dave
 
Newtons Bit said:
This would also be appropiate :D

Psychology is one of those interesting subjects where 50% of what they teach you in college will be disproven later in your life.
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absolutely. I had two lecturers with opposing views who were constantly arguing with each other - both were considered experts (and were often on TV). How can that be?

There is so much wrong with the OP that I don´t know where to start. so I won´t.

Psychology shuld be treated as one of the more complicated sciences, as it is largely social chaos theory. (compared with, say, physics, which is predictable, and therefore easier to get to grips with). but it is not. Everyone and his dog thinks he´s a ****ing psychologist. I had a run in with someone in the "forum comunity" section about this, although he just did the "run" bit.
 
I just want to remind everyone that the OP is not commenting on the mental state of Conspiracy Theorists. In fact the OP states several times that comparisons between mental illness and the Truth Movement cannot be drawn from the statistics. Let's not attack a strawman folks.

-Gumboot
 
gumboot said:
I just want to remind everyone that the OP is not commenting on the mental state of Conspiracy Theorists. In fact the OP states several times that comparisons between mental illness and the Truth Movement cannot be drawn from the statistics. Let's not attack a strawman folks.

-Gumboot
Click to expand...


true, & sorry for sounding harsh. It is a very interesting post Orphia. But you clearly have too much time on your hands! Take up piano lessons.
 
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