• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Gag Order

Could the alleged "Gag Order" be the standard non disclosure agreement that anybody who gets a security clearence in the US has to sign, agreeing, when they leave the job,not to disclose classified material?
I think we can safely write off Szymanski as a nutcase. The Anti Catholic stuff proves that. He comes off like a follower of the Ian Paisley,
 
Slats Learned True Anti-Christ System Is The Papacy From Reading Bible While Building Replica NWO Coliseum In Kansas Corn Field
Click to expand...

Best headline since "Jap With Parachute Skis Down Everest On One Leg At 95mph - And Lives"
 
Cramer and Shaw are Westmoreland County employees, one an emergency services supervisor and the other a 911 dispatcher, not Federal or military personnel. Somehow the idea of 911 workers needing a security clearance or handling classified information seems a tad farfetched.

OTOH, during the period that the investigation of flight 93 was active, witnesses like Cramer and Shaw might well have been cautioned not to disclose their evidence to third parties. Their continued reluctance to talk to people like Terrorcell could be due to professional ethics- 911 workers, like cops, firefighters and emergency medical people, are exposed to a lot of information about their fellow citizens that, if not specifically protected by law, still ought not to be spread around, or due to simple distaste for dealing with obsessive loonies.

BTW, that "veil of secrecy" about the FDR seems to have developed some holes, since the NTSB report on the FDR data is now freely downloadable from the NTSB Web site: http://www.ntsb.gov/info/foia_fri.htm

ETA: regarding Symanski, I suppose that a little paranoiac religious hatefreakery and a bit of making @#$% up could be overlooked, but he's gone and ripped off the late, great Mike Royko, and that is stone cold unforgivable.
 
Last edited:
Calcas said:
I doubt that Glenn Cramer is subject to an FBI "gag order" but after a little googling it seems it *may* be possible after all without a courts approval.

"Three years ago, I received a national security letter (NSL) in my capacity as the president of a small Internet access and consulting business. The letter ordered me to provide sensitive information about one of my clients. There was no indication that a judge had reviewed or approved the letter, and it turned out that none had. The letter came with a gag provision that prohibited me from telling anyone, including my client, that the FBI was seeking this information."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/22/AR2007032201882.html

A National Security Letter (NSL) is a form of administrative subpoena used by the United States Federal Bureau of Investigation and reportedly by other U.S. Government Agencies including the Central Intelligence Agency and the Department of Defense. It is a demand letter issued to a particular entity or organization to turn over various record and data pertaining to individuals. They require no probable cause or judicial oversight. They also contain a gag order, preventing the recipient of the letter from disclosing that the letter was ever issued.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Letter

But, these National Security Letters are defined as being "issued to a particular entity or organization to turn over various record and data..." so it seems unlikely that they could simply be used to silence someone from talking about an event.

The problem is you can't say you have received one. So, even saying you're "gagged by the FBI" would probably be a violation.

Nice catch-22.

Edit: I just finished reading the rest of the Wiki article on NSL's. I had never heard of these things before. Very interesting.

However, I still call BS on the OP. IF they DO gag you, you can't even say so!
Click to expand...

There has been some application of these in libraries (or perhaps it's a variant form). They have, no surprise, caused a lot of angst. Librarians are heavily socialized to prefer open access to information, and the idea of not even being allowed to speak about not speaking strikes most as unacceptable. In fact, there was a recent case in Connecticut in which, I think, the library/ librarians were finally allowed to identify themselves. I don't want to overuse the idea of "Orwellian" elements but it's pretty damned obnoxious.
 
Brainster said:
The Troofers like to claim that Sybil Edmonds is the most-gagged person in history, to which I respond, Linda Lovelace.
Click to expand...
They cite the ACLU as calling Edmonds "the most gagged person in the history of the United States of America," but I've never seen a link to the original ACLU statement. It doesn't appear on the ACLU's page about her. Sounds like hyperbole in service of their court case.
 
Calcas said:
I doubt that Glenn Cramer is subject to an FBI "gag order" but after a little googling it seems it *may* be possible after all without a courts approval.
Click to expand...



I originally opined that only courts can issue gag orders. The information about National Security Letters is fascinating. It appears the FBI (and other agencies) have been issuing gag orders but those orders are probably unconstitutional.

In any case, the individuals mentioned wouldn't appear to have the type of information demanded by National Security Letters.
 
Drudgewire said:
Especially since Linda wasn't in the business very long. :teacher:
Click to expand...

Sadly, no. And Chuck Trainor was a blackguard.

It is not well known, but at the end of her life, Linda was actually considering making another adult feature. Seems she had gotten over her dose of fundamentalism that caused her to write Ordeal and no longer looked on all porn as evil.

Personally, with the abuse she suffered from Trainor and her subsequent substance abuse problems, I cannot fault her for seeking refuge in fundamentalism; When every question brings pain, it is a comfort to think you finally have all the answers.
 
BenBurch said:
It is not well known, but at the end of her life, Linda was actually considering making another adult feature. Seems she had gotten over her dose of fundamentalism that caused her to write Ordeal and no longer looked on all porn as evil.

Personally, with the abuse she suffered from Trainor and her subsequent substance abuse problems, I cannot fault her for seeking refuge in fundamentalism; When every question brings pain, it is a comfort to think you finally have all the answers.
Click to expand...
She actually did a layout for Oui magazine. Sadly it wasn't enough to get her to retract her wild claims of abuse that everyone in the business who knew her, male and female, have debunked thoroughly.

Now THAT'S a derail.
 
Drudgewire said:
She actually did a layout for Oui magazine. Sadly it wasn't enough to get her to retract her wild claims of abuse that everyone in the business who knew her, male and female, have debunked thoroughly.

Now THAT'S a derail.
Click to expand...

His abuse of her was largely psychological. But, at the time, it was consensual abuse; they appeared to have a Dom/sub relationship of some sort. No, the sorts of things she claimed happened on the set did not occur, but Trainor was disliked by MANY.

And we'd better start a new topic if we want to keep at this...
 
Cheers said:
Glenn Cramer is under a gag order. You have presented nothing to the contrary.

Stop poisoning the well.
Click to expand...

You're asking to prove a negative, what instead you should be doing is providing proof to support your theory.

Please provide PROOF of the gag order. I mean really, if there's a COURT ORDERED GAG ORDER that should be really easy to dig up and prove.

Or are you going to say that there's some sort of Super Secret Double Gag Order that only 2 guys at the FBI and Glenn Cramer know about, and that the fact that is soooo secret is proof enough that it exists?
 
Loss Leader said:
I originally opined that only courts can issue gag orders. The information about National Security Letters is fascinating. It appears the FBI (and other agencies) have been issuing gag orders but those orders are probably unconstitutional.

In any case, the individuals mentioned wouldn't appear to have the type of information demanded by National Security Letters.
Click to expand...

I also was of the opinion that only the courts could issue gag orders but the National Security Letters seem to prove otherwise.

I agree it is pretty interesting. It's also a little scary. The Wiki footnotes seem to suggest quite a bit of abuse in that regard.

I also agree that the individuals mentioned wouldn't appear to qualify for a NSL but even if they had received one (including a gag order) they couldn't say so.

In this case, it's a circular argument.

CT: "I've been gagged by the FBI but I can't talk about it"

Skeptic: "Then why did you mention it?"

CT: "Never mind."
 
The issue here isn't so much there being a gag order. It's plausible and reasonable. The problem is people making the claim with no verification that the claim is even correct. And then making the claim to imply something completely unrelated, a conspiracy. But the irony is that they take the testimony that gives them the impression of a conspiracy, but reject the testimony that proves there wasn't one. And from the same source.
 
Jonnyclueless said:
But the irony is that they take the testimony that gives them the impression of a conspiracy, but reject the testimony that proves there wasn't one. And from the same source.
Click to expand...

I know, and that's so out of character for them. :D
 
I could possibly understand Edmonds being under a "gag order" (read: standard non-disclosure agreement all federal employees (to my knowledge at any rate) sign and agree to and get in deep doo-doo for violating), but the guy who answered the 911 call? That I call BS on, I think.
 
Sabrina said:
I could possibly understand Edmonds being under a "gag order" (read: standard non-disclosure agreement all federal employees (to my knowledge at any rate) sign and agree to and get in deep doo-doo for violating), but the guy who answered the 911 call? That I call BS on, I think.
Click to expand...



That was the point I was trying to make.
I singed a non disclosure of classified information agreement when I joined the Army,and I am still liable to prosecution if I violated it (although I have a feeling most of the classifed codes I had theoritical access to are long gone)/
 
I signed one as well. Still valid to this day, even though I no longer work with the system I signed it for. I actually am more subject to it now, as I work in the intelligence community, than I was when I was a launcher platoon leader for PATRIOT. More sensitive stuff in this arena, you know.
 
Sabrina said:
but the guy who answered the 911 call? That I call BS on, I think.
Click to expand...


I would assume his dept. has an SOP that prevents him from talking to the media. The Sheriffs office my wife currently works for has one, the Sheriffs office she worked for prior to that. also had one.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom