Energy of an Asteroid?

sophia8

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Last night, me and Him were watching a prog on the asteroid/comet that apparently did for the dinosaurs. And Him then came up with an interesting question:
If a dino-killer type asteroid were today approaching Earth, and we had the technology to blast it into a huge cloud of equal-sized dust particles that continued in the same direction, what would happen when this cloud hit Earth? Would it have the same amount of energy, for instance? What would be the effect of this energy hitting Earth atmosphere?
 
Interesting question.

Here's the answer: momentum is conserved in dynamic interactions. Kinetic energy is not. KE is 1/2mv2; momentum is mv. You'll find that a multitude of small objects will have less KE than one large one, of the total mass of the small ones, going the same speed. That's because of the squared term. The total momentum will be the same, but keep in mind that the momentum of even a dino-killer is infinitesimal compared to that of the Earth.
 
Last night, me and Him were watching a prog on the asteroid/comet that apparently did for the dinosaurs. And Him then came up with an interesting question:
If a dino-killer type asteroid were today approaching Earth, and we had the technology to blast it into a huge cloud of equal-sized dust particles that continued in the same direction, what would happen when this cloud hit Earth? Would it have the same amount of energy, for instance? What would be the effect of this energy hitting Earth atmosphere?
If 100% of the dust particles hit Earth (which would be rather unlikely if the asteroid was "blasted" sufficiently far away from the Earth, but for the sake of the argument, let's say it happened nearby), then yes, it would have the same amount of kinetic energy. The main difference would then be that the particles would burn up in the atmosphere and that is where their energy would dissipate; presumably no ground material would be ejected into the atmosphere, although the ashes of the asteroid itself would represent mass injection of dozens of volcano eruptions. The resulting heat wave and shock wave could be quite devastating, but most certainly not as devastating as if the asteroid impacted the surface of the planet.

However, I'm not aware of any current technology capable of "blasting an asteroid into a huge cloud of equal-sized dust particles".
 
Interesting question.

Here's the answer: momentum is conserved in dynamic interactions. Kinetic energy is not. KE is 1/2mv2; momentum is mv. You'll find that a multitude of small objects will have less KE than one large one, of the total mass of the small ones, going the same speed. That's because of the squared term. The total momentum will be the same, but keep in mind that the momentum of even a dino-killer is infinitesimal compared to that of the Earth.

Schneibster, I think you have made a mistake (or I'm misreading you). KE = 1/2 m x v^2, not 1/2 (m x v )^2. The kinetic energy of 100 one-kg rocks at 10m/s is identical to the kinetic energy of one 100-kg boulder at 10 m/s.
 
I forget who did the calculations, but I think it's been shown that the entire mass of material entering the atmosphere as fine particles would heat the air to incandescence, rather than smacking us with a huge wallop. either way, the effects would be devestating.

Don't have time to look it up at the moment, though...
 
If 100% of the dust particles hit Earth (which would be rather unlikely if the asteroid was "blasted" sufficiently far away from the Earth, but for the sake of the argument, let's say it happened nearby), then yes, it would have the same amount of kinetic energy. The main difference would then be that the particles would burn up in the atmosphere and that is where their energy would dissipate; presumably no ground material would be ejected into the atmosphere, although the ashes of the asteroid itself would represent mass injection of dozens of volcano eruptions. The resulting heat wave and shock wave could be quite devastating, but most certainly not as devastating as if the asteroid impacted the surface of the planet.

However, I'm not aware of any current technology capable of "blasting an asteroid into a huge cloud of equal-sized dust particles".
That's what I told Him. But Him said it was purely a theoretical question; he was interested in what might happen if the solid mass of a theoretical asteroid got converted 100% into fine dust.
It's my gut feeling that the heat and shock wave of the dust hitting the atmosphere would be nearly as disastrous as an asteroid strike. But I don't know enough physics to confirm this.
 
One 8kg object going 2m/sec: 1/2mv2= 1 x 4 x 2 x 2 =16
Two 4kg objects going 2m/sec: 1/2mv2=2 x 2 x 2 x 2 = 16


What am I missing? Velocity is a vector, but the OP specifies no course change and implies no momentum change of the infalling object, just swapping a rock for a dust cloud.

Puzzled, is Soapy.
 
It's my gut feeling that the heat and shock wave of the dust hitting the atmosphere would be nearly as disastrous as an asteroid strike. But I don't know enough physics to confirm this.

Yes, I would agree with that, but the type of damage would be quite different. Equal amounts of energy are injected into the earth/atmosphere system either way, but with a single big impact there will be highly focussed earthquakes / tsunamis etc, where the dust would cause more evenly-spread chaos.

It's tempting to make an analogy with being shot with a rifle whilst either wearing, or not wearing, a bullet-proof vest. The energy absorbed is the same in both cases, but the damage done is quite different. It's a slightly misleading analogy though, because we instinctively feel that damage to the bullet-proof vest is somehow irrelevant, whereas damage to the atmosphere is very relevant :-)
 
Last night, me and Him were watching a prog on the asteroid/comet that apparently did for the dinosaurs. And Him then came up with an interesting question:
If a dino-killer type asteroid were today approaching Earth, and we had the technology to blast it into a huge cloud of equal-sized dust particles that continued in the same direction, what would happen when this cloud hit Earth? Would it have the same amount of energy, for instance? What would be the effect of this energy hitting Earth atmosphere?


part of it is that the impact occured at a very shallow angle which made a lot of rock and dust shoot into the air and some other cool effects.
 
Whups! You're all correct, I screwed it up. Now I gotta do it again. The reasoning behind my mistake was forgetting that it's in a collision that kinetic energy isn't conserved, and the collision hasn't happened yet.

OK, lemme see.

Simply because the dust would hit over a period of seconds or minutes, rather than all at once, I expect the effects would be less catastrophic. In addition, I would expect the dust would also be more spread out spatially. The change in space and time would make a great deal of difference; Crispy Duck's bullet-proof vest analogy is a good one. It's important to make the point that what happens to the atmosphere as the asteroid passes through it is far less important to the effects of a strike than what happens to the crust (and possibly ocean) when it hits.

The atmosphere is about 100 miles deep; at 40 miles a second (which is about medium speed for an asteroid) a whole asteroid will spend about two and a half seconds in the atmosphere. Within the first quarter second it will be heated to incandescence, and anyone looking at it will suffer permanent retinal damage. However, it won't matter much; if you're close enough to see the path through the atmosphere, you'll be dead within the minute no matter what else happens. Folks within something like a hundred miles will be vaporized by the heat of the strike, along with everything around them, a quarter to a half mile deep into the crust; rocks, soil, whatever, all vapor. A shockwave will move outward like a simultaneous level 10 on the Richter scale earthquake and thousand-mile-per-hour hurricane; this will destroy every living thing and every structure, and perhaps even mountains, for a thousand miles or more in every direction from the strike. Then the vapor cloud will deposit rock vapor for a lot farther than a thousand miles in every direction; any living thing touched by this vapor will be burned, and any breathing it will die. Huge gobbets of molten rock will splash outward from the impact, some of them flying out into space before crashing back down to cause wrack and ruin wherever they land, some of them half the world away. Some might even hit the Moon. The shockwave will circle the Earth multiple times, blowing down forests and all structures in its path, and its path will go everywhere. If the strike is at sea, a wall of water a thousand feet or more high will move outward at three to five hundred miles an hour, striking all the surrounding coasts and likely penetrating fifty to a hundred miles inland. Over a period of days or weeks, the crater will continue to blast heat and rock dust into the atmosphere, causing a "nuclear winter" that could last decades afterward.

Those are the effects of a major asteroid strike. Likely nothing larger than foraminifera will survive such an event in the same hemisphere with the strike. Note, however, that the Earth's crust is essentially uncompromised. The seas will recover, and if the strike was at sea, once the crater is cool enough, the sea will cover it. The continents will still exist, and still be substantially where they are now. The mantle will not be breached. The atmosphere will eventually clear, and be much as it is now. On the far side of the world, small fauna and flora will likely survive the effects of the long winter. Being quite persistent, and highly adaptable, it is even possible the human race will survive it, though in nothing like our current numbers. On the other hand, if nothing survives for us to eat, then our doom is sealed.

Many of these effects would be largely mitigated by the lack of a solid strike to land or sea. Yes, the dust would make a mess of the atmosphere; it might heat things up, or cloud the atmosphere. But the shockwaves, the gobbets of molten rock splashing down, the vaporized rock, the tsunami, the earthquakes- none of that would happen. I have no realistic idea what the effects on the atmosphere would be, but they would be considerably less than those of a solid strike. The megatons of rock vapor and vaporized water (assuming an ocean strike) would also be absent; the crust would likely be essentially unaffected. There might be a "nuclear winter" effect, but it would last months instead of decades; there simply isn't enough material in an asteroid to do more. I think overall that the effects would be strongly mitigated, and I'd be surprised if it were enough to kill us off. Billions might die, but billions more would likely survive.

That's my best guess.
 
Let's not forget the only weapons we know of currently capable of coming anywhere near destroying an asteroid would be nuclear weapons, and they would irradiate the remnants. A radioactive dust cloud entering the atmosphere is not much of an alternative to an asteroid strike.
 
Actually, it would be of very little moment, I think, unless the dust did very little damage indeed. People tend to have an overblown idea of how dangerous radiation is. There isn't that much material in a nuclear weapon, or even ten or twenty of them; Earth is a big place.
 
Actually, it would be of very little moment, I think, unless the dust did very little damage indeed. People tend to have an overblown idea of how dangerous radiation is. There isn't that much material in a nuclear weapon, or even ten or twenty of them; Earth is a big place.

Eh, don't believe everything you see on TV I guess :rolleyes:
 
Yeah, or in the movies either. If a billion people die of starvation because the climate changes due to deposition of dust in the atmosphere, I doubt we'll be worried about the extra five hundred cases of cancer. ;)
 
Over a period of days or weeks, the crater will continue to blast heat and rock dust into the atmosphere, causing a "nuclear winter" that could last decades afterwar

That seems so counterintuitive. Can you explain why it continues to blast rock dust into the atmosphere for so long?
 
Somebody might want to check the numbers here, but I worked out that the kinetic energy in a 10km dia. asteroid with a density of 3300kg/m3 is about 3.5x1023 joules or enough to raise the temperature of all 5x1018kg of earths atmosphere by about 70ºC.

This does not sound like a fun day.
 
I have no realistic idea what the effects on the atmosphere would be, but they would be considerably less than those of a solid strike. The megatons of rock vapor and vaporized water (assuming an ocean strike) would also be absent; the crust would likely be essentially unaffected. There might be a "nuclear winter" effect, but it would last months instead of decades; there simply isn't enough material in an asteroid to do more.
We can infer some of the expected effects. Anything that moves at asteroid collision speeds possesses enough kinetic energy to warm itself up to millions of degrees K (exact temperature would depend on exact speed and material composition). The asteroid dust would not be just vaporized, it would be ionized: it would form an intensely glowing superheated plasma cloud. While the surface of the cloud wouldn't quite reach the million-degree temperatures as it would radiate away large amounts of energy in the process of braking, the interior would, and the plasma cloud would expand much like the fireball of a nuclear explosion. The thermal radiation of the superbright plasma cloud will incinerate everything in sight, and most likely melt, vaporize and ionize a layer of the surface. The earthquakes and tsunamis would be much reduced compared to direct impact, but some would still occur as the shock wave of the expanding superheated plasma cloud hits the surface.

A "dino-killer type" asteroid possesses enough kinetic energy to bring all of Earth's air to boiling point of water. This is not what would happen - the heat will eventually radiate away into space as the fireball expands and only a part of it will end up heating up the Earth - but it illustrates that the liberated thermal energy would be monstrous and undoubtedly utterly devastating to anything near the impact site.

The deposited material shouldn't be taken too lightly. There wouldn't be megatons of rock vapor: there would be hundreds of gigatons of rock plasma. This will eventually descend upon the unfortunate inhabitants of the planet, in one form or another, but probably in a limited radius. As for the nuclear winter effect, the mass of a "dino-killer type" asteroid corresponds to about 20 times the mass ejected during the 1883 Krakatoa eruption. This would make the global effects very significant and noticeable, but likely not globally catastrophic.

I think overall that the effects would be strongly mitigated, and I'd be surprised if it were enough to kill us off. Billions might die, but billions more would likely survive.
Yes, that would appear to be a good summary. - To compare with the effects of a "dino-killer type" asteroid directly hitting the surface, I think I remember reading that no land animal larger than a cat survived the impact.
 
If the asteroid is considered to be a giant gas ball (say 160 km dia.) at the time it encounters the earths atmosphere, it's going to create a collision front of very hot, very dense gas traveling at about 1/2 the original asteroid speed but with twice the original mass as it has gathered mass from both the asteroid and the atmosphere. Half the original kinetic energy would go into heating this collision front. Since there is only 16 seconds from initial contact to impact with the surface, there is little time to radiate the heat.

I get a wave front traveling at 10 km/s, heated to 50 million degrees before accounting for radiation. The density of this collision front can be estimated by considering that it is being compressed by the gas on both sides hitting at 10 km/s.

What happens when this wave front hits the earth depends on it's density. If the density is comparable to that of rock, the wave will continue to propagate into the earth as a hot plasma creating a new higher density shock front at the new collision boundary. If it is closer to a gas it could bounce off transferring only part of the energy as a seismic wave through the earth. In either case, the surface at ground zero is going to be toast.
 
That seems so counterintuitive. Can you explain why it continues to blast rock dust into the atmosphere for so long?
Short answer is, because it's hot. What you've basically got is a huge hot spot, thousands of degrees in the middle, that's a hundred miles wide. Even the sea can't fill it; it hits the hot rock, bursts into superheated steam, and heads for the stratosphere. It's molten rock in the middle for quite a while, and the more volatile fractions are boiling off.
 

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