fundie atheist?

chulbert said:
I'm no legal eagle, and I would normally agree with you, but what's the difference between "may voluntarily" and "shall voluntarily"?
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"May observe a brief period of silence" was changed to "shall observe a brief period of silence". That's quite a big difference.
 
tsg said:
"May observe a brief period of silence" was changed to "shall observe a brief period of silence". That's quite a big difference.
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I agree, and if that's what had been originally stated I wouldn't have been confused. :)
 
KingMerv00 said:
Here is what Marquis cited in its entiety:

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Bolding mine.

Which "may" was changed to "shall"? I suspect the second because the first is just silly and the third doesn't make any sense.
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It was the second. Apologies for not making that clearer.

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As to whether the law serves any legitimate secular purpose, no. It does not really serve a legitimate religious one, either. It doesn't serve any real purpose I can see. It's an entirely silly statute that probably should not exist.

I just can't summon outrage for silliness.
 
ravdin said:
Exactly! I don't approve of this law, either. But I don't see how this is an issue that needs to be taken up with the federal government.
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This law is unconstitutional in the same way that driving 55.6mph in a 55mph zone is illegal.

I'm not sure how to feel.
 
tsg said:
Can someone can explain the legitimate secular purpose for having a mandatory moment of silence?
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This has always been my objection to the daily moment of silence. Since there isn't any clear-cut secular need for a moment of silence every day, it's simply a thinly-veiled attempt to earn a privilege for the religious who want school time to pray. I have no objection to the occasional moment of silence to mark something like a national tragedy.

Let everyone reflect silently at home, and that way everyone is treated fairly and no one gets special privileges.
 
Marquis de Carabas said:
Could not have said it better myself (else I would have).
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How about the reverse? Let's say I am a civil rights attorney and the 1st amendment rights of the David Duke are being violated. Do I search him out and ask to help? (Edit: Depends on the speech I suppose.)

"In God we trust" has no secular purpose but I am not going through the misery of a trial. The supposed reward just isn't worth my time.
 
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The most recent case I can find was from October 2000 where Virginia changed their law authorizing public schools to institute a moment of silence to one which required it. It is very similar to this case. US District Judge Claude M. Hilton found the law constitutional. It was appealed and the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the decision. The text of the decision is here: http://pacer.ca4.uscourts.gov/opinion.pdf/002132.P.pdf.

I'm not all the way through it, so I won't comment just yet.
 
KingMerv00 said:
"In God we trust" has no secular purpose but I am not going through the misery of a trial. The supposed reward just isn't worth my time.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember anyone suggesting you should do it.
 
I fail to see how this was pushed through the state government with no apparent reason for the moment of silence. It is obviously a thinly veiled attempt to get kids to pray. They should mandate that the moment of silence is to be done during the bus ride to school. At least then we can believe it was for bus driver sanity.
 
KingMerv00 said:
Better yet, can I save up my moments? If I decide to work that extra minute every school day, can I get out of class 3 hours early at the end of the year?

1 min x 180 school days = 3 hours
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I did four years of Virginia public schools (7th, 8th, 9th, and 12th grades) and we had the moment of silence. I spent that minute doing school work. However, despite my doing it quietly, some of my teachers would order me to stop. They felt everyone had to cease all activity, like Orthodox Jews on the Sabbath, in order to respect the moment that other people might be using to commune with their imaginary friends.

As always with the religious, they are not so much interested in freedom to do their own thing, they want you to do it too.
 
tsg said:
Can someone can explain the legitimate secular purpose for having a mandatory moment of silence?
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The Illinois legislature (fully controlled by Dems BTW) cleverly passed this law over the summer as cover for the fact that they have yet to produce a budget (many months overdue) nor properly fund the CTA (which will suffer massive service cuts and fare hikes Monday morning unless the legislators actually decide to do their job) nor pass badly needed ethics legislation (passed overwhelmingly by the House but bottled up in the Senate) which might actually eventually make them not the most corrupt legislative body in the entire United States.

It's all about priorities! Gotta love single-party rule here in the crown jewel of blue states. :mad:
 
Apology said:
This has always been my objection to the daily moment of silence. Since there isn't any clear-cut secular need for a moment of silence every day, it's simply a thinly-veiled attempt to earn a privilege for the religious who want school time to pray. I have no objection to the occasional moment of silence to mark something like a national tragedy.

Let everyone reflect silently at home, and that way everyone is treated fairly and no one gets special privileges.
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At home, on the bus, at recess, at lunch, during naptime, in between class in the hall, in the bathroom, anywhere. In groups or alone. All of that is possible and commonly practiced.

The difference here is that it's for the entire (school) community at the direction of school authorities. It's just like they do in church, where it's led by ordained religious authority rather than ordained school authority. These theocrats just won't stop trying to indoctrinate other people's children - ever.
 
It's tough to avoid being a fundamental atheist when there's only one fundament in atheism
 
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