Pear Cable CEO Calls James Randi's $1 Million Offer a Hoax

Jeff Wag
http://www.randi.org/joom/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=102&Itemid=27
That is absurd. Please set the record straight. Now the challenge is about a person, and not about the Pear Cables? Is that what the MDC is now?

"We claim this product is a fraud, but only certain people can accept the challenge to prove if the cables are a fraud?"

Thats crazy.

Didn't you read the whole thing? Pear reneged on providing cables to test. Are you going to provide your pair of Pears? Blake will probably complain about change of custody issues if someone else provides his cables. The offer is still valid if acceptable cables are found but Pear clearly just doesn't want their cables tested. They quit because they have no confidence in their ability to win.
 
I think you are seriously underestimating the competency of JREF and whatever audio experts they call on to help with this challenge. I've no doubt that, as part of the test protocol, they will insist on checking the cables before the actual test to make sure that what you describe can't happen.

Why would PEAR agree to that though? Their whole ad falls apart if they DONT say their cable is different than others.
 
Why would PEAR agree to that though? Their whole ad falls apart if they DONT say their cable is different than others.
The issue raised by Dragon that Pear or Fremer could slip in shoddy bad sounding cables to cheat has been addressed many times in the thread.
 
We’ve just received this – as we expected – from Adam Blake, the CEO of Pear Cables, who had already agreed to participate in the proposed JREF tests of his Pear Anjou speaker cables:
http://www.randi.org/joom/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=102&Itemid=27

What test? There was test agreed upon? Adam Blake was accepted as a claimant?? What??? Where was this? I keep reading stuff without links to the sources. There is/was an agreement between JREF and Adam Blake? Where was that announced? What is the test protocol? Can somebody please provide some documentation. I feel like I missed a bunch of stuff.

The article said this presumably ends the Fremer challenge because Pear won't loan the cables and it is unlikey that Fremer will provide them himself.

WTF? Where did this happen? When?

.However, it says that Fremer could provide them himself or use the $42,000 Transparanet cables.

What says that? Where is this information? Damn, I don't read for a day and I missed all kinds of stuff.

It even goes on to say that JREF will look at other applicants that have shown interest in this challenge.

What applicants? Is this published somewhere? Am I missing out on some threads somewhere?

Didn't you read the whole thing?

I read what Jeff Wagg wrote, at the link I used for the quotes. Where is all the rest of this information coming from?

Hell yeah I will buy a set of Cables.. Bring it on! The thing is, who gets the money?

Their whole ad falls apart if they DONT say their cable is different than others.

What? The challenge is that the cables don't make any difference. Of course the advertising fails if there is no difference. But it isn't up to them, anybody can test the cables. It is speaker cables, not a person being tested.
 
Adam Blake said:
While we had initially planned to loan cable to Mr. Fremer for the test, upon consideration of your communications with him, as well as our doubts about the legitimacy of your misleading challenge (including the fact that you now personally claim that almost anyone can tell the difference between Monster cables and zip-cord), we do not wish to be involved. We do not expect this to hamper Mr. Fremer's efforts in any way.

Why, oh why, is it always about the "legitimacy" of the challenge? Why? I don’t think that the legitimacy of any challenge, contest, sweepstakes, lottery, etc. has ever been so well established as the legitimacy of the JREF challenge.

Even if Blake is skeptical of the legitimacy of the challenge, just lend the cables. What is the harm in lending cables to an audiophile to test his hearing capabilities? Unless Blake is afraid Pear’s cables don’t stand up to the challenge. Or if Blake is afraid Mr. Fremer won’t test the cables correctly, then by all means Blake should take the challenge himself. Of course I find it hard to believe Pear doesn’t trust the hearing capabilities of a known audiophile putting his own reputation on the line when Pear’s own website says that “anyone” can hear the differences in the cables.

And why would the fact that Randi allegedly admits that almost anyone can tell the difference between Monster cables and zip-cord be a reason for Blake to back down from a challenge between Monster cables and Pear cables? Perhaps it is because he knows that there is no difference between $80 Monster cables and $7250 Pear cables?

So when Randi even implies that there may be a difference between small gauge ten cent zip-cord and $80 Monster cables (or even any 14 gauge cables), then Blake suddenly feels that Randi’s claim that there is no difference between Monster cables and Pear cables is not legitimate. What is the reasoning there?

Randi has challenged that Pear’s statement that anyone can hear the difference between their cables and $80 Monster cables is false. Is Blake backing down now and saying that you can only hear a difference with the $7250 Pear cables when compared to 10 cent zip cord? Because it sure sounds like that is what he is saying.
 
WTF? Where did this happen? When?

It is all in the link you provided in your post. So I think you are just being silly. But to make sure you read the same thing, here is the article quoted.

JREF said:
We’ve just received this – as we expected – from Adam Blake, the CEO of Pear Cables, who had already agreed to participate in the proposed JREF tests of his Pear Anjou speaker cables:

At the request of Michael Fremer, with whom we have been communicating regarding his challenging of your assertions regarding high-end audio cables, we would like to inform you directly of Pear Cable's decision to not participate in your claimed challenge. While we support Mr. Fremer's efforts, and believe firmly in the performance of our products, we prefer that he simply use his own reference cables in his proposed test.

Please note the references here to “your assertions regarding high-end audio cables,” and our “claimed challenge.” These are the usual sort of juvenile ploys used by those who are well aware of their own presumptive and overblown claims. Let me correct Mr. Blake:

First: the JREF has made no “assertions” whatsoever in this matter; those were made by Blake and by Fremer, and we only offered to pay them one million dollars if they were able to support their fatuous assertions.

Second: the JREF prize offer is in no respect a “claimed challenge”; it is 100% genuine, fully outlined in print and widely advertised, and it constitutes a binding legal obligation on our part to pay the prize – one million US dollars – upon the success of any applicant. The funds are held by the investment firm of Goldman Sachs in an account specifically named, “The James Randi Educational Foundation Prize Account,” which at this moment of writing amounts to US$1,059,168.47, and is growing every day, though the prize only constitutes the first one million dollars. This is not – in any respect, a “claimed challenge.” It is very real and substantial.

Third – and most interesting – this retreat by Adam Blake effectively closes the current challenge, much to the relief of both Fremer and Blake, of course. Actually, I must admit that this was a rather clever way of squirming out of the huge dilemma in which these two blowhards found themselves. To repeat our proposition for the test, which I’ve already stated:

We are asking you [Michael Fremer] – and/or Adam Blake – to significantly differentiate between a set of $7,250 Pear Anjou cables and a good set of Monster cables, or between a set of $43,000 Transparent Opus MM SC cables and the same Monster cables – your choice of these two possible scenarios… This would have to be done to a statistically significant degree, that degree to be decided.

Returning to the rest of the cop-out just received from Adam Blake:

While we had initially planned to loan cable to Mr. Fremer for the test, upon consideration of your communications with him, as well as our doubts about the legitimacy of your misleading challenge (including the fact that you now personally claim that almost anyone can tell the difference between Monster cables and zip-cord), we do not wish to be involved. We do not expect this to hamper Mr. Fremer's efforts in any way.

Well, Adam, since you won’t provide a set of your marvelous cables for the test, and I’m sure that Fremer isn’t going to provide them, that closes the matter. Now, Fremer may decide to invest $7,250 in a set of these cables. Or, the Transparent people may send in a set of $42,000 wires for the test, but I’m damn sure not going to supply them…!

We’re now looking at the list of others who have expressed interest in taking the challenge in regard to regular-vs-ridiculous speaker cables. The requests are in chronological order, and the next person up for discussion will be announced.

As we so often say, stay tuned!
There are no claimants or applicants as of yet, as no one has apparently yet filed an application. I perhaps used the word "applicants" incorrectly and meant "others who have expressed interest in taking the challenge". I assumed those that read the articles would know what I meant. Just as I would expect they know what I mean when I say that Fremer accepted the challenge (although he apparently never actually submitted an application, much like Sylvia Brown).

I was attempting to summarize the situation and not play jackass semantical games. I will also assume you misunderstood the context of the posts and were not being a semantical jackass yourself. I apologize for any misunderstanding.
 
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What? The challenge is that the cables don't make any difference. Of course the advertising fails if there is no difference. But it isn't up to them, anybody can test the cables. It is speaker cables, not a person being tested.

Yes, but the challenge is directed to a person who claims that they can tell the difference.... a difference that should be undetectable by human standards. It is not solely about the cables.

Randi has directed the challenge at those who claim to be able to hear differences in cables when that difference should be undetectable to human ears.
 
My prediction: There will be no test. Mr. Fermer will backup out of it using some excuse. I'll put $50 on it.
Who's raising the bet?
Regards,
Yair
too bad no one put a bet against me.
icon9.gif


Regards,
Yair
 
Why would PEAR agree to that though? Their whole ad falls apart if they DONT say their cable is different than others.
I'm saying that it would be easy to check for the sort of gross effects that would make the expensive cable worse than the regular ones (and therefore eliminating the sort of cheat pmurray described). How could PEAR object to that?
 
Just in case some of you didn't see the latest:

Pear Cables CEO said:
At the request of Michael Fremer, with whom we have been communicating regarding his challenging of your assertions regarding high-end audio cables, we would like to inform you directly of Pear Cable's decision to not participate in your claimed challenge. While we support Mr. Fremer's efforts, and believe firmly in the performance of our products, we prefer that he simply use his own reference cables in his proposed test.
 
Randi has directed the challenge at those who claim to be able to hear differences in cables when that difference should be undetectable to human ears.

Aha, now I get it. It isn't that the claims about frequency response, the sound, the quality of the experience, that someone who spends way too much on their equipment gets more enjoyment from expensive cables, it is about the impossibility of any expensive cable actually having an audible difference. Thanks for clearing that up.

This takes us back into either the science of audio technology, or perhaps the power of suggestions and psychology.

I can see why both sides are having problems here.
 
Aha, now I get it. It isn't that the claims about frequency response, the sound, the quality of the experience, that someone who spends way too much on their equipment gets more enjoyment from expensive cables, it is about the impossibility of any expensive cable actually having an audible difference. Thanks for clearing that up.

This takes us back into either the science of audio technology, or perhaps the power of suggestions and psychology.

I can see why both sides are having problems here.
One side's problems can be solved with a simple double-blind test. This is why the other side will have noting to do with it.
 
I can see why both sides are having problems here.
No, only one side has a problem, the ones who will not take the DBT. The ones who say difference is a plain as the nose on your face until there is a DBT.

Paul

:) :) :)
 
Arrgh, eleven pages and people still suggest it's just a simple double-blind test. Audible differences are no biggie. The point is, the test should guard against cables playing equalizer, because that's not their job. Achieving this with only a listening test is not a trivial matter. And up-front selection of cables based on electrical measurements is unlikely to be accepted as part of a listening test, which the woo audiophiles always insist on for obvious reasons.
 
But everything I know about Fremer tells me that he's right man for the job. He doesn't do astrology, ESP, or the paranormal; he's as atheist and skeptic as your average forum-goer here.


For anyone here who's followed audiophile woo for a few years or more (howdy Chu, glad to see you here) , having Fremer be the test subject is an EXCELLENT coup. He's one of the biggest audiophile blowhards out there, as well as being a nasty little piece of work in 'debates' (as his letter to Randi demonstrates). Because of his attack-dog style, he's an even better pick than John Atkinson (his urbane British editor at Stereophile), and both are better than the Pear Audio guy, who's a nonentity in audiophile-land.As long as precautions are taken so he doesn't game the test (by picking a cable that measures poorly enough to be nontransparent -- and yes, some of these do exist, and they tend to be marketed as 'high end' -- or grossly mismatching gauge/length of the two cables) he's quite likely to fail, because there really is no technical basis for him not to. In NO case I'm aware of, has anyone ever passed a difference test for audio cables, when there WASN'T a relatively gross measurable difference in the cable's frequency response.



Music is his life and he has invested literally hundreds of thousands of dollars into his sound system. He certainly thinks that audio cables make a difference in audio quality. I can't say I'm anything of an audiophile myself, but I'll believe it if he says it. If you ever had the chance to hear his system, I think you'd agree.

Your logic is flawed. As is Fremer's, often. What you heard at Fremer's when he played a recording, as at anyone's, was overwhelmingly the mastering of the recording , plus the sound that his loudspeakers and room imparted to the recording; plus, in Fremer's case, the sound that LP technology *adds* to a recording. The sonic 'contribution' of whatever cables he used was likely to be tiny if not nonexistant, and, Randi's belief notwithstanding, switching out amps would also likely have little or no sonic effect, as long as playback levels were kept below clipping.
 
Arrgh, eleven pages and people still suggest it's just a simple double-blind test. Audible differences are no biggie. The point is, the test should guard against cables playing equalizer, because that's not their job. Achieving this with only a listening test is not a trivial matter. And up-front selection of cables based on electrical measurements is unlikely to be accepted as part of a listening test, which the woo audiophiles always insist on for obvious reasons.

Well, to its credit, even Stereophile routinely does listening 'tests' (sighted reviews) AND bench tests of products under review. Why should Fremer or other audiophiles object if JREF insists on an objective measure of performance to pre-identify any speaker cables which can be *expected*, for utterly uncontroversial reasons, to 'sound different' from a normal run of , say, Home Depot 14-gauge speaker wire...usually by rolling off the highest frequencies (in other words, acting as a crude equalizer)
 

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