Now Aetna Pushes Alternative Medicine

earloke

New Blood
Joined
Sep 12, 2007
Messages
13
I opened up my latest issue of Dowfriends a publication directed at retired Dow employees. Aetna is the major source for their insurance directives and right there in black and white "Be sure to ask your family psysican about alternative methods of medicine. Does anyone have a handle on this ? I would expect a corporation of this magnitude and the source of high technology and a major insurance corporation to be reaching for higher goals in the general population . Or am I missing something ,is there some money to be sheltered here. I know that acupuncture can be considered mostly a placebo effect and herbs dont demonstrate a constant measurable data so ?




Wash a tree ---confuse your dog
 
I don't think you should jumpt to the conclusion that "alternative" means bogus or unscientific. I have been directed to exercise, physical therapy, and other procedures which are covered by health insurance, and insurers are always happy to find more inexpensive alternatives to medicines, drugs, and doctor visits.
 
I totally agree. I had a toboggan accident years ago and the medical doctor could only talk about spinal surgery. I asked friends for a reference for a 'good' chiropractor, and was functional after three treatments. My back is now normal, and I haven't needed a treatment, mainstream medicine of chiropractic, for the sacral dislocation in years.

But over the years, if I hurt my back (I'm addicted to outdoor adventures) I would see a chiropractor.
 
I totally agree. I had a toboggan accident years ago and the medical doctor could only talk about spinal surgery. I asked friends for a reference for a 'good' chiropractor, and was functional after three treatments. My back is now normal, and I haven't needed a treatment, mainstream medicine of chiropractic, for the sacral dislocation in years.

But over the years, if I hurt my back (I'm addicted to outdoor adventures) I would see a chiropractor.
Love those testimonials for chiroquackters.
 
I don't think you should jumpt to the conclusion that "alternative" means bogus or unscientific. I have been directed to exercise, physical therapy, and other procedures which are covered by health insurance, and insurers are always happy to find more inexpensive alternatives to medicines, drugs, and doctor visits.


I'm pretty sure that the phrase "alternative medicine" is limited to any treatment that isn't evidence-based. Physical therapy doesn't fall within that category, but accupuncture and homeopathy does.

I can't help but wonder if the insurance companies think that they will save money in the long run if they cover alternative medicine? Higher death rates?

I find it especially annoying because most insurance companies in most states are very resistant to covering the costs of hearing aids (for financial reasons) and there is plenty of proof that hearing aids work and also help prevent other problems such as misdiagnosing Alzheimer's in senior citizens and depression.
 
I can't help but wonder if the insurance companies think that they will save money in the long run if they cover alternative medicine? Higher death rates?

Even if the death rates are the same, it must be cheaper to pay for a sugar pill than real medicine - none of that silly research & development stuff or testing costs to recover.
 
I'm pretty sure that the phrase "alternative medicine" is limited to any treatment that isn't evidence-based.


But they don't use that phrase. It's "alternative methods of medicine" in your quote.

You may well be right and they are suggesting going woo. However, the concept of alternative approaches to medical conditions is perfectly legitimate. At its most basic, aspirin and paracetamol are alternative approaches to a headache.

It's conceivable that they are merely advising people to be sure they know all the possible methods of managing their condition rather than just going with their own physician's personal favourite. Nevertheless, I see your point and I suspect you may be right. It's just not entirely clear.

Rolfe.
 
Jaggy Bunnet said:
Even if the death rates are the same, it must be cheaper to pay for a sugar pill than real medicine - none of that silly research & development stuff or testing costs to recover.

Good point.

But they don't use that phrase. It's "alternative methods of medicine" in your quote.

Ah, I missed that.

You may well be right and they are suggesting going woo. However, the concept of alternative approaches to medical conditions is perfectly legitimate. At its most basic, aspirin and paracetamol are alternative approaches to a headache.

It's conceivable that they are merely advising people to be sure they know all the possible methods of managing their condition rather than just going with their own physician's personal favourite. Nevertheless, I see your point and I suspect you may be right.

You know, I normally never say this, but .. I hope I'm wrong! :D
 
OP-- Here : Really appreciate Your comments folks ,this just kind of had me in a bit of a quandry and as always I am distrustful of insurance companies. I have had a long history of dealing with them and I can assure all dealings were bad. Of course their honest is absolutely impeccable. I am totally prepared to defend them and say that they would never lie to anyone unless the opportunity presented itself. I think that can be explained as x=x .
As for physical therapy, as far as my experience is concerned my two episodes have been total disasters. The first lasted six months of twice weekly treatments for what I was told was a frozen shoulder (?) 45 minutes of level 10 pain with no results . I stopped the treatments myself. I could no longer deal with the pain. Two months later the pain was gone completely.
Problem # two was brought on by a misdiagnosed disc problem in my neck by a neurologists. Therapy treatment with antiquated equipment kept me off of work for nearly a month and a trip to a pain specialist who came close to killing me with medication that I told him I was allergic to twice. He still prescribed it under a name unknown to me. $18,000 later we now have a malpractice suit in progress .Great luck with with doctors huh ? I could write 25 pages on esteemed medical professionals that need to be plumbers, basket weavers or less. Anyhow thanks for your comments.

My best friend is a dog named Bo and he thinks Im a tree. He keeps watering my foot. Can it be that dogs dont use the same mental processes as humans?
 
Earloke, arguing that a few bad doctors invalidate the practice of modern medicine is fairly silly, don't you think? There are bogus medical practitioners in every field of medicine, alternative or otherwise.

Conversely, we here argue that homeopathy is a totally bogus and even dangerous "medical" practice. But we don't argue that all homeopaths are therefore bad people. Many of them have a genuine desire to be medical practitioners and help people, and some may even have the ability to achieve that legitimately. Only a few are actually bogus people and/or companies. It's a difference sometimes forgotten here as well.
 
I only wish I could be as oblivious to the actual facts as you Zep.You must be a fairly young med student who hasnt seen the real world yet .
I have spent 64 years dealing with incompetent medical practicioners ,and If you want proof I can drag you down a long hard road. Let me quote a few. Keeping in mind that nothing is too expensive as far as a patient is concerned as long as the dr gets his lions share .
I was treated for 13 months for a back injury that appeared from nowhere, final diagnosis tuberculosis.
Total loss of vision in left eye misdiagnosed by medical eye professonal .Final diagnosis ,macular degeneration (his comment ,sorry about that shoud have caught it, maybe next time).
Two year treatment for chronic daily migraine zero results. The doctor was throughly convinced that migraines were a mental disorder and kept me so screwed up on drugs I could not function enough to get away from him until my wife pulled his money plug.
Same quack coerced me into psycotherapy for 9 months until the woman finaly admitted that she was only doing it part time to pay for her pregnancy when I caught her in some stupid mistakes . ( my minor was psycology )
One competent doctor . One visit. 25 years of daily migraines gone completely . Hmmm. Good experience . But still a pompus smartass.
Neck strain diagnosed by 3 different neurologist as spondosis ,authuritus, disc deteoration and and bone mass loss . Suprizingly cured by myself with exercize .
Prescribed medication by a pain specialist that was told 4 times that I was extremely allergic to it and also listed boldly on my medical records (he also was kind enough to diagnos me as being bitter ,having depression ,having a long history of psycoanlysis and being being bipolar. He completed this miraculious diagnosis without evidence in less than 8 minutes and the only thing I said to him is that I was allergic to any form of codiene.
This man was a master of intelligence ,never listened to any thing I said ,must have not read my medical chart ,denied any wrong, and ran from the office when I returned barely able to walk or breathe (called dumping ) . Final result :Complete idle digestive tract ,dehydration ,functional loss of digestive system for 2 months,with continuing problems for 7 months to present. The toilet and my lawyer are my constant companions .

You would say that Im probably a bit bitter but Im not , just convinced and have absolutely no trust in the medical profession or any one assoated with it.This just a small list of my negative experiences with these over paid, egotistical, low life idiots, if there are any good ones it is trained out of them purposely . Conditions are perfect they get to police themselves. Does anyone want to talk about upcoding ? Sorry if I hurt anyones feelings !!
 
You may be right Zep and I commend those people that enter the medical profession with great ideas of making the world a better place . BUT. Politicians have shown us what greed can do to common people with high ideals .
Do you really think I would base my opinion on two episodes you must not have read my post it said 25 pages and I could probably write more.
Since Im so uneducated and unable to make reasonable cognative decisions ,I guess we will have to blame it on the primitive backwoods and the poor water quality in this isolated area where I live . I must be exceedingly retarded . No wait . I was once diagnosed as bitter ,depressed ,having a past history of psycotherapy and Bipolarism all in the grand sum of 7 minutes, without evidence by a anathesiologist, Miracles never cease . Good enough.
Zep have a nice practice.
Too much off topic .End of thread.
 
Let me tell you a little story from Denmark. For years, in this country, treatment with extracts from the yew tree were considered 'alternative ways of treating cancer'. It does not sound as woo as it sounds, though. I think the medical term is 'sterotaxic treatment'. Basically, when you get cancer, you'd go to the doctor. The beam canon would then be directed towards the sick cancer growth and you'd get a shot of this yew tree extraction. (or something like that ;) ).

Danish MD's refused to let their patients get this treatment abroad because they claimed it to be alternative and not validated. Well, it was validated etc. - just not in Denmark.
Luckily, this has changed now :)

The point is this: Alternative methods of medicine may refer to new experimental (legal) drug tecniques...

Edit:

As for the comment on herbs I will say this. A Danish study (doubleblind etc) has just found that
a herb called hib* from the plant dogrose alleviates pain in rheumatic and arthritic patients.
*(it is those red berries that itch a lot whenever you put them down someones back, at least if you open them up and just use the seeds).
 
Last edited:
It's conceivable that they are merely advising people to be sure they know all the possible methods of managing their condition rather than just going with their own physician's personal favourite. Nevertheless, I see your point and I suspect you may be right. It's just not entirely clear.

I can't speak for Aetna, but United Healthcare explicitly covers "alternative" non-evidence-based medicine, including Chiropractic and Naturopathic treatment.
 
I only wish I could be as oblivious to the actual facts as you Zep.You must be a fairly young med student who hasnt seen the real world yet .
Wow, talk about foot-in-mouth disease.
You would say that Im probably a bit bitter but Im not , just convinced and have absolutely no trust in the medical profession or any one assoated with it.This just a small list of my negative experiences with these over paid, egotistical, low life idiots, if there are any good ones it is trained out of them purposely . Conditions are perfect they get to police themselves. Does anyone want to talk about upcoding ? Sorry if I hurt anyones feelings !!

Well, since you consider personal anecdotes to be the equivalent of extensive empirical study, let me lay this on you:

When I was growing up, my parents were staunch adherents of "alternative" medicine, particularly nutritionism/food science (note, this does not refer to nutrition, but to the alleged medicinal properties of certain foods, and planning diets based on supposed characteristics of certain foods), holisitc medicine, chiropractic, and herbalism. They were strongly suspicious of doctors, for both personal and religious reasons, and consequently would only go to a doctor for mandatory treatments (eg. vaccinations), or in the direst of emergencies. And they typically chose doctors who were very much into "alternative" medicine themselves.

I grew up with many congenital conditions, and several diseases and injuries, which were not properly treated; and which have caused me serious problems my entire life. Most notably hypoglycemia, which I didn't learn how to properly treat until well into my adulthood (inherited from my father, who never properly treated his, and thus was prone to severe mood swings and violent rages); several neck, back, and joint injuries which were treated only through Chiropractic and still cause me pain that would have been seriously lessened, if not eliminated entirely, had they received proper medical treatment; as well as a number of other issues, some of which have yet to be properly diagnosed, which severely affect my day-to-day functioning.

Both of my parents still suffer from health issues which they have consistently refused to get treatment for, and in some cases even deny the existence of (despite the fact that they're obvious to any observer); since they've been "cured" with whatever "alternative" medicine fad they've glommed onto most recently.

At one point in my life, I had begun to study "alternative" medicine, and had considered becoming a naturopath; but learning more about the practice, and it's inconsistencies and complete lack of adequate evidence for its efficacy, decided me against the practice.

I understand that you've had some unpleasant experiences with doctors. I have as well. I've dealt with my fair share of arrogant quacks and incompetents. But incompetence is to be found in any human endeavour, medicine is not free of it, any more than any other profession. On top of that, medicine is not a precise science. The human animal is simply too variable, and a lot of it is still inadequately understood. That is why one gets multiple opinions, and evaluates doctors instead of simply blindly accepting what they're told. And any good doctor will accept and work with this.

But that sort of blind, unquestioning acceptance is what naturopaths want, they're very fond of both obscure technical jargon, and gross oversimplification, to obfuscate what it is that they're really doing. I've seen more than a few tell outright lies about what their practices; and observed no end of incompetence even in their own fields (eg. several herbalists contradicting each other with regards to the theraputic uses of various plant-based treatments). That is why they're so resistant to empirical scientific evaluation of their treatments, or will state outright that such evaluation is not even possible (which translates their practice into into the realm of magic, not medicine).
 
Even if the death rates are the same, it must be cheaper to pay for a sugar pill than real medicine - none of that silly research & development stuff or testing costs to recover.

That, plus the fact that a terminal cancer patient costs a lot less to cover if he's paying for Chakra alignment and homeopathic concoctions than if he's paying for standard terminal care.
 
I don't think it's valid to say that alterenative medicine is cheaper; it is right now, and in a general sense. But I'm sure that if it becomes recognized by all of the insurers, it will go the way of prescribed drugs, and price-fixing among suppliers will level the playing field.
 
I don't think it's valid to say that alterenative medicine is cheaper; it is right now, and in a general sense. But I'm sure that if it becomes recognized by all of the insurers, it will go the way of prescribed drugs, and price-fixing among suppliers will level the playing field.

And yet, despite the fact that it's generally cheaper, it's still a multi-billion-dollar industry. A fact that is generally lost on those who rail against the "profiteering" pharmaceutical industry.
 

Back
Top Bottom