• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Former conspiracy believer here

The flight77 link works for me...

http://www.flight77.info/
how odd, it give a homo erotic photo when linked here, but when I do a google search for it, and go to it, it is fine.

here try this
http://www.flight77.info


Do a google search for "flight77.info", and click on the link...works fine.

TAM:)
 
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copy the actual URL from the above link and place it in the address bar.

TAM:)
 
The FBI agent's name is Jacqueline Maguire. On the bottom of the flight77.info site is a link to all of his pages/info. Click on that link, and the page it brings you to, a little ways down are the links to the "Maguire" statement. You will find what I am talking about there.

TAM:)
 
On the second last page of her statement is something else interesting, as follows:

I also conducted a search of the FBI's Electronic Case File System, Investigative Case Management system, and other evidence databases for any videotapes in the possession of the FBI from the Sheraton National Hotel in Arlington, Virginia. I did not locate any such videotape.

Bolding mine for emphasis.

http://www.flight77.info/dec1/mcquredec06.jpg

Page 7, further adds...

I did locate one videotape taken from a closed circuit television at a Doubletree Hotel in Arlington, Virginia. I determined, however, that the videotape did not show the impact of Flight 77 into the Pentagon on September 11, 2001.

http://www.flight77.info/dec1/mcquredec07.jpg


TAM:)
 
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of further interest, is that their subsequent request for all 85 videos was denied, I believe, as a result of them being used in an ongoing criminal case. However, that case was that of Moussoaui, which as since ended, so if they were to file another FOIA now, would they not be entitled, or am I reading this wrong??? anyone??

TAM:)
 
The flight77 link works for me...

http://www.flight77.info/
how odd, it give a homo erotic photo when linked here, but when I do a google search for it, and go to it, it is fine.

It's a twoofer site, right? Looks like they're checking the HTTP Referer header for randi.org to show us this photo. Childish, but what do you expect.
 
I kind of figured something like that, which does not say a whole lot for the maturity of the site owner/operator.

You are right, kind of, unfortunately, to be expected.

TAM:)
 
how odd, it give a homo erotic photo when linked here, but when I do a google search for it, and go to it, it is fine.


Maybe the webmaster at Flight77.info has some issue with these forums and intentionally mishandles click-throughs from here.

ETA: I see others were quicker to their keyboards. Sigh.
 
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That must mean they are full of junk. They really did stick in the code just for JREF; dumb;
<script LANGUAGE="JavaScript">
<!-- Begin
var refer = new Array();
refer['forums.randi.org'] = "http://www.subvulture.com/archive/iupload_gay.jpg";
That is self critiquing.

WTF, it's a silly JavaScript? I didn't even check the HTML source because I didn't expect them to be that lame. Well, that means it also works fine when JavaScript is disabled in the browser.
 
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Maybe the webmaster at Flight77.info has some issue with these forums and intentionally mishandles click-throughs from here.

ETA: I see others were quicker to their keyboards. Sigh.
Just JREF
<script LANGUAGE="JavaScript">
<!-- Begin
var refer = new Array();
refer['forums.randi.org'] = "http://www.subvulture.com/archive/iupload_gay.jpg";
for (var i in refer) {
if (document.referrer.indexOf(i) != -1) window.location.replace(refer);
}
// End -->
</script>
Sad. What a waste of time, the whole web site.
 
That must mean they are full of junk. They really did stick in the code just for JREF; dumb;
<script LANGUAGE="JavaScript">
<!-- Begin
var refer = new Array();
refer['forums.randi.org'] = "http://www.subvulture.com/archive/iupload_gay.jpg";
That is self critiquing.


Hah. That explains why I wasn't "graced" with such a "pleasant" image. I have JavaScript disabled by default.
 
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As for airspace, the WTC north tower had already been hit. Having a jumbo jet off course and approaching DC at a high rate of speed while technically startling restricted airspace doesn’t seem to speak to a "wait and see" posture on the part of the military or senior administration officials.


To be honest the above comment doesn't make any sense, but I'd like to clear up a few things. First a minor nitpick, a 757 is not a jumbo jet.

AA77 is in some ways the most interesting of the four flights on 9/11. It was hijacked for the longest period of time, and yet the military had the least period of time for intercepting it.

Here's why.

The FAA uses two types of radar - primary and secondary. Primary radar coverage is a physical return on the actual skin of the aircraft itself.

The other type is secondary radar. Secondary radar is the return from an interrogation of the aircraft's transponder - a device that transmits the aircraft's flight code, heading, altitude and speed.

The FAA's Air Route Traffic Control Centres (ARTCC), on a normal daily basis use Secondary Radar. There's a few reasons for this. Firstly, primary radar picks up every single aircraft in the air, and also picks up things like cloud formations. This makes the screen very busy and hard to follow. Secondly, FAA regulations require that all aircraft flying at cruising altitudes (which is the airspace ARTCC's manage) have a transponder and radio. So there's no reason to use primary.

Another problem with primary is it doesn't tell you the identity of the aircraft. and finally, primary coverage is not 100%. There are gaps in the coverage all across the USA.

Now, the big problem with secondary radar is that an aircraft's transponder can be turned off with the flick of a switch, and that's exactly what the hijackers did on 9/11. This isn't a problem if the aircraft transponder is turned off in an area with primary radar coverage - the traffic controller simply flicks a switch to turn on their primary radar display, and the primary contact will appear right where the secondary return just vanished.

The problem is, AA77 was hijacked in a part of the country with no primary cover. When the controller got a full loss of signal and radio communication they made the reasonable and appropriate decision that AA77 had suffered a catastrophic mid air break up and had gone down. Bear in mind that only the eastern ARTCC's knew anything was amiss in the US that day. Indianapolis Centre - where AA77 vanished - knew nothing of the other hijacked aircraft.

The centre began looking west along AA77's flight path for the aircraft to come up again, and asked for the military to start Search and Rescue operations. Meanwhile AA77 had turned around and was heading east, and no one had any idea.

It wasn't until about 9.20 that the FAA began spreading the word to other ARTCC's that hijackings were in progress. At this point, with no AA77 in sight and no wreckage, the supervisor at Indianapolis Centre began to suspect AA77 might also be a hijack. But by now AA77 was in Washington ARTCC's airspace, and they knew nothing about the missing aircraft.

With the likelihood of AA77 being a hijacking continuing, the FAA began searching east, and Washington ARTCC started searching their unidentified primary returns.

At then at 0934, Dulles TRACON picked up an unknown radar contact moving low and fast over Washington DC. That was the first time since the hijacking that anyone had located the flight on a radar. It was too late. Three minutes later it hit the Pentagon.




Or at least it shouldn't. Jets were scrambled. I know that. However there is no excuse for CAP not being in place over our nation's most vital structures--the capitol building in seconds.


In seconds? Really? And where were these jets to come from? Why Washington DC? What indication was there that the capital was a target?




What I am saying is that the fact that there did not seem to be a plan in place to secure the DC airspace (restricted or unrestricted) is grounds for a serious reduction either in rank or employment status.


The only people you could even possibly entertain punishing would be the US Congress, who decided to drastically reduce NORAD's resources after the end of the Cold War.

You have to appreciate that maintaining readiness levels is prohibitively expensive. It's simply not sustainable. That's the reason for the various military DEFCON levels. If tensions increased between the USA and Russia, for example, the DEFCON level would be raised, and as part of that additional resources would be allocated to things like air defense. You have to remember, NORAD's peace time role was very small. In the event of a large scale attack a plan was in place that would put thousands of fighters in the air with AWACS support. But such a plan can't be activated in a few hours, and certainly not from DEFCON 5.





Seriously, this is a republic and we're vulnerable by the definition of our form of government but, IMHO, no other government in the world would allow such actions to take place.


Really? Are you sure about that?

Mathias Rust (born 1968) is a German man known for his illegal landing near the Red Square in Moscow in 1987. As an amateur aviator, he flew from Finland to Moscow, eluding the Soviet air defenses and landing on Vasilevski Spusk next to the Red Square near the Kremlin in the capital of the former USSR.

-Gumboot
 
Thanks for getting back to me.

No, I haven't actually visited Ground Zero. I live way upstate, and it's been a long time since I've been to the city. Last time I was there I was only briefly passing through, and the time before that I remember seeing the Twin Towers.

I would appear your thread is getting hijacked. I for one am curious about your experience as a former "truth" believer.

You should really visit ground zero when you get a chance, especially when you can drive there. I live in Mass. and have been quite a few times.

Care to answer the part about the friend situation? Did they play a role in your awaking, did you loose any because of it, or neither?
 
Say RedIbis, can you name one single piece of evidence (not a source, but evidence) that suddenly converted you to Da Twoof overnight?

I do not think that you can do it.
 
Care to answer the part about the friend situation? Did they play a role in your awaking, did you loose any because of it, or neither?
Neither. I don't think I ever discussed my conspiracy beliefs offline. Something about not wanting to look like a crazy conspiracy guy. :boggled:
 

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