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Debunk-a-LIHOP

Oliver said:
Where are the "I know what's in the 28 classified pages"-Whistleblowers? :confused:

;)
Click to expand...

How would teh evil gubmint have prior knowledge of the attacks?

Someone tipped of the authorities, messages are intercepted and translated, espionage, whatever means... (Field) agents must have gotten access to this information and transfered it to their superiors. Who in turn would transfer it to the head of the agency, who then would transfer it to the gubmint. The agents thinking "I'm glad we stopped this terrible attack" but the gubmint thinking "Let's NOT stop this terrible attack" (the gubmint are just a bunch of coldhearted people).

Here come's 9/11, and the agents/superiors can't understand why nothing has done to prevent it. "Oh well," they think "at least I'm not accountable. Care for some coffee, Jim?"

With LIHOP there must be dozens people who knew of the attacks. Where are those FBI/NSA/CIA et al personal telling us what the gubmint really knew?
 
Bell said:
How would teh evil gubmint have prior knowledge of the attacks?

Someone tipped of the authorities, messages are intercepted and translated, espionage, whatever means... (Field) agents must have gotten access to this information and transfered it to their superiors. Who in turn would transfer it to the head of the agency, who then would transfer it to the gubmint. The agents thinking "I'm glad we stopped this terrible attack" but the gubmint thinking "Let's NOT stop this terrible attack" (the gubmint are just a bunch of coldhearted people).

Here come's 9/11, and the agents/superiors can't understand why nothing has done to prevent it. "Oh well," they think "at least I'm not accountable. Care for some coffee, Jim?"

With LIHOP there must be dozens people who knew of the attacks. Where are those FBI/NSA/CIA et al personal telling us what the gubmint really knew?
Click to expand...


I don't know the answers for your questions - and I don't speculate
about it since this doesn't achieve/reveal anything...

But being a Skeptic, I don't take the official version as being perfect
or acceptable. You might know by now that the Bush-Administration
is lying all along the way anyway.

The question I have is:

Why are the classified CIA and FBI documents "very disturbing"?
Seems like there is more to it than we will ever know...

And if you didn't see the (old) Canadian CBC-Production yet:

Google Video This video is not hosted by the ISF, the ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
 
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T.A.M. said:
Beach, on this I think we will disagree. From what I have read, there were areas of possible incompetence. A lot of them were at the institutional level, and many more were mixed with rivalry, jealousy, and arrogance, but there certainly were areas where some incompetence was seen.

For sure, there was arrogance and ignorance at the administrative level, that one would have to say in hindsight, made them look pretty incompetent.

TAM:)
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There is incompetence in every field. As you know when a new president takes over there is not a new NSA, CIA, FBI, Military, ETC. I served for 28 years in the USAF, we did not stop working for any president due to politics, nor did I get new bosses due to their politics. You can blame the administration and the administration will blame the previous administration, but the buck stops with us.

So how can an incompetent administration get reelected after 9/11? Why, because it was not the administration that failed. If you blame the administration you have to blame the entire government, and then all the people who work in the government, and I was in the Air Force so it was my fault for obeying the stand down order, that was never given.

But I love Monday Morning Quarterbacking, doesn't everyone?
 
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beachnut said:
There is incompetence in every field. As you know when a new president takes over there is not a new NSA, CIA, FBI, Military, ETC. I served for 28 years in the USAF, we did not stop working for any president due to politics, nor did I get new bosses due to their politics. You can blame the administration and the administration will blame the previous administration, but the buck stops with us.

So how can an incompetent administration get reelected after 9/11? Why, because it was not the administration that failed. If you blame the administration you have to blame the entire government, and then all the people who work in the government, and I was in the Air Force so it was my fault too for obeying the stand down order, that was never given.

But I love Monday Morning Quarterbacking, doesn't everyone?
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Actually, it was a stoot down order. An order to both stand down AND shoot down UA93 :boggled:
 
Oliver said:
The question I have is:

Why are the classified CIA and FBI documents "very disturbing"?
Seems like there is more to it than we will ever know...
Click to expand...

Define "very disturbing"

It means nothing in regard to the actual content of said reports.
 
Bell said:
Define "very disturbing"

It means nothing in regard to the actual content of said reports.
Click to expand...


So you know what's within the blackened pages? Or why
do you think that "those pages were very disturbing" doesn't
mean anything? :confused:
 
Oliver said:
So you know what's within the blackened pages? Or why
do you think that "those pages were very disturbing" doesn't
mean anything? :confused:
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"very disturbing" is in the eye of the beholder. Also, that comment alone doesn't explain WHAT is very disturbing. It doesn't prove there is information in those reports that says the gubmint knew of the impending attacks.
 
Bell said:
"very disturbing" is in the eye of the beholder. Also, that comment alone doesn't explain WHAT is very disturbing. It doesn't prove there is information in those reports that says the gubmint knew of the impending attacks.
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I know, but you probably will confirm that this raises questions...
Questions that weren't answered in the Inquiry nor in the Commission
Report.

So LIHOP isn't debunked at all - and probably never will be...
Even if "Debunkers" in here claim to know more than the facts reveal...
 
Oliver said:
I know, but you probably will confirm that this raises questions...
Questions that weren't answered in the Inquiry nor in the Commission
Report.
Click to expand...

I will confirm nothing. I only addressed the quote you provide in your post. Do you have a link to the complete remark, where I can see the quote in context?

So LIHOP isn't debunked at all - and probably never will be...
Even if "Debunkers" in here claim to know more than the facts reveal...
Click to expand...

I agree LIHOP is hard/impossible to debunk. But I still wonder where the whistleblowers are?
 
Bell said:
I will confirm nothing. I only addressed the quote you provide in your post. Do you have a link to the complete remark, where I can see the quote in context?

I agree LIHOP is hard/impossible to debunk. But I still wonder where the whistleblowers are?
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Well, and I wonder where the people are whistle-blowing about
what's in the classified pages.

And quotes don't really matter - she said this in her own words
in this documentary:


Timecode: About 00:35:00

ETA: Direct link to Timecode in question:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9169904580025714112#00h36m00s
 
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Oliver said:
Well, and I wonder where the people are whistle-blowing about
what's in the classified pages.
Click to expand...

What could prevent someone with a conscience to talk about what is in those classified pages? What about all the low level agents who gathered the information in the first place?

And quotes don't really matter - she said this in her own words
in this documentary:


Timecode: About 00:35:00

ETA: Direct link to Timecode in question:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9169904580025714112#00h36m00s
Click to expand...

I typed this up as accurate as I could:

And because they're classified I can't tell you what's in those pages, I can tell you that the chapter deals with information that our committee has found in FBI and CIA files that was very disturbing, it had to do with sources of foreign support for the hijackers or alleged sources of foreign support for the hijackers.
Click to expand...

So, the disturbing information has to do with the sources of (financial) support of the hijackers. Not with the gubmint knowing of the attacks?
 
Bell said:
What could prevent someone with a conscience to talk about what is in those classified pages? What about all the low level agents who gathered the information in the first place?

I typed this up as accurate as I could:

So, the disturbing information has to do with the sources of (financial) support of the hijackers. Not with the gubmint knowing of the attacks?
Click to expand...


Yes, the "disturbing" information within the classified
CIA and FBI documents is about foreign financing...

But this isn't new - we know that foreigners did it anyway.
So what should be "very disturbing" about it???

We know that Bush and Co. had and have Saudi connections.
We know that the Saudis were swept under the carpet in the investigation.
We know that we don't fully know much about the financial ties.

So yes, it's easy to draw a conclusion here for LIHOP'ers,
namely that there may have been a tie between the Administration
and the Saudi-Financiers that are blackened within the 9/11 Inquiry.

Of course - neither you or me is able to prove or disprove that.
But being a skeptic, I hold the position that LIHOP "could" be true,
we simply don't know enough to draw conclusions...

Agreed? :D
 
Oliver said:
Of course - neither you or me is able to prove or disprove that.
But being a skeptic, I hold the position that LIHOP "could" be true,
we simply don't know enough to draw conclusions...

Agreed? :D
Click to expand...

I could agree with that. While I think that LIHOP is very unlikely, it's not absolutely excluded. They'll declassify those 28 pages someday though, and it should be a very interesting read for the historians whenever that happens.
 
Oliver said:
Yes, the "disturbing" information within the classified
CIA and FBI documents is about foreign financing...

But this isn't new - we know that foreigners did it anyway.
So what should be "very disturbing" about it???

We know that Bush and Co. had and have Saudi connections.
We know that the Saudis were swept under the carpet in the investigation.
We know that we don't fully know much about the financial ties.

So yes, it's easy to draw a conclusion here for LIHOP'ers,
namely that there may have been a tie between the Administration
and the Saudi-Financiers that are blackened within the 9/11 Inquiry.

Of course - neither you or me is able to prove or disprove that.
But being a skeptic, I hold the position that LIHOP "could" be true,
we simply don't know enough to draw conclusions...

Agreed? :D
Click to expand...

Sorry Oliver, but I don't agree.

We are talking about this ONE woman's opinion here. We don't know WHAT she found disturbing. Was it the amount of money? Where it came from? Why the FBI/CIA didn't investigate this money flow? Or maybe even the lack of intelligence by those agencies, why they didn't notice the support in the first place?

I also don't agree with your claim that being a skeptic means to consider LIHOP. Where, in recent history, did the US government allow for 3000 of their citizens to be killed to push their agenda?
 
Childlike Empress said:
Here:

Google Video This video is not hosted by the ISF, the ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
Click to expand...

If the second clip was NOT of an Alex Jones interview, I might have watched the whole thing. Do you think that hamburger helps in making a point?
 
Bell said:
Sorry Oliver, but I don't agree.

We are talking about this ONE woman's opinion here. We don't know WHAT she found disturbing. Was it the amount of money? Where it came from? Why the FBI/CIA didn't investigate this money flow? Or maybe even the lack of intelligence by those agencies, why they didn't notice the support in the first place?

I also don't agree with your claim that being a skeptic means to consider LIHOP. Where, in recent history, did the US government allow for 3000 of their citizens to be killed to push their agenda?
Click to expand...


*Lol* I understand your point...

The question is: "If Al Qaida is responsible for the financing,
why should it be >very disturbing< to see that Al Qaida is
behind the financing"?

Or how can it be disturbing what's in the classified documents???

We simply don't know - right? :)
 
Oliver said:
*Lol* I understand your point...

The question is: "If Al Qaida is responsible for the financing,
why should it be >very disturbing< to see that Al Qaida is
behind the financing"?

Or how can it be disturbing what's in the classified documents???

We simply don't know - right? :)
Click to expand...

Right. We don't know. And that's why this woman's quote is of no importance at all.
 
Bell said:
Right. We don't know. And that's why this woman's quote is of no importance at all.
Click to expand...


To me it is... :D After all - she did read the classified information.
So the phrase "the information is very disturbing" - is telling
to me, namely: She knows more about it than we do... :)

Anyway: We don't know if LIHOP is true or probable - or not. We don't know...
 
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