Most atheists do not know what science says about our origins

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Articulett,

Your posts are great.. but I think you mean DOC.. Meadmaker makes perfect sense to me and doesn't do the things you are claiming ???

Other threads... off topic... (I thought Foster Zygote's comment might be directed at me.)

No, DOC is a lying fundamentalist bozo-face. Meadmaker thinks there are some important things about faith and religion worth protecting and started with calling others meanies for picking on Doc in this thread-- I find those picking on DOC to be funny correct and insightful--while offering him a wealth of information he can't seem to gather. It reminds me of Randi and his million dollar prize-- and those who could win it (if they do what they say they can do) and how they snap at his kind offer. I think people have gone out of their way to assemble facts and explain information to DOC--whereas; he has said nothing while inferring smarmy pro-Jesus blather under the guise of "just trying to be informative."
 
I don't believe in a supernatural creator, and I've known since I was twelve or so that evolutionary science teaches that the abundant diversity of life (past and present) descended from single-celled organisms. I expect most people who aren't home-schooled fundamentalists knew that, which I suspect is why DOC considers it to be some sort of unexpected revelation. If students aren't taught it in elementary school (and my kids certainly were), they'll get it in high school biology. There is no basis for the claim that most atheists don't know this, any more than there is any basis for the claim that high school graduates in general don't know it. It's common knowledge, and DOC has presented no evidence for his claim to the contrary.
 
I said you can put any alleged lies at the end of the Jefferson thread or at the end of the thread they supposedly came from. Please don't derail this thread with material from other threads (and that should apply to everyone).
You do not get to decide what goes in any thread - whether you started it or not.:D
 
I said you can put any alleged lies at the end of the Jefferson thread or at the end of the thread they supposedly came from. Please don't derail this thread with material from other threads (and that should apply to everyone).

You do not get to decide what goes in any thread - whether you started it or not.:D:D


to Doks second posting of above.
 
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The fact that you (and others) continue to post non-topic related posts even though twice I asked people not to and also asked a moderator shows a breakdown of the system and it also says something about the people who continue to post non-related topics. Its sad -- it really is. It shows a lack of respect for the Randi site (irregardless how you feel about me)

But in a way I hope it continues, because this continued breaking the rules of the site does more to discredit you than anything I could ever say.
Actually, I fear no disrespect of Randi can be pulled from this pit of slime. Randi had nothing to do with the silliness and misrepresentation of this or any other OP of yours - or any of your posts in the threads of others.
Any disrespect is entirely for you, your misuse of data, misinterpretation of data and your willingness to do this for something so inconsequential as your belief in some murdering/toruring malicious malign thug of an imaginary deity.
 
Why is it that I find myself here tempted to post a nigh-profane rant? Could it be that a smarmy moron who derails as many threads as the rest of us keeps jumping on that high horse and proclaiming that we plebes shouldn't sully his precious threads with trivialities and silliness is just screaming for a pwning?

Well, he's been pwned. Many times, by me and my betters (joobz, dr. kitten, Nova Land, articulett). Oh, and Garrette too.

Maybe he should go back and read the part that he will not be shielded from all attacks or insults. Believe me, compared to six months ago, you've been treated with kid gloves, me matey. Go and look and see how raving nutters used to be dealt with. Go look at Iacchus or Lucianarchy or Paul Bethke. You don't know how good you have it, twerp.

Your points are stupid and insipid. Your support is dishonest and spotty. Your grasp of the English language is pitiful. You have shown no indication of actually engaging in debate, but want respect for being a debater. You're some kind of bater, but not a former one. Either take the suggestions given and clean up you grammar, start having points (rather than just "putting it out there") and actually learn what a good source is. I'd accept Josh MacDowell over any of the crap you have put forth.

Try answering an entire post. Try going back and responding to all of Garrette's post, or have a good, long read from mine and try to see why we might find you laughable, not laudable. Either that, or just go away.
 
Well, I think this thread is finished. DOC, either respond to the relevent posts, or go away.
 
DOC,

...According to the prevailing theories of modern science, we are all indeed descended from a single bacterium, although it is not clear that there is a single ancestral cell that included every single molecule of our ancestral DNA...

However, the basic part of your assertion, that there was one sort of organism at one time that is a common ancestor for all current organisms, including all plants, all animals, and all fungi, is generally accepted...

Now, on to claim number two. You claim that very few atheists are aware of that claim. Your assertion is that atheists are ignorant of the claim of modern science, that we are all descended from some extremely simple form of life. On that claim I take issue. I think most people know that...

What makes you think that most atheists are unaware of the claims of modern science with respect to descent from single celled life?


Well, take joobz, for example. And I'm not doing this to put him down but I think he is representative of a lot of people when he says this:

joobz said:
True. But I get the sense that DOC doesn't really understand the terms he's using. (Like Mijopaalmc pointed out) It's hard for me to continue until I'm confident he knows what we mean when we say that no one claims life came from "one single cell". Such a view is laughably absurd and it must be explained why no scienctist is currently saying such things.


Now I don't know how old joobz is, but I have to believe there are a lot of people out there who don't take advanced science courses or any biology at all for that matter who are atheists or agnostics or don't even think about God. And I believe they too would think it is laughably absurd to think that all the blue whales and dinosaurs and giant redwood trees and butterflies and mushrooms and all their friends and relatives came from a single one celled bacterium.

Maybe you've been around intellectuals and scientists a lot and are not really aware how (the all plants and animals came from one little bacterium) could blow the mind of the average Joe. And I would say joobz has a significantly higher IQ than the average Joe and yet he believed the concept was laughably absurd.

Feeling something is laughably absurd and then learning that's what science says is the generally acceptable theory has to effect your thinking on science and religious matters.

All I want out of all this is for everyone to learn what science is saying. Magazine covers only put apes on the covers when talking about evolution. I've never seen a bacterium on the cover of a magazine when it has an article about man and evolution.

The more knowledge a person has about both science and religion, the better that person can make their decision concerning religious and philosophical matters.
 
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All I want out of all this is for everyone to learn what science is saying. Magazine covers only put apes on the covers when talking about evolution. I've never seen a bacterium on the cover of a magazine when it has an article about man and evolution.
Well, mission accomplished. Maybe next time you could undertake to inform everyone that "alphabetical order" doesn't just apply to the first letter of a word, as many words share the same first letter. Or tip us off to the fact that water, a liquid at room temperature, is actually a compound of two gases, which are bizarrely gaseous at room temperature.

Or, I don't know, actually open one of those magazines and read the article, instead of assuming that the picture on the cover encapsulates all you need to know.
 
Also, there was a person in here that stated I was trying to manipulate people by this thread. In a way that's funny. How can you manipulate people by informing them of generally accepted scientific principles.
 
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In googling to try and find some information in response to DOC's latest post, I ran across this:

http://discovermagazine.com/2005/feb/cover

It is only peripherally related to the topic at hand, but I had never heard of it, and it's darned cool.

Also, I tried in google the terms

evolution magazine bacteria cover

It came back with "Did you mean 'evolution magazine victoria cover'?"

Even google seems to understand that you sell more magazines by putting victoria on the cover than bacteria.
 
Its sad -- it really is. It shows a lack of respect for the Randi site (irregardless how you feel about me)

Appeal to emotions.

Christ's people, the Jews, were slaves for hundreds of years in Egypt and Babylonia. Believe me Fran, God, Jesus (who lived in Roman occupied territory), and the Jews of biblical times understood the pain of slavery.

I should hope that Jesus understood it, he's supposed to be omniscient.
 
Well, take joobz, for example. And I'm not doing this to put him down but I think he is representative of a lot of people when he says this:


I think there's just a miscommunication here.

When people say "science says that all life originated from a single bacterium," that conjures up an image for some people. That image is that somewhere in the primordial ocean, there was one single solitary cell, and it was the only cell in the world, and it started dividing, and eventually became a lawyer.

That view is absurd, and no scientist believes it. That's what joobz is saying.

(It's almost hard to talk about this, because we're discussing what I think joobz is saying about what DOC is saying about what scientists are saying. At some point it becomes absurd to even try and characterize it.)

Instead, a typical scientists believes that there was some pile of water with a lot of dissolved organic molecules that somehow, through a process not understood, produced a molecule capable of replication. This resulted in a pile of goo, in which some interesting chemistry happened. Somewhere, a sack of molecules came together surrouned by lipids and became something like a primitive cell This resulted in some scum on a rock, or floating in the water. As those primitive cells divided and merged, somewhere in that scum there grew up a cell that was particularly good at dividing. So good, in fact, that cells like it grew up a lot faster than those other cells. That cell was the ancestral cell. That's what scientists mean when they say that we all came from a single cell. It wasn't the only cell in existence, but it was just one cell.

Or at least, that's a good bet. It's still quite speculative. It's hard to trace ancestry through mounds of scum.

Now I don't know how old joobz is, but I have to believe there are a lot of people out there who don't take advanced science courses or any biology at all for that matter who are atheists or agnostics or don't even think about God. And I believe they too would think it is laughably absurd to think that all the blue whales and dinosaurs and giant redwood trees and butterflies and mushrooms and all their friends and relatives came from a single one celled bacterium.


What is it you think people would find absurd? I think what you are saying is the idea that all of this incredible diversity had a simple, common, origin.

I don't know any atheist who thinks that's absurd. That's the way it happened, and while the average Joe might not understand it, he figures there must be someone who does, and it doesn't reallly matter to him anyway. (He's overestimating what we know, of course. We really don't have much knowledge of the process. We just know there had to be one.)


All I want out of all this is for everyone to learn what science is saying. Magazine covers only put apes on the covers when talking about evolution. I've never seen a bacterium on the cover of a magazine when it has an article about man and evolution.

"victoria" sells more magazines than "bacteria" (see my previous post). If you look in the inside pages, you can see the pictures of the bacteria. As bokonon said so well, you'll have to read the article, not just the cover.
 
Well, take joobz, for example. And I'm not doing this to put him down but I think he is representative of a lot of people when he says this:

Now I don't know how old joobz is, but I have to believe there are a lot of people out there who don't take advanced science courses or any biology[snip]

It is rather obvious to me that you do not understand enough of biology to even begin to understand the things I write. How about we start with the questions (some of whcih I had already asked) just to see at which point you are completely confused.

1. What is life?
2. What is an organism?
3. What is Life Force?
4. What is a gene
5. Horizontal gene transfer


That should get us started.
 
That view is absurd, and no scientist believes it. That's what joobz is saying.
That is exactly correct. I know for a fact that my language wasn't abstract or obtuse. I know the vast majority of people here understood my position. The only options that I can see is that:
1.) DOC understands so little of biology that even my admittedly simple explanations were lost on him.
or
2.) DOC is intentionally assuming that I'm ignorant as a ploy to gain my ire.

Option 1 I can forgive. Option 2 is another story.
 
DOC said:
All I want out of all this is for everyone to learn what science is saying. Magazine covers only put apes on the covers when talking about evolution. I've never seen a bacterium on the cover of a magazine when it has an article about man and evolution.

:boggled:
 
I know the vast majority of people here understood my position. The only options that I can see is that:
1.) DOC understands so little of biology that even my admittedly simple explanations were lost on him.
You can stop there. EVERYBODY here understood what you were saying, with the sole exception of DOC. The man is so simpleminded, he actually believes the information he imparted in this thread was a revelation. He epitomizes the home-schooled creationist, and has likely lost the ability to think just as cave-dwelling salamanders have lost the ability to see. That's why his posts are collections of phrases from "Liars for Jesus" websites, which he strings together uncritically, like a fortune-cookie collage.
 
DOC said:
All I want out of all this is for everyone to learn what science is saying. Magazine covers only put apes on the covers when talking about evolution. I've never seen a bacterium on the cover of a magazine when it has an article about man and evolution.
:boggled:
Well, that begs the question: DOC, have you learned what "science is saying"?
 
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