Why Can't They Figure it Out?

[Darat]

This is the Education section of the Forum and it's focus is about Education, if you wish to discuss Social issues or Political issues or matters of meanings of words please do so in the correct section of the Forum.

Also I note many borderline if not outright breaches of the Membership Agreement in some of the most recent posts in this thread - I suggest that all participants refresh their memory of their Membership Agreement so that no further Moderator action has to be taken.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Darat

 

[LostAngeles]

As with many others, since you are a liberal and therefore are virtually incapable of telling the truth, much less incorporating it into your ideology, I simply read what you say to identify you for what you are.

For example: "Tokie is a RAAACCCCIIIIISTTTTTTT!!!' 'cuz he said "Hispanic" to mean "illegal alien invader!!!"

Well, no...turns out, I din't. But that does not stop you from doing what lefties from Lenin to Goebbels to Chomsky, to Gore, to the Billary do so well: tell a lie loudly and long enough and it becomes the truth.

Which is what you are doing here. You believe that if you simply repeat the non-evidentiary clame that Tokie is a RAAAACCCCIIIISTTTTTTT!!! it will become truth simply by that repetion. It's only unfortunate that you don't have some means of making that actually shriek at readers from the screen to cement the point, huh?

Your thoughts and opinion on immigration are your own. Your thoughts and opinions on ILLEGAL immigration are those of your movement, the far, far left, bent on the destruction of America by any means.

Tokie

I'd still like to know how you know I'm a liberal or what my thoughts are on anything.

Edit: Not to mention, read your own words again and see that you did equate an ethnicity with illegal immigration.

 

[LostAngeles]

Lonewulf, you said you're starting classes soon?

I'm guessing either Germany doesn't end the term at Christmas or you're suffering from an even worse version of my," Here's the syllabus, here's the midterm, here's the final, bye." We just finished out week 2 of a 10 week quarter.

 

[Zep]

Yeah...better than "my Precious," I figger.

Tokie

[stunned]

You didn't even read your own post that put my comments in context. So you completely misunderstood yourself!

And yet you wonder why we think you're a joke!

[/stunned]

 

[Lonewulf]

Lonewulf, you said you're starting classes soon?

I'm guessing either Germany doesn't end the term at Christmas or you're suffering from an even worse version of my," Here's the syllabus, here's the midterm, here's the final, bye." We just finished out week 2 of a 10 week quarter.

Well, it's not Heidelberg University class, it's the Max Weber house. Year-long intensive course for learning German. Fun stuff.

 

[LostAngeles]

Well, it's not Heidelberg University class, it's the Max Weber house. Year-long intensive course for learning German. Fun stuff.

Ahh, ok. Well, now I'm not sending you cookies to ease your stress. You should have lied to me, you anarchist, liberal, dope-fiend.

 

[Lonewulf]

Ahh, ok. Well, now I'm not sending you cookies to ease your stress. You should have lied to me, you anarchist, liberal, dope-fiend.

That's okay.

Pie is also acceptable.

 

[LostAngeles]

That's okay.

Pie is also acceptable.

Eh... I don't know if you want that from me. It's been described as... well, I guess crazy, irrational, occasionally transcendental, but that last one is by folks who are just plain weird.

Sure you wouldn't want some e, druggie?

 

[Lonewulf]

Naw, I'm good.

I'll stick with getting high on caffeine and other legal stimulants.

 

[LostAngeles]

Naw, I'm good.

I'll stick with getting high on caffeine and other legal stimulants.

Hey, they give e and its derivatives in plenty of high school classrooms and colleges around the world. It's totally legal, except for the whole thing where you invert it and derangements and...

Yeah, you might be best staying away from it, man...

 

[LostAngeles]

(BTW Have I run the joke into the ground yet?)

 

[Tokenconservative]

I'd still like to know how you know I'm a liberal or what my thoughts are on anything.

Edit: Not to mention, read your own words again and see that you did equate an ethnicity with illegal immigration.

Simple: I read what you say, compare it to liberal, conservative and "other" political ideologies and arrive at a conclusion.

Isn't that how you do things? Oh...no, that's right. You allow people to TELL you what they are. Makes sense

If you are ....a liberal.

Anyway, before you hijacked this thread, the issue was how a school with a majority of students for whom English as, at best, a "second" language can expect anything but for the average scores in mandated testing to be anything but poor.

Every year where I live, schools are tested (not students. We had a conservative governor and legislature for some 12 years, and they made it clear that what is being tested by the students demonstrating their level of mastery of the "three rs" is the SCHOOL's ability to TEACH, not the kids' ability to learn. Of course, had we had a lib guv and legis, a wholly-owned subsidiary of the NEA, that would never have been permitted. They are working very hard now that they ARE in power here, to change it). The schools are then publicaly (horrors!) rated as to whether they are doing a poor, average, good or exemplary job. Every year for the past 8 or so, schools with higher numbers of "Hispanics" (they do not bother breaking them out by actual legal residency status of they or their parents) always--ALWAYS--do poor, several to the point of state-mandated closure.

Now, you can shriek "RACCCCCIIISTTTTTT!!!" for my making the entirely reasonable comment on the fact that a heavy "Hispanic" population that we ALSO (according to the same records) know is ESL, indicates that a great many of these kids are themselve illegals or the children of illegals, as you are commanded to do by your Playbook.

But the fact remains that Spanish is not a race. It's a language.

One of the problems with PC (in which libs like you wallow) is that it does not permit HONEST assessments of things. For example: Where I live (and most places in the Western and Southern US, when you are talking about illegal aliens, you are not talking about the dozen or so Australians in the area who've overstayed their visas. You are, by and large, and in overwhelming numbers, talking about people from Mexico, Latin America and in a very few cases, South America.

So, yes, you can equivocate, march out your strawmen fed on a fortifying diet of red herrings, beg the question and engage in all the hasty generalizations you care to in order to toe the left-liberal, PC line, but that simply does not change reality.

The reality is: the schools that consistently fail to the point of state-ordered closure have higher (much, often) than average "Hispanic" populations, and here, where I live, that means many of these students are themselves illegal immigrants or their parents are. By tagging THESE students as "Hispanic" along with all the truly Hispanic-American kids who go to school there does an enormous disservice to those AMERICAN kids, but in your hyper-leftist thinking, since political correctness trumps all, well then...to HELL with those kids!

Tokie

 

[Tokenconservative]

[stunned]

You didn't even read your own post that put my comments in context. So you completely misunderstood yourself!

And yet you wonder why we think you're a joke!

[/stunned]

Wow.

Just. Wow.

I don't need to re-read my OWN posts. I know what I think. Your intentional misrepresentation of what I've said is up to you.

Tokie

 

[LostAngeles]

Simple: I read what you say, compare it to liberal, conservative and "other" political ideologies and arrive at a conclusion.

Isn't that how you do things? Oh...no, that's right. You allow people to TELL you what they are. Makes sense

If you are ....a liberal.

Anyway, before you hijacked this thread, the issue was how a school with a majority of students for whom English as, at best, a "second" language can expect anything but for the average scores in mandated testing to be anything but poor.

Every year where I live, schools are tested (not students. We had a conservative governor and legislature for some 12 years, and they made it clear that what is being tested by the students demonstrating their level of mastery of the "three rs" is the SCHOOL's ability to TEACH, not the kids' ability to learn. Of course, had we had a lib guv and legis, a wholly-owned subsidiary of the NEA, that would never have been permitted. They are working very hard now that they ARE in power here, to change it). The schools are then publicaly (horrors!) rated as to whether they are doing a poor, average, good or exemplary job. Every year for the past 8 or so, schools with higher numbers of "Hispanics" (they do not bother breaking them out by actual legal residency status of they or their parents) always--ALWAYS--do poor, several to the point of state-mandated closure.

Now, you can shriek "RACCCCCIIISTTTTTT!!!" for my making the entirely reasonable comment on the fact that a heavy "Hispanic" population that we ALSO (according to the same records) know is ESL, indicates that a great many of these kids are themselve illegals or the children of illegals, as you are commanded to do by your Playbook.

But the fact remains that Spanish is not a race. It's a language.

One of the problems with PC (in which libs like you wallow) is that it does not permit HONEST assessments of things. For example: Where I live (and most places in the Western and Southern US, when you are talking about illegal aliens, you are not talking about the dozen or so Australians in the area who've overstayed their visas. You are, by and large, and in overwhelming numbers, talking about people from Mexico, Latin America and in a very few cases, South America.

So, yes, you can equivocate, march out your strawmen fed on a fortifying diet of red herrings, beg the question and engage in all the hasty generalizations you care to in order to toe the left-liberal, PC line, but that simply does not change reality.

The reality is: the schools that consistently fail to the point of state-ordered closure have higher (much, often) than average "Hispanic" populations, and here, where I live, that means many of these students are themselves illegal immigrants or their parents are. By tagging THESE students as "Hispanic" along with all the truly Hispanic-American kids who go to school there does an enormous disservice to those AMERICAN kids, but in your hyper-leftist thinking, since political correctness trumps all, well then...to HELL with those kids!

Tokie

Yes, I let people tell me what they are, much like I don't let folks tell me I'm Mexican, Indian, Sicilian, Hawaiian, etc, or the TSA tell me I'm Middle-Eastern. I don't let folks tell me I'm a baby-making machine who couldn't add 2+2 with a calculator, much less handle mutli-variable calculus.

Your emphasis on the language and documentation status of these students is precluding the other factors involved in school performance, namely, socio-economic status and parental involvement.

When the parent is working long hours trying to keep the family fed, the parent has very little time to ask the kid how s/he is doing in school or keep in contact with the teachers. When the kid comes to school hungry, it's hard to keep focus. When the kid is surrounded by crime and has to worry about their safety when going back and forth to school, be it gang violence or that crazy homeless person, how much focus can you expect them to have in class?

This isn't to say we shouldn't be holding our schools to high standards, but we should also be focusing on some the factors outside of the classroom that are affecting performance.

When it comes to ESL education, you have to realize that not all of the kids in ESL are from Spanish-speaking homes and not all of them are illegal or the offspring of illegal immigrants. Immersion is the best way to learn, but this is also easier for younger kids who pick up languages faster. Having to juggle learning a new language and new information in that language is diificult.

Still, this is just one part of a whole problem.

You need to stop yelling at a single tree and ignoring the entire forest just because you hate that tree, but love your $19.99 microwaves at Wal-Mart.

 

[NobbyNobbs]

You are right, teacher salaries are not exceptional. Rid yourselves of your union and that can change. Meanwhile, as always, you say nothing about the bennies. You get full health coverage including dental and vision and even mental health, and you pay nothing for it out of your paycheck (the taxpayer picks it up). Moreover, you will retire at 70-90% of the greatest year's pay you recieve during your career. Meaning that even if, you can't make it to the 25 or 30 years, and go part time or some such, when you DO retire, it won't be at the reduced salary, but at your HIGHEST salary.

I teach at a private school. No union.

I pay my own dental and vision. I retire at 50% of the greatest year's paycheck. If I stick around 30 years, that means I'll probably retire at $35K of today's dollars.

On top of all this, the economy does not--ever--impact your salary. It just keeps going up. You cannot be fired for virtually any reason after reaching "tenure" or whatever mealy-mouthed thing it's called today.

As I said, it's a private school. The economy directly impacts parents' abilities to send their kids there. Less kids means less teachers.

My state is an "at-will" state. It means I can quit at a moment's notice with no stated reason. It also means they can fire me at a moment's notice for no stated reason.

And finally, nobody is holding a gun to your head. On the very off chance you are a teacher because you actively decided that's what you wanted to do, and not because at some point in college you said to yourself after seeing another 2.16 GPA for the year, "well, I can always teach, I guess," nobody forced you into it, and nobody is forcing you to stay right now.

Tokie

This is the disregard you hold for teachers? I have some choice names for you, but they'd probably violate the membership agreement.

Only if they ARE citizens should they have the right to "free" healthcare.

My point exactly. The people I was talking about are the kids born here, hence they are legal citizens.

So...you admit that you were a party to an illegal act, the knowning employment of someone not here legally and therefore not legally entitled to hold a job here?

What did you do about that? Did you turn the joint in? Did you fire the illegal? Or just hire more?

And why were you, a good, caring liberal, a party to exploiting these poor "Hispanic immigrants" simply seeking a better life and doing the jobs "Americans won't do!!"?

Tokie

A) I did not hire these folks. I came into jobs where they already worked.

B) Once I found out there were illegals at any particular job, I did what I could to help them become legal, which, as I said, about 90% wanted to. I helped them contact the proper offices, fill out the proper forms, etc.

So much for your assumptions.

My kids are in high school...young to me, but hardly in need of moment-by-moment Daddy time. I imagine any kids of yours would need that. But that's why we have parole officers and social workers.

And with that, I leave the thread. Completely unnecessary. Bye, everyone.

 

[LibraryLady]

Please remember to keep the tone civil and to attack the argument. Snide remarks about each other's parenting skills are not on topic.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: LibraryLady

 

[Gnu Ordure]

"mortal coil" may not have, in the original meant what I used it to mean, but it means that now.

No, it doesn't.

This is not a case of the meaning of a word evolving over time. Find me a dictionary defining coil as you used it, ie meaning world or the Earth - you won't be able to.

The meaning of coil as Shakespeare used it has died out and is now archaic. You never see it these days except as part of the phrase this mortal coil, indicating that the meaning intended is as Shakespeare meant it. But most people don't actually know what he meant, they're guessing, just as you did.

No shame in ignorance, Token. Many people are unfamiliar with Shakespeare and sixteenth century English, and so get it wrong. (From wiki )

However, your reaction to being corrected is significant. You could have thanked me for the information, but no, you insist that the meaning of the word has in fact changed, when it hasn't, and that you will continue to use it incorrectly.

So the next time someone calls you on it, you won't be able to claim ignorance, as you have this time. And you're obviously not stupid.

What else is there ?

Here's another definition:

Bigot - a person obstinately and unreasonably attached to an opinion or belief.

And in my dictionary, next to the definition, there's a picture of you.



As I said, Token, my original point was minor, but sometimes small points are just as revealing as large ones.

So, enjoy your game of winding up the lefties (which incidentally, you are signally failing to do as far as Lonewulf is concerned).

But you've clearly demonstrated contempt for almost everyone here, and you're not interested in listening or learning. And while you might be having fun, your insults, sarcasm and condescension really aren't entertaining enough for the neutral observer, so I'm leaving you to it.

A parting shot.

Some of your earlier ranting reminded me of Macbeth's observation :


It is a tale told by an idiot,

Full of sound and fury,

Signifying nothing.



.

 

[ImaginalDisc]

No, it doesn't.

This is not a case of the meaning of a word evolving over time. Find me a dictionary defining coil as you used it, ie meaning world or the Earth - you won't be able to.

The meaning of coil as Shakespeare used it has died out and is now archaic. You never see it these days except as part of the phrase this mortal coil, indicating that the meaning intended is as Shakespeare meant it. But most people don't actually know what he meant, they're guessing, just as you did.

No shame in ignorance, Token. Many people are unfamiliar with Shakespeare and sixteenth century English, and so get it wrong. (From wiki )

However, your reaction to being corrected is significant. You could have thanked me for the information, but no, you insist that the meaning of the word has in fact changed, when it hasn't, and that you will continue to use it incorrectly.

So the next time someone calls you on it, you won't be able to claim ignorance, as you have this time. And you're obviously not stupid.

What else is there ?

Here's another definition:

Bigot - a person obstinately and unreasonably attached to an opinion or belief.

And in my dictionary, next to the definition, there's a picture of you.



As I said, Token, my original point was minor, but sometimes small points are just as revealing as large ones.

So, enjoy your game of winding up the lefties (which incidentally, you are signally failing to do as far as Lonewulf is concerned).

But you've clearly demonstrated contempt for almost everyone here, and you're not interested in listening or learning. And while you might be having fun, your insults, sarcasm and condescension really aren't entertaining enough for the neutral observer, so I'm leaving you to it.

A parting shot.

Some of your earlier ranting reminded me of Macbeth's observation :


It is a tale told by an idiot,

Full of sound and fury,

Signifying nothing.



.

Nominated.

 

[Tokenconservative]

I teach at a private school. No union.

I pay my own dental and vision. I retire at 50% of the greatest year's paycheck. If I stick around 30 years, that means I'll probably retire at $35K of today's dollars.

As I said, it's a private school. The economy directly impacts parents' abilities to send their kids there. Less kids means less teachers.

My state is an "at-will" state. It means I can quit at a moment's notice with no stated reason. It also means they can fire me at a moment's notice for no stated reason.

This is the disregard you hold for teachers? I have some choice names for you, but they'd probably violate the membership agreement.

My point exactly. The people I was talking about are the kids born here, hence they are legal citizens.

A) I did not hire these folks. I came into jobs where they already worked.

B) Once I found out there were illegals at any particular job, I did what I could to help them become legal, which, as I said, about 90% wanted to. I helped them contact the proper offices, fill out the proper forms, etc.

So much for your assumptions.

And with that, I leave the thread. Completely unnecessary. Bye, everyone.

I always love this sort of "clever" debating tactic.

Provide only part of the necessary data, forcing your opponent to make the natural assumptions, then when he does, leap on his errors and shriek "you're wrong, ahahhahahhahahhahahaha!"

Sheesh.

My comments are, as anyone who's now a fan of mine knows directed almost entirely at PUBLIC schools teachers. I have known some pretty piss-poor private school teachers, but in the main, private schools appear to tend to hire a much higher-quality teacher. So virtually all of your vitriol is in fact, vituperation.

You are certainly meeting a different sort of illegal than am I. Most I meet have Mexican flags all over everything they own and don't stand for the pledge and the National Anthem, because they are not "their's."

I've actually had the children of illegals (yes, I make that horrific assumption) tell me this in schools.

And of course you then have to run away...probably figuring out at the end of this rant that my comments are not, and never are, aimed at private school teachers.

Tokie

 

[Tokenconservative]

No, it doesn't.

This is not a case of the meaning of a word evolving over time. Find me a dictionary defining coil as you used it, ie meaning world or the Earth - you won't be able to.

The meaning of coil as Shakespeare used it has died out and is now archaic. You never see it these days except as part of the phrase this mortal coil, indicating that the meaning intended is as Shakespeare meant it. But most people don't actually know what he meant, they're guessing, just as you did.

No shame in ignorance, Token. Many people are unfamiliar with Shakespeare and sixteenth century English, and so get it wrong. (From wiki )

However, your reaction to being corrected is significant. You could have thanked me for the information, but no, you insist that the meaning of the word has in fact changed, when it hasn't, and that you will continue to use it incorrectly.

So the next time someone calls you on it, you won't be able to claim ignorance, as you have this time. And you're obviously not stupid.

What else is there ?

Here's another definition:

Bigot - a person obstinately and unreasonably attached to an opinion or belief.

And in my dictionary, next to the definition, there's a picture of you.



As I said, Token, my original point was minor, but sometimes small points are just as revealing as large ones.

So, enjoy your game of winding up the lefties (which incidentally, you are signally failing to do as far as Lonewulf is concerned).

But you've clearly demonstrated contempt for almost everyone here, and you're not interested in listening or learning. And while you might be having fun, your insults, sarcasm and condescension really aren't entertaining enough for the neutral observer, so I'm leaving you to it.

A parting shot.

Some of your earlier ranting reminded me of Macbeth's observation :


It is a tale told by an idiot,

Full of sound and fury,

Signifying nothing.



.

Well, if nothing else, you (and others) have certainly managed to derail the thread.

Nothing PC and it's minions (if I am using that term correctly) despise (if I am using that term correctly) and fear more than an open presentation of the truth.

Which is why those very minions needs must do exactly what you are doing here "this argument is clearly wrong because the guy making the presentation used an inconsequential (to the issue/argument) term incorrectly!!"

Therefore, one can assume, that had I used "moral coil" correctly, you would agree with the original point, eh?

No...of course not. Even were my English usage, grammar etc. exemplary and without any possible nit-picky flaw, you'd STILL find some way to divert the issue...look! An eagle!

Sheesh.

You are right...this is a closed thread.

My experiment was a complete success (and I know I am using that term correctly in this case).

Tokie