Rosemary Hunter...

[This is The End]

Aside from rjh01's inexpensive method (wouldn't a -magicians trick corsage (flower) water pistol thing- be apt), I can't help but wonder at more expensive methods as well (RF).....

Is there a recent protocal up? I may have missed it.

Is she going to be searched for devices?

 

[RemieV]

Aside from rjh01's inexpensive method (wouldn't a -magicians trick corsage (flower) water pistol thing- be apt), I can't help but wonder at more expensive methods as well (RF).....

Is there a recent protocal up? I may have missed it.

Is she going to be searched for devices?

I don't think we'll be 'searching' her. What type of device are you worried about? I cannot think of one that would fool even Jeff, who would be standing right there. I mean, the man's gonna notice if she pulls out a spray bottle and starts shooting urine at him.

The protocol outline is pretty simple. Here's the e-mail everyone has agreed to:

After your arrival and introductions at the JREF, you and Jeff Wagg will enter a room privately where you will have fifteen minutes to make him urinate through paranormal means.

Touching of hands will be permitted. Speaking, should it be deemed necessary, will be permitted.

The test will be recorded by another JREF staff member.

With your permission, there will also be a stationary webcam so interested parties can view the test live.

Both you and Jeff will remain standing for the length of the test.

Jeff will not be wearing any diapers or other absorbent materials besides regular pants and underwear.

At the end of fifteen minutes, if Jeff has not urinated, the test will be considered a failure.



*****

Note that the protocol says that he must be made to urinate through paranormal means. Not have urine shot at him out of a Super Soaker

 

[This is The End]

Are you aware of some humans having the ability to "gleek" sic. (and not the Shakespearian gleek either). Try urbandictionary.com

I remember a kid in high school who, while having their mouth barely open, could shoot a near invisible stream of water, controlled, fast, and with distance. Having spent considerable time with him (trying to learn/teach others), the success rate implied it had to do with genetics (like the ability to curl the tongue into a W, connected earlobes, etc.). We found very few who would be able to perform like he did even with considerable practice.

Doing this, without anyone noticing, to make it appear someone wet themselves was not only possible for him, it was trademark.

........ you (Ms. Hunter) and Jeff Wagg will enter a room privately where you will have fifteen minutes to make him urinate through paranormal means............The test will be recorded by another JREF staff member.

I wonder, sorry to imply any mistrust, if Jeff (and the alluded to cameraman) can withstand being asked to split a million dollars.

As for other devices, aside from water projection. There may be a chance, however small, of some unknown specific radio frequency effect. Obviously that would bring up the problem of price and it being directional (make just one person pee and not everyone in the area.) I can't help but think someone would not just spend under a million to scam this million from JREF, but that some parties might be willing to spend way more, using a stooge to do everything of course.

 

[rjh01]

To prevent such cheating Jeff could wear plastic pants above his normal trousers. Then if the urine is beneath the plastic then we know it is Jeff's urine. If it is above the plastic then it is cheating.

 

[chran]

To prevent such cheating Jeff could wear plastic pants above his normal trousers. Then if the urine is beneath the plastic then we know it is Jeff's urine. If it is above the plastic then it is cheating.

Ooooh, I like that!

The protocol-change that is, not the urine part ...

 

[Blue Bubble]

I wonder, sorry to imply any mistrust, if Jeff (and the alluded to cameraman) can withstand being asked to split a million dollars.

As for other devices, aside from water projection. There may be a chance, however small, of some unknown specific radio frequency effect. Obviously that would bring up the problem of price and it being directional (make just one person pee and not everyone in the area.) I can't help but think someone would not just spend under a million to scam this million from JREF, but that some parties might be willing to spend way more, using a stooge to do everything of course.

Ah but remember, this is only the preliminary test, so any collusion would have to involve whoever would take part in the final test (assuming she passes the prelim ).

Come to think of it, what would the final test consist of if it's to prove harder to pass than the preliminary ? The mind boggles ...

 

[Gaspode60]

The protocol says Jeff must be made to 'urinate' by paranormal means. If gleeking is considered a possibility then is there a chemical test that could be applied to the wet patch to determine if it is urine or saliva? (although, I agree, wearing waterproof pants or a waterproof apron couls achieve the same end).

 

[This is The End]

Gaspode60 don't forget that would require also testing against her having a mouthwash of ammonia (or dare I say pee) beforehand. This again favors waterproof outerwear.

Ah, I did forget about the whole prelim part. No reason to make it as "watertight" as a final test..... If Jeff is even 1/2 as confident as I would be in someone not being able to make yourself pee, then that protocol is sufficient.

It's either, "Yes, she made me pee muhself!" or "Nope, nothin".
I see no reasons for Jeff saying the first thing (affirmative pee) without it being true. I trust JREF to have picked someone with extreme confidence without motive (and if she's a paranormal hypnotist, then she'd be having you test the wrong thing )

As far as him saying the second (negative pee) without it being true, again I see no possible reasons as per above. (and clearly Ms. Hunter would have no motive for causing a false negative).

Problems arise with the several motive driven “reasons” she'll have for him saying the second (negative pee) without it being true, that even taking off his clothes won't solve.

So let me rephrase that this protocol is sufficient, except in her eyes. In as much as you know Jeff’s propensity to lie, versus how much she’ll want herself and others to believe he did after the fact.

So far it’s:
A: most probable she won’t show up
B: most probable that if she does show up there’s a “negative pee” result
C: most probable that with said result (B) she ends up claiming he lied

Clearly we can’t do much about A & B but we should attempt to avoid C.

Off hand, one way I see of doing this without changing the current protocol much is adding a2nd person, of her choosing, for her to make pee as well. Unfortunately that brings about other problems………..

 

[Cuddles]

After your arrival and introductions at the JREF, you and Jeff Wagg will enter a room privately where you will have fifteen minutes to make him urinate through paranormal means.

I don't get this part. They enter the room privately, but with someone else and a camera. So, not privately at all.

 

[Smiledriver]

I had the pleasure of meeting Jeff on the last AA cruise and I can't help but be amused that he his doing this. It's so wierd. It tickles me to no end to imagine him setting there trying to sense if he is about to pee him self on webcam. What a wild hilarious world we live in.

 

[Mendeli]

What happened to blind testing?

What about controlling suggestion?

 

[RemieV]

A cautious date has been set - it will not be the first week of November, since Jeff had to alter his travel plans. Jeff has suggested, and Rosemary has agreed to, the 12th of November.

 

[Crossbow]

A cautious date has been set - it will not be the first week of November, since Jeff had to alter his travel plans. Jeff has suggested, and Rosemary has agreed to, the 12th of November.

Thanks much 'RemieV'!

I appreciate your work in getting this test organized and I look forward to the results.

 

[colin]

She hasn’t backed out yet? It's less than two weeks away. My psychic powers must be failing me. Is Randi around? Damn his skeptic vibes.

Touching of hands will be permitted. Speaking, should it be deemed necessary, will be permitted.

Is there any concern about a topical diuretic being applied? I don’t know if there is such a thing or if one could work in 15 minutes, but I’d thought I’d throw the idea out there.

 

[tojohndillonesq]

Best claimed talent EVER! I love it that the JREF staff is putting their... uhhh... dignity at stake along with their money.

 

[vidiviciveni]

I don't think we'll be 'searching' her. What type of device are you worried about? I cannot think of one that would fool even Jeff, who would be standing right there. I mean, the man's gonna notice if she pulls out a spray bottle and starts shooting urine at him.

I know we have gone over this, however I think that we should not dismiss this idea so lightly.

Say she did have a small bag containing urine, concealed near her elbow, with a thin tube that ended at her wrist (Spiderman Web Toy like). When the test starts she takes her time to see where the camera is, minutes pass & nothing happens... 10 minutes in, all the observers have lowered their guard thinking it's a waste of time and nothing will happen...

She skilfully moves to block the camera and gets hold of hold Jeff's hand(s). They are both standing, she holds his hand(s) near him, just in front of his stomach so that her wrist is pointing at his upper thigh, and only inches away (having carefully noted which way he's anging). Using her elbow squeezes the bag against her body. Only a little liquid need hit the target, she moves back and the camera sees the small stain (the protocol makes no mention of the volume of urination needed to succeed, a damp patch the size of a poker chip would do! Indeed the smaller the patch the better) on his trousers. As she moves away she masks any drops on the floot with her shoes by scuffing the floor & elevates her hand to catch any seepage.

Given that scenario she could pass the test.

O.K. she wouldn't be able to do it with the $1m challenge, but remember, no one has yet passed the preliminary test. Being the first to pass this test would be almost as big a victory to woo believers, we all know that they need only a hint of success to propound years of future delusion.

Now I know you said that Jeff or an observer may spot it, but as long as the camera doesn't see it she can say that he did urinate and its her word against yours.

Jeff says "But, my underware is dry!" But how can you prove it, without going out of camera shot. Jeff can't drop his trousers and say "Here, feel my underwear, it's bone dry!!" She'd have you for sexual harassment!. Also you can't insist on searching her.

I know it sounds far fetched, stupid even, but that's the trouble, because the whole idea is so laughable... paranormal urination , we may risk dropping our guard here not just our jaw.

The nuttier the claim, the more vigilant one must be!

After all this I still hope she turns up on Monday

 

[RemieV]

I know we have gone over this, however I think that we should not dismiss this idea so lightly.

Say she did have a small bag containing urine, concealed near her elbow, with a thin tube that ended at her wrist (Spiderman Web Toy like). When the test starts she takes her time to see where the camera is, minutes pass & nothing happens... 10 minutes in, all the observers have lowered their guard thinking it's a waste of time and nothing will happen...

She skilfully moves to block the camera and gets hold of hold Jeff's hand(s). They are both standing, she holds his hand(s) near him, just in front of his stomach so that her wrist is pointing at his upper thigh, and only inches away (having carefully noted which way he's anging). Using her elbow squeezes the bag against her body. Only a little liquid need hit the target, she moves back and the camera sees the small stain (the protocol makes no mention of the volume of urination needed to succeed, a damp patch the size of a poker chip would do! Indeed the smaller the patch the better) on his trousers. As she moves away she masks any drops on the floot with her shoes by scuffing the floor & elevates her hand to catch any seepage.

Given that scenario she could pass the test.

O.K. she wouldn't be able to do it with the $1m challenge, but remember, no one has yet passed the preliminary test. Being the first to pass this test would be almost as big a victory to woo believers, we all know that they need only a hint of success to propound years of future delusion.

Now I know you said that Jeff or an observer may spot it, but as long as the camera doesn't see it she can say that he did urinate and its her word against yours.

Jeff says "But, my underware is dry!" But how can you prove it, without going out of camera shot. Jeff can't drop his trousers and say "Here, feel my underwear, it's bone dry!!" She'd have you for sexual harassment!. Also you can't insist on searching her.

I know it sounds far fetched, stupid even, but that's the trouble, because the whole idea is so laughable... paranormal urination , we may risk dropping our guard here not just our jaw.

The nuttier the claim, the more vigilant one must be!

After all this I still hope she turns up on Monday

The protocol states that she must make Jeff urinate with the power of her mind. If she uses any props of any kind, she will obviously not be making him urinate with the power of her mind and will therefore immediately be disqualified from both the current test and any future tests.

 

[Kimpatsu]

The protocol states that she must make Jeff urinate with the power of her mind. If she uses any props of any kind, she will obviously not be making him urinate with the power of her mind and will therefore immediately be disqualified from both the current test and any future tests.

I think the point was that she may cheat and succeed with the subterfuge, hence the suggestion that she be searched prior to commencement.

 

[RemieV]

I think the point was that she may cheat and succeed with the subterfuge, hence the suggestion that she be searched prior to commencement.

I guess I'm just failing to see how, in the situation described, Jeff could be fooled.

 

[Kimpatsu]

I guess I'm just failing to see how, in the situation described, Jeff could be fooled.

Jeff wouldn't be, but it would then be a case of his word against hers, and not "obvious to all participants" as the challenge rules specify.