Criss Angel exposes psychics on A&E

I don't think Angel's "camera tricks" are any different than some of Penn & Teller's camera usage. For example, P&T's act used to have the duo strapped upside down. Or what about when Penn drove over Teller in a 18 wheel truck? That was a camera angle illusion (as they revealed later).

*snip*.

Penn and Teller don't use camera edits to create tricks,Angel does.The example you gave of P&T was a stunt and they revealed it to be so.If Angel owned up to editing after his illusions that would be okay.He doesn't.
WHen Penn drove the truck over Teller it was stated from outset a number of choices as to what effect was.
 
Penn and Teller did those "camera tricks" as some kind of joke. Criss actually takes it seriously and uses it for many of his routines.
 
How do you know Chriss uses camera tricks? I am curious, and if there is undeniable proof, then I will have to hang my head in shame for Chriss Angel :(
 
When I was watching a tv special featuring Chris wandering around the streets and levitating, one thing noticeable in those non-location-specific levitation demonstrations is that he positions the people behind him, at a very specific viewing angle. This is also true of the cameras: never do you see him from the front, and specifically, his whole body from the front, with the ground in front of him shown too.

If you look around on the web for explanations of levitation trickery, you can find out why.
 
It was a very brief interlude in an extended conversation, and I don't remember the exact wording (if anyone else who was there remembers, and if they're reading this thread, I wouldn't mind if they gave their version); I therefore am not going to get trapped into defending or explaining Randi's comments.

I would, however, like to point out that they were Randi's comments, not mine. I would also like to point out that Randi is personally and more than passingly acquainted with Angel and I am reasonably certain you are not; I therefore lend more weight to Randi's take on things than I do to your arguments.

Finally, I believe it is exactly this black-and-white, either-or type of thinking and argumentation that has me, and I believe Randi, so disgusted with the forum. It certainly does not conform to any kind of scientific method.

C'mon, Beady, get off your high horse! Your trying to align yourself with Randi is a turnoff. You are your own person, speak for yourself and let Randi chime in with HIS views if he so desires. If you are "so disgusted with the forum," so long! Ease on out and let others who want to discuss the subject not be subjected to your interference. This is not a scientific forum, we are not scientists, take a break!
 
I'm not replying to anything.

I would like someone to explain to me why after I reply to a post and click on Submit I get a page with a popup in the middle of the page that says (I've never included a URL in my replies and I had to edit the Message in order for the system to let me post this!): vBulletin Message:
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I was not bashing or defaming Angel - in fact, I like him and his shows very much. Which is why I so fervently hope that he comes across well in this somewhat strange pairing with Geller.

I find your suggestion that he is such an innocent abroad a rather strange defence. He's not some dumb kid - no, I do not know the man - but I am sure he would not thank you for the inference that he has become involved with the show because he has little business acumen. He is highly successful at what he does - lives and works in Vegas, has tv shows and a strong fan-base...

Has Randi actually said he is "disgusted" with the forum? Well, I'm truly surprised and sorry to hear that - personally, I find it one of the saner places on the internet to hang out & I recommend it to friends all the time. But if he is so disgusted, I guess its closure must be imminent since it is his forum.
 
Saying that Angel bears no responsibility for promoting Geller as a genuine psychic (if the show does that) becuase he's a naive businessman is a dumb argument, whether it comes from Randi or anyone else.

Please quote the passage where I said that, or said that Randi said it. People have been guessing why Angel went into a partnership of sorts with Geller, and I offered what so far has been the only possibility based on anything other than pure speculation and argumentation based on an excluded middle.

Second, you said you were going to ask Randi directly, "next time I get the chance." Presuming that you can only do one thing at a time, why are you responding to me rather than PMing Randi? If you can do two or more things at once, why don't you ask him while you're at the keyboard?

Or, and here's a really radical idea, rather than base your arguments on pure ignorance, why don't you ask Angel, himself, why he's working with Geller? Here's the address: loyal@crissangel.com.

In the meantime, Randi's informed opinion is good enough for me.

SkepticalEd:

Ease on out and let others who want to discuss the subject not be subjected to your interference. This is not a scientific forum, we are not scientists, take a break!

This is a forum that welcomes opposing opinions. It is not a fan site.

BTW, you're wrong. This is a scientific forum. JREF is dedicated to promoting critical thinking and the scientific method (all from http://www.randi.org/jref/index.html). That this forum is on the internet does not nullify the underlying philosophy and goals. Arguments follow rules and are based on evidence. Proportionately few people here are scientists, although there are a pretty fair number, as well as doctors, lawyers, law enforcement and other professionals (not to mention many professional and amateur magicians).

I suggest you learn a little more about where you are before you start trying to throw your weight around.
 
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To those here who criticise Criss for appearing on the show, if you did a little research then you would know that he is on the show as a skeptic, and he would make it very obvious on the air. It's even been published that he will try to debunk some of those who claim there that they have supernatural powers.

I's easy to attack people and call them "sells outs" or whatever, but at least have something to back it up with.
 
Thanks, that's good to know DJM
(by the way, we have the same initials, so every time I see your sig, I have a brief moment of thinking - 'hey, I never wrote that!')

I've only seen what's on the JREF so far - as I am in the UK, I'm not even sure if we'll be getting the show here any time soon - I hope that we will. As I've said previously, I do like Angel & I'll watch anything he does (even if he's not as good as my main man, Derren Brown! ;-) I would be really sorry if he abandoned his skeptical stance.

I wait with baited breath...
 
Has Randi actually said he is "disgusted" with the forum? Well, I'm truly surprised and sorry to hear that - personally, I find it one of the saner places on the internet to hang out & I recommend it to friends all the time. But if he is so disgusted, I guess its closure must be imminent since it is his forum.

First, he said it to me, or words to that effect, in two private conversations (while we were waiting to debark from the first cruise, and again in the car on the way to his Vermont lecture), so I may have been indiscreet in mentioning it. OTOH, there were others present both times and he said nothing about not repeating it.

I don't recall his words, verbatim, but the tenor was that he's generally of the opinion the forum isn't pulling its weight in promoting or reflecting the Foundation's goals. That's why the forum has to be pretty much self-supporting (ie the Forum requires donations separate from those to the Foundation). I believe the forum will continue so long as it can be perceived to have some educational value, but posts such as SkepticalEd's to me, above (the post numbers aren't displayed during composition, but it was made at 9:46), and his attitude, are not helping.

ETA: Post #47.
 
Just to be clear.. there has been no mandate handed down that "the forum must be self-supporting." This is not the case, however the forum is very expensive (it costs more than the academic scholarship program, for example), and we need help to sustain it.

That said, the JREF and Randi recognize the forum as one of our most valuable resources.
 
Please quote the passage where I said that, or said that Randi said it.

Ok...

Originally Posted by DeVega
I so hope this show is going to de-bunk Geller (yet again!)

Actually, if it doesn't, it means Angel has sold out on any respect he has for skepticism.

Then you said...

No, it doesn't.

Randi talked about this briefly during the dinner after his Vermont lecture. Apparently, the answer is simply that Angel is a babe in the woods when it comes to business, contracts, negotiations and such. In short, he's no match for Geller off the stage.

Now please, try to tell us you didn't say what you said...

People have been guessing why Angel went into a partnership of sorts with Geller, and I offered what so far has been the only possibility based on anything other than pure speculation and argumentation based on an excluded middle.

No one has said your/Randi's explanation is not exactly what happened. What we've been saying (at least I have) is that such an excuse does not dismiss the charge that Angel has "sold out" wrt to skepticism, if he willingly participates in a show that portrays Uri Geller as a genuine psychic without any skeptical counterpoint. If you disagree with that, please explain why.

Second, you said you were going to ask Randi directly, "next time I get the chance." Presuming that you can only do one thing at a time, why are you responding to me rather than PMing Randi? If you can do two or more things at once, why don't you ask him while you're at the keyboard?

Randi's emails tend to be short, and this is an issue that I'd like to discuss with him in some detail. I speak with him fairly regularly and will ask him next time I see him.

Or, and here's a really radical idea, rather than base your arguments on pure ignorance, why don't you ask Angel, himself, why he's working with Geller? Here's the address: loyal@crissangel.com.

No thanks, but feel free to do it yourself and receive a form response by some lackey.

In the meantime, Randi's informed opinion is good enough for me.

Are you dense? No one is arguing with Randi's opinion as to why Angel is participating. But the explanation that Angel lacks any business acumen (an explanation YOU put forth, using Randi's words to bolster your opinion) is not a sufficient reason (IMO) to give Angel a pass if he ends up lending credibilty to Uri Geller, which is what we are dicussing.
 
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Well, on a more positive note....

This thread started with a link to one of Chriss Angel's Mindfreak episodes that exposes scams and psychics.

More recently, we've all seen ads for the Angel/Geller show Phenomenon on NBC.

Wouldn't it be cool if one of the reasons Angel agreed to be on Phenomenon is he's actually going to use footage from it in his next "Sucker" episode of Mindfreak? He could easily have a camera crew working backstage without arousing Geller's suspicions that anything was going on.

Yeah, I know, doubtful. For one thing, A&E (where Mindfreak airs) is a Disney property, and Phenomenon is on NBC, a Disney competitor. And there seems to be no overlap in production companies between the two, according to IMDB.

We can dream, though.
 
Penn and Teller don't use camera edits to create tricks,Angel does.The example you gave of P&T was a stunt and they revealed it to be so.If Angel owned up to editing after his illusions that would be okay.He doesn't.
WHen Penn drove the truck over Teller it was stated from outset a number of choices as to what effect was.

According to Penn and Angel, Angel doesn't use camera tricks. Listen to Penn interview with Angel, specifically, the mp3 I have that discusses this is The Penn Jillette Radio Show from 2006.02.07 . Also it should be pointed out that Penn and Teller were accused of "camera" tricks on their TV shows as well. On Angel's DVD he reveals some of his illusions if your curious.

What is your evidence Angel does? A lot of people think they know how some illusions are done, but really don't.
 
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According to Penn and Angel, Angel doesn't use camera tricks. Listen to Penn interview with Angel, specifically, the mp3 I have that discusses this is The Penn Jillette Radio Show from 2006.02.07 . Also it should be pointed out that Penn and Teller were accused of "camera" tricks on their TV shows as well. On Angel's DVD he reveals some of his illusions if your curious.

What is your evidence Angel does? A lot of people think they know how some illusions are done, but really don't.

Those effects are done with camera tricks and stooges. Just for an exmaple, I can give you plenty more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRdv_VNPe7g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRR30Tll6wY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yf4EaDtbBEk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfg1SCHKwp0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47pRIniVg1Y


The evidence is in those videos, if you actually pay attention.
 
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