Bigfoot - The Patterson-Gimlin Film

[William Parcher]

Why would they put this photo up in support of the PGF being real? Carelessness? Hoping we wouldn't notice? Other?

This is the kind of person Meldrum is when he analyzes and writes about Bigfoot. It doesn't take much curious inquiry to notice that Jeff is not a very visually observant person. He is a smart man and with excellent use of applied imagination. The underlying and obvious problem is that Jeff Meldrum firmly believes that a creature exists that does not exist. Everything goes bad from that point onwards. He can't help himself when he looks at Blockfoot and instead sees Bigfoot. Once Meldrum decided to believe in Bigfoot and start doing 'Bigfoot science', he took a particular fork in the road. He has no choice now other than to evaluate the secondary evidence for Bigfoot and then proceed to argue that at least some of that evidence really did come from a Bigfoot. He is painted into a corner of his own making. He is fully convinced that he had a Bigfoot encounter once when he was camping, and he is fully convinced that the PGF shows a Bigfoot and we have castings and photos of her actual tracks made in sand.

Critics generally give Meldrum a failing grade because he does not properly deal with alternative explanations. Many are dismissed out of hand or simply ignored. Maybe he is so convinced that he is unable to recognize oddities such as the Blockfoot and the improbable ankle/heel configuration.

Meldrum's book only works towards affirmation of Bigfoot when the reader stops their own investigative research, and simply regards the book as a near complete reference in itself. If you start to dig into just what Meldrum is evaluating it becomes obvious that he's got a heavy bias thing going on. At the end of the day, Meldrum believes that Patterson and Gimlin told a true story. Anyone who thinks that the PGF is a hoax has got to ask themselves why smart guy Jeff thinks it's authentic.

 

[LTC8K6]

There was an anthropologist on a DiscoveryChannel episode of ' Best Evidence ' who said the mid-tarsal-bend and a human-like big toe on the same foot, just didn't make sense.

Esteban Sarmiento?

 

[LTC8K6]

Meldrum also thinks bigfoots toes can grasp things like our fingers can.

Rather than simply an enlarged human foot, Meldrum said, the Sasquatch foot displays a unique combination of recognizably different anatomic features to solve the problem of two-footed locomotion. The result is a proportionally wider, flatter appendage with long, flexible toes and a spring-loaded, ape-like hinge in place of our stiff arch. "This animal's little toe is about the same length as my little finger," he said, holding his hand up against the side of one of his casts. "This toe probably has the same grasping ability as my finger, too."

 

[LTC8K6]

Esteban Sarmiento?

Nope, David Begun I believe.

 

[LTC8K6]

http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/anthropology/Faculty/Begun/begunSciAm.pdf

Includes an obvious fake print found in Coos Bay, OR.

 

[manofthesea]

Its more complicated. First of all, you have to define "gigantism", for example. Would you consider mastodons as giants? If the answer is yes, then I pose the following questions: Why? Are elephants giants also? Why?


Large sizes can be attained in the absence of competition and in the absence of predation. In some cases even in islands. As examples, I offer Amblyrhiza Inundata and the komodo dragon.

Large sizes are quite often associated with adaptation to a restrict set of conditions- an elevated level of specialization. This fact quite probably is in direct contradiction with the commonly accepted speculation that bigfeet (assuming they are real) are generalistic creatures. Large sizes and elevated specialization levels also render a species more vulnerable to environmental changes and eventually extinction. Here we have some extra issues when it comes to the plausiblity of the creature.


Bigfoot healers?

This put, interspecies disease transmission is tricky, very tricky... Some cross the barrier, some do not. Not to mention that you are supposing that we transmit some diseases to the animals, but the opposite path seems to have been forgotten.

The most implausible issue with this idea is that there are sighting reports at areas that are not exactly the PNW's savage unreachable wildernesses...


So what? People disappear at cities too! Some cryptocritters are responsible?

Have you ever considered the many causes for the disappearance of people in the wildernesses? There are so many already that adding such an extraordinary new one is not needed at all. And what are the actual numbers? Is there a match with the areas with a higher ammount of (supposed) bigfoot ativity?


Mine was sincere, too...

Are elephants and mastodons of equal physical stature? Then again, take for example kodiak bears, who are massive. And moose, and bison. Are they not giant for their species?

The healers I mention were just theoretical, used to point to the difficulty that bigfeet would have trying to deal with a human disease.

I'm referring to people who have vanished while in the PNW. People vanishing in the city are the responsibility of local police (might as well blame bigfoot).

I'm not the computer whiz, I'm the woo. You know how to search the web, find out the stats for missing people in the PNW while hiking, fishing, and hunting. Not to mention rural people, also.

 

[Correa Neto]

Drew,
I think Correa Neto addressed this a while back.. I'll try to dig up the relevant posts..
He showed how the mechanics of such a foot would be very inefficient .

...snip...

The whole argument can be summarized by these two points and the following pics:
1. Mid-tarsal breaks do not allow efficient energy transmition when it comes to bipedal locomotion and are extra wear points. For a heavy bipedal creature which frequently cover long distances they would be an evolutionary disadvantage.

2. Flexible feet of real apes have big toes at positions that are very different from what can be seen at alleged bigfeet footprints. These footprints display much more similarity to those of apes with rigid feet (genus Homo).

Here are the original posts for a more detailed discussion:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1302694&postcount=426
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1305479&postcount=447
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1305772&postcount=452
LAL's reasonings can be found by scrolling up or down.

LAL sent the argument to Meldrum via BFF, and here's his discussion:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1485961&postcount=3025

And here's my reply:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1486339&postcount=3043

Dang! Some of this stuff is older than my son!

 

[manofthesea]

Large sizes can be attained in the absence of competition and in the absence of predation. In some cases even in islands. As examples, I offer Amblyrhiza Inundata and the komodo dragon.

Large sizes are quite often associated with adaptation to a restrict set of conditions- an elevated level of specialization. This fact quite probably is in direct contradiction with the commonly accepted speculation that bigfeet (assuming they are real) are generalistic creatures. Large sizes and elevated specialization levels also render a species more vulnerable to environmental changes and eventually extinction. Here we have some extra issues when it comes to the plausiblity of the creature.




Mine was sincere, too...

I have to take issue with this. Are you saying the komodo dragon suffered gigantism after arriving on that tiny island? And because of lack of predation?

 

[William Parcher]

You know how to search the web, find out the stats for missing people in the PNW while hiking, fishing, and hunting. Not to mention rural people, also.

What good will that data be? Nothing could be attributed to Bigfoot outside of a wild guess. Killed by a elk but never found? Sure, why not?

The important data is on people who have been injured by Bigfoot and are not missing persons. Doesn't anyone ever stumble out of the woods with an arm torn off by Bigfoot? A non-fatal mauling leaving Bigfoot DNA in their wounds? No such data exists. Apparently either Bigfoot does not exist, or it never ever harms anyone.

 

[manofthesea]

What good will that data be? Nothing could be attributed to Bigfoot outside of a wild guess. Killed by a elk but never found? Sure, why not?

The important data is on people who have been injured by Bigfoot and are not missing persons. Doesn't anyone ever stumble out of the woods with an arm torn off by Bigfoot? A non-fatal mauling leaving Bigfoot DNA in their wounds? No such data exists. Apparently either Bigfoot does not exist, or it never ever harms anyone.

I believe PNW wildnerness data on missing persons would be vital. Put it on a grid. And it could be used for comparisons to other wilderness areas.

(Got a ticket on teh way to work today, so I turned around to take the day off. I work in traffic, repairing signals, so a nice relaxing day of internet squabbles is just what I need. )

 

[bruto]

I believe PNW wildnerness data on missing persons would be vital. Put it on a grid. And it could be used for comparisons to other wilderness areas.

(Got a ticket on teh way to work today, so I turned around to take the day off. I work in traffic, repairing signals, so a nice relaxing day of internet squabbles is just what I need. )

Well, since it's your theory, and your day off, why not give it a try yourself? I'd love to see some data.

 

[Correa Neto]

Are elephants and mastodons of equal physical stature? Then again, take for example kodiak bears, who are massive. And moose, and bison. Are they not giant for their species?

Well, they are not giants for their species... A Kodiak bear may be a giant for a black bear, but not necessarily for another Kodiak bear, got it?

As for mastodons, they were, if I'm not mistaken, about the same size of an elephant but heavier-built.

The healers I mention were just theoretical, used to point to the difficulty that bigfeet would have trying to deal with a human disease.

OK, but still you are left with the fact that nothing indicates human diseases can be transmitted to bigfoot (assuming they exist) and vice-versa. Its just an speculation!

I'm not the computer whiz, I'm the woo. You know how to search the web, find out the stats for missing people in the PNW while hiking, fishing, and hunting. Not to mention rural people, also.

I'll search it only if you tell me why I should do the research you should do to back your own reasoning. You made a speculation (bigfeet may be the cause of some missing people), its your responsability to seek what's needed to back it or not.

Roger Knight's attempt to shift the burden of proof from the claimant to the skeptic flawed, BTW...

 

[Correa Neto]

I have to take issue with this. Are you saying the komodo dragon suffered gigantism after arriving on that tiny island? And because of lack of predation?

Yep.
And lack of competition.

There was an open niche since no predators such as tigers or leopards were around and there were no smaller predators that could threaten the lizzard's offspring. Standard monitor lizzard evolved to Komodo dragons.

In Australia, the evolution of megalania probably was a bit different, since there were other predators there. Assuming, of course, megalania actually competed with marsupial predators instead of having their own niche.

 

[manofthesea]

What good will that data be? Nothing could be attributed to Bigfoot outside of a wild guess. Killed by a elk but never found? Sure, why not?

The important data is on people who have been injured by Bigfoot and are not missing persons. Doesn't anyone ever stumble out of the woods with an arm torn off by Bigfoot? A non-fatal mauling leaving Bigfoot DNA in their wounds? No such data exists. Apparently either Bigfoot does not exist, or it never ever harms anyone.

I really don't want to offend the families involved, but what exactly happened to the three mountaineers on Mt. Hood last year? Didn't one of them make a call from near summit? From what I recall, the one victim that was found nearly did have his arm torn off.

 

[William Parcher]

I believe PNW wildnerness data on missing persons would be vital. Put it on a grid.

Vital for what? You would somehow link this data to Bigfoot?

 

[manofthesea]

Yep.
And lack of competition.

There was an open niche since no predators such as tigers or leopards were around and there were no smaller predators that could threaten the lizzard's offspring. Standard monitor lizzard evolved to Komodo dragons.

In Australia, the evolution of megalania probably was a bit different, since there were other predators there. Assuming, of course, megalania actually competed with marsupial predators instead of having their own niche.

I'll buy that. Now what about our grizzlies, moose, and bison? Are there sizes natural in comparison to their same species?

 

[LTC8K6]

Bigfoot is eating people?

 

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

Correa Neto:

I agree with you about how kaiju movies and old gorilla movies offer a lot of insights about costuming. It's a shame that people are so quick to write thenm off as being "cheap" and "fake-looking" without paying close attention to them. Judging from stills I've seen online, a 1941 movie called "The Monster and the Girl" had an almost perfect-looking gorilla costume. If they had taken that design and did a little more tinkering around, they could've had "Gorillas in the Mist" style realism decades ago!

Oh, and that Spectreman video was hilarious; great find!

 

[historian]

A bigfoot killed a trapper, after the trapper shot at the Bigfoot, in Canada I believe. His partner made it out alive.

A young Quinault Indian shot at and believed that he wounded a Bigfoot, at least 20 years ago. Within only a few days, the Indian became sick. His condition rapidly deteriorated until he went to see a doctor. The doctor could do nothing for him, and expected him to die shortly. So the elders of the tribe took the sick Indian back out to where he had shot the Bigfoot and performed a ceremony asking forgiveness. Apparently this did the trick as the Indian recovered and is alive today to tell the story.

It takes no more than 2 days for a Bigfoot to find where you live, from my own experiences. They may then stay in the vicinity or camp out inside your home in another dimension and phase, depending on whether they like you or not. One of their favorite tricks is to camp outside your bedroom and eavesdrop on your dreams at night. If they don't like what you are dreaming about, then they slap the outside wall of your bedroom and wake you up.

 

[AtomicMysteryMonster]

William Parcher:

I was paraphrasing what Dr. Krantz claimed Roger Patterson did to get some footage of himself casting prints. Knowing Patterson's artistic skill, it's not hard for me to imagine him draw some prints in the dirt and then digging with his hands and/or tools. However, I'd only imagine him doing it as a one-off way to make a few tracks to film rather than using it to create a fake trackway. Fake feet are the best way to go for hoaxing those.

It is also possible that Patterson was lying to Krantz. After all, it'd be extremely suspicious for him to admit to having giant fake feet after the Bluff Creek incident...