Flight 175 plane speed challenged

So the plane was tracked on RADAR right up to the WTC and disappeared just as people witnessed a plane that was identified by the people who flew the plane, but it's not flight 175. That would mean that flight 175 managed to evade RADAR and was not seen, while some other plane that did hit the WTC happened to be on the same exact path at the same exact time and yet it wasn't on RADAR and no one saw flight 175 which was in the exact same location.

Where can I get some of these drugs?
 
NYCEMT86 said:
You should contact a local ATC and ask him or her how its possible to track a plane with its transponder shut off, because from my knowledge all it does is shut off the plane information but the radar continues to track its path, speed, and altitude such as any radar does. ATC aren't amateurs, they handles thousands of planes each day, I think they know what they are doing when tracking a plane and the process of elimination to properly identify Flight 175 even with its transponder off.
Click to expand...


UA175's transponder was never turned off, it simply changed code.

Of course zensmack89's "switcheroo 767" plan is blown out of the water because the controllers handling UA175 were looking for AA11 at the time that UA175 was hijacked. AA11's transponder was turned off (at 0821EDT). The controllers at New York Centre had their primary radar turned on to find AA11 (in my previous post I mistakenly called it secondary radar). Had another 767 at a different altitude matched UA175, and they did a transponder "swap", because primary was activated it would have been blatantly obvious to a controller.

In any event, we have eyewitness testimony on UA175 that the five Islamic Radicals hijacked the flight, killed the pilots, and took control of the aircraft. So the switcheroo is only possible if 1) it was an Al Qaeda plot and they were also flying the second shadow 767 or 2) the phone calls were fake and the passengers on UA175 were in on the plot.

Both of these are plain stupid.

Once the hijacking of UA175 was known (after transponder change) that flight was watched by a dozen people at New York ARTCC right up until it hit 1,000ft, in close proximity to the WTC. Meanwhile, controllers in the tower at Newark International had picked up the same contact, first on radar and then visually, tracking it to impact with the WTC.

There is no point between UA175's hijacking at impact of the WTC2 at which a swap could have occurred and been unnoticed.

-Gumboot
 
Jonnyclueless said:
new law of physics everybody. Unless Zen is there to handle or witness something in person, it does not exist.
Click to expand...


"If a tree falls in the forest and no one in the group you're currently conversing with actually heard it, then it didn't make a sound!"
 
I think that everyone ever convicted of a crime via the use of DNA should be let go because I bet you that the police never had that DNA tested at the scene of the crime and how do we know that they didn't switch it between their claimed collection at the crime scene and their testing it at the lab. In fact anyone convicted of a crime should be released because we have no way of knowing that any of their so called evidence was collected where they claim it was. Escpeically anyone convicted based on evidence, testimony or the prosecution having any connection to any of the following groups or people...

Gravy said:
1,200 people who worked the flight 93 crash scene
40,000 people who worked the piles at Ground Zero
55 FBI Evidence Response Teams at Fresh Kills in New York
7,000+ FBI Agents
8,000+ people who worked the scene at the Pentagon
ACE Bermuda Insurance
AEMC Construction
AIG Insurance
Air Traffic Control System Command Center in Washington
Alexandria VA Fire & Rescue
Allianz Global Risks
American Airlines
American Concrete Institute
American Institute of Steel Construction
American Red Cross
Applied Biosystems Inc.
Applied Research Associates
Arlington County Emergency Medical Services
Arlington County Fire Department
Arlington County Sheriff's Department
Arlington VA Police Department
Armed Forces Institute of Pathology
Armed Forces Institute of Technology Federal Advisory Committee
ARUP USA
Atlantic Heydt Inc.
Bechtel
Berlin Fire Department
Big Apple Wrecking
Blanford & Co.
Bode Technology Group
Bovis Inc.
Building and Construction Trades Council
Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms
C-130H crew in D.C. & Shanksville
Cal Berkeley Engineering Dept.
California Incident Management Team
Carter Burgess Engineering
Celera Genomics
Centers for Disease Control
Central City Fire Department
Central Intelligence Agency
Cleveland Airport control tower
Columbia University Department of Civil Engineering and Engineering Mechanics
Congressional Joint Intelligence Committee
Consolidated Edison Company
Construction Technologies Laboratory
Controlled Demolitions Inc.
Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat
Counterterrorism and Security Group
CTL Engineering
D.H. Griffin Wrecking Co. Inc.
DeSimone Consulting Engineers
Dewhurst MacFarlane &Partners
DiSalvo Ericson Engineering
District of Columbia Fire & Rescue
DOD Honor Guard, Pentagon
D'Onofrio Construction
E-4B National Airborne Operations Center crews
Edwards and Kelcey Engineering
Engineering Systems, Inc.
Environmental protection Agency
Exponent Failure Analysis Associates
EYP Mission CriticalFacilities
Fairfax County Fire & Rescue
Falcon 20 crew in PA
Family members who received calls from victims on the planes
FBI Evidence Recovery Teams
Federal Aviation Administration
Federal Bureau of Investigation
Federal Emergency Management Agency
Federal Insurance Co.
FEMA 68-Person Urban Search and Rescue Teams: Arizona Task Force 1, California Task Force 1, California Task Force 3, California Task Force 7, Colorado Task Force 1, Fairfax Task Force 1, Florida Task Force 1, Florida Task Force 2, Maryland Task Force 1, Massachusetts Task Force 1, Metro Dade/Miami, Nebraska Task Force 1, New Mexico Task Force 1, New York Task Force 1, Pennsylvania Task Force 1, Tennessee Task Force 1, Texas Task Force 1, Utah Task Force 1, Virginia Task Force 1, Virginia Task Force 2, Washington Task Force 1
FEMA Disaster Field Office
FEMA Emergency Response Team
FEMA Urban Search and Rescue Incident Support Team-Advanced 3
Fire Department of New York
Fort Myer Fire Department
Fourteen teams of search dogs from Oregon
French Urban Search & Rescue Task Force
Friedens Volunteer Fire Department
Gateway Demolition
Gene Code Forensics
Georgia Tech Engineering Dept.
Gilsanz Murray Steficek LLP
GMAC Financing
Goldstein Associates Consulting Engineers
Guy Nordenson Associates
HAKS Engineers
Hampton-Clarke Inc.
HHS National Medical Response Team
HLW International Engineering
Hooversville Rescue Squad.
Hooversville Volunteer Fire Department
Hoy Structural Services
Hughes Associates, Inc
Hugo Neu Schnitzer East
hundreds of ironworkers, some of whom built the WTC
Hundreds of New York City Police Department Detectives
Industrial Risk Insurers
Institute for Civil Infrastructure Systems
International Association of Fire Chiefs
International Union of Operating Engineers Locals 14 & 15
J.R. Harris & Company
Karl Koch Steel Consulting Inc.
KCE Structural Engineers
Koch Skanska
Koutsoubis, Alonso Associates
Laboratory Corp. of America
Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory
Leslie E. Robertson Associates
LIRo Engineering
Listie Volunteer Fire Company
Lockwood Consulting
M.G. McLaren Engineering
Masonry Society
Mazzocchi Wrecking Inc.
Metal Management Northeast
Metropolitan Airport Authority Fire Unit
Miami-Dade Urban Search & Rescue
Military District of Washington Search & Rescue Team
Montgomery County Fire & Rescue
Mueser Rutledge Consulting Engineers
Murray Engineering
Myriad Genetic Laboratories Inc.
National Center for Biotechnology Informatics
National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States
National Council of Structural Engineers Associations
National Disaster Medical System
National Emergency Numbering Association
National Fire Protection Association
National Guard in D.C., New York, and Pennsylvania
National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST)
National Institutes of Health Human Genome Research Institute
National Law Enforcement and Security Institute
National Military Command Center
National Reconnaissance Office
National Response Center
National Science Foundation Division of Civil and Mechanical Systems
National Security Agency
National Transportation Safety Board
National Wrecking
Natural Hazards Research and Applications Information Center
New Jersey State Police
New York City Department of Buildings WTC Task Force
New York City Department of Design and Construction
New York City Department of Environmental Protection
New York City Office of Emergency Management
New York City Office of the Chief Medical Examiner
New York City Police Department Aviation Unit
New York City Police Department Emergency Services Unit
New York Daily News
New York Flight Control Center
New York Newsday
New York Port Authority Construction Board
New York Port Authority Police
New York State Emergency Management Office
New York State Police Forensic Services
New York Times
North American Aerospace Defense Command
Northeast Air Defense Sector Commanders and crew
Numerous bomb-sniffing dogs
Numerous Forensic Anthropologists
Numerous Forensic Dentists
Numerous Forensic Pathologists
Numerous Forensic Radiologists
NuStats
Occupational Safety and Health Administration
Office of Emergency Preparedness
Office of Strategic Services
Orchid Cellmark
Parsons Brinckerhoff Engineering
Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection
Pennsylvania Department of Health and Human Services
Pennsylvania Region 13 Metropolitan Medical Response Group
Pennsylvania State Funeral Directors Association
Pennsylvania State Police
Pentagon Defense Protective Service
Pentagon Helicopter Crash Response Team
Pentagon Medical Staff
Pentagon Renovation Team
Phillips & Jordan, Inc.
Port of New York and New Jersey Authority
Pro-Safety Services
Protec
Public Entity Risk Institute
Purdue University Engineering Dept.
Robert Silman Associates Structural Engineers
Rolf Jensen & Associates, Inc
Rosenwasser/Grossman Consulting Engineers
Royal SunAlliance/Royal Indemnity
SACE Prime Power Assessment Teams
SACE Structural Safety Engineers and Debris Planning and Response Teams
Salvation Army Disaster Services
several EPA Hazmat Teams
several FBI Hazmat Teams
several Federal Disaster Medical Assistance Teams
several Federal Disaster Mortuary (DMORT) Teams
Severud Associates Consulting Engineers
Shanksville Volunteer Fire Company
Silverstein Properties
Simpson Gumpertz & Heger Engineers
Skidmore, Owings & Merrill LLP
Skilling Ward Magnusson Barkshire
Society of Fire Protection Engineers
Somerset Ambulance Association
Somerset County Coroner's Office
Somerset County Emergency Management Agency
Somerset Volunteer Fire Department
St. Paul/Travelers Insurance
State of Pennsylvania Emergency Management Agency
Stoystown Volunteer Fire Company
Structural Engineering Institute of the American Society of Civil Engineers (SEI/ASCE)
Structural Engineers Association of New York
Superstructures Engineering
Swiss Re America Insurance
Telephone operators who took calls from passengers in the hijacked planes
Teng & Associates
Thornton-Tomasetti Group, Inc.
TIG Insurance
Tokio Marine & Fire
Transportation Safety Administration
Tully Construction
Twin City Fire Insurance
Tylk Gustafson Reckers Wilson Andrews Engineering
U.S. Army Corps of Engineers
Underwriters Laboratories
Union Wrecking
United Airlines
United States Air National Guard
United States Fire Administration
United States Secret Service
United Steelworkers of America
University of Sheffield Fire Engineering Research
US Army Reserves of Virginia Beach Fairfax County and Montgomery County
US Army’s Communications-Electronics Command
US Department of Defense
US Department of Justice
US Department of State
Virginia Beach Fire Department
Virginia Department of Emergency Management
Virginia State Police
Vollmer Associates Engineers
Washington Post
Weeks Marine
Weidlinger Associates
Weiskopf & Pickworth Engineering
Westmoreland County Emergency Management Agency
Whitney Contracting
Willis Group Holdings
WJE Structural Engineers
Worcester Polytechnic Institute
World Trade Center security staff
XL Insurance
Yonkers Contracting
York International
Zurich Financial
Zurich Re Risk Engineering

Conspiracists: are these people liars, dupes, or shills?

Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl, Ph.D., P.E.
Alan Rosa, P.E., S.E.
Allyn Kilsheimer, P.E.
Amit Bandyopadhyay, S.E.
Amy Zelson Mundorff
Anamaria Bonilla, S.E.
Andrew McConnell, S.E.
Andrew Mueller-Lust, S.E.
Andrew Pontecorvo, P.E.
Anthony Kirk US&R Structural Specialist
Anthony W. Chuliver, S.E.
Antoine E. Naaman, Ph.D.
Antranig M. Ouzoonian, P.E.
Arlan Dobson, FEMA Region 2 DAS
August Domel, Ph.D., S.E., P.E.
Bernie Denke US&R Structural Specialist
Bill Cote
Bill Coulbourne, P.E., S.E.
Bob Gray (I.U.O.E.)
Bonnie Manley, P.E., S.E.
Boris Hayda, P.E., S.E.
Brian Lyons
Brian McElhatten, S.E.
Brian Smith (Col.), Chief Deputy Medical Examiner, Dover AFB
Charles Hirsch, M.D.
Charles J. Carter, AISC
Charles Thornton, P.E.
Charlie Vitchers
Christopher E. Marrion, P.E.
Christopher M. Hewitt, AISC
Chuck Guardia, S.E.
D. Stanton Korista, P.E., S.E.
Dan Doyle (IW 40)
Dan Eschenasy, P.E., S.E.
Daniel A. Cuoco, P.E
Daniele Veneziano, P.E.
David Davidowitz, ConEd
David Hoy, S.E.
David Leach, USACE
David M. Parks, ME
David Peraza, P.E., S.E.
David Ranlet
David Schomburg
David Sharp, S.E.
David T. Biggs, P.E.
Dean Koutsoubis, S.E.
Dean Tills, P.E.
Delbert Boring, P.E.
Dennis Clark (IST)
Dennis Dirkmaat, Ph.D.
Dennis Mileti, Ph.D.
Dick Posthauer, S.E.
Donald Friedman, P.E.
Donald O. Dusenberry, P.E.
Ed McGinley, P.E.
Ed Plaugher, Chief, Arlington FD
Edward A. Flynn, Arlington Police Chief
Edward Depaola, S.E.
Edward M. DePaola, P.E.
Edward Stinnette, Chief, FCFD
Fahim Sadek, P.E., S.E.
Farid Alfawakhiri Ph.D.
FDNY Battalion Chief Frank Vallebuono
FDNY Captain Anthony Varriale
FDNY Chief Frank Cruthers
FDNY Chief Frank Fellini
FDNY Chief Joseph Callan
FDNY Chief of Operations Daniel Nigro
FDNY Deputy Chief Nick Visconti
FDNY Deputy Chief Peter Hayden
FDNY Firefighter Sam Melisi
Francis J. Lombardi, P.E.
Frank Gayle, Sc.D
Gary Keith, V.P. NFPA
Gary Steficek, S.E.
Gary Suson
Gary Tokle, Asst. VP, NFPA
George Tamaro, P.E., S.E.
Gerald Haynes, P.E.
Gerald Wellman US&R Structural Specialist
Guy Colonna, P.E., NFPA
Guylene Proulx, Ph.D.
H.S. Lew, P.E., S.E.
Harold E. Nelson, P.E., FSFP.E.
Harry Martin, AISC
J. David Frost, Ph.D., P.E.
Jack Brown Deputy Chief Loudoun County (Va.) Fire Rescue Department
Jack Messagno
James A. Rossberg, P.E.
James Chastain US&R Structural Specialist
James H. Fahey, S.E.
James Lord, FSFP.E.
James Milke, Ph.D., P.E.
Jan Szumanski, IUOE
Jason Averill, FSFP.E.
Jeffrey Hartman, S.E.
Jim Abadie
Joel Meyerowitz
John Gross, Ph.D., P.E.
John Hodgens, FDNY (ret.)
John J. Zils, P.E., S.E.
John L. Gross, Ph.D., P.E.
John Lekstutis, P.E.
John M. Hanson, Ph.D, P.E.
John McArdle NYPD/ESU (DTC)
John Moran, NYPD/ESU (NTC)
John O'Connell
John Odermatt (NYC OEM)
John Ruddy, P.E., S.E.
John Ryan, PAPD
John W. Fisher, P.E.
Jon Magnusson, P.E., S.E.
Jonathan Barnett, Ph.D
Joo-Eun Lee P.E., S.E.
Joseph C. Gehlen, P.E., S.E.
Jozef Van Dyck, P.E.
Juan Paulo Morla, S.E.
Karl Koch III
Kaspar Willam, P.E., S.E.
Kenneth Holden
Kent Watts
Kevin Malley, FDNY (ret.)
Kevin Terry, S.E.
Kurt Gustafson, P.E., S.E.
Larry Keating (IW 40)
Lawrence C. Bank, Ph.D., P.E.
Lawrence Griffis, P.E.
Leo J. Titus, P.E.
Leonard M. Joseph, P.E.
Leslie E. Robertson, P.E., S.E.
Long T. Phan, Ph.D., P.E.
Lou Mendes, P.E., S.E.
Louis Errichiello, S.E.
Manny Velivasakis, P.E.
Mark Blair
Mark Kucera, USACE
Mark Tamaro, P.E
Mark Volpe, IW 40
Marty Corcoran
Matthew G. Yerkey, P.E., S.E.
Merle E. Brander, P.E.
Mete A. Sozen, Ph.D., S.E.
Michael Burton, P.E.
Michael Dallal
Michael Hessheimer, S.E.
Michael Tylk, P.E., S.E.
Mike Banker, FDNY Capt. (SOC)
Mike Marscio, P.E.
Miroslav Sulc,, P.E., S.E.
Mohammed Ettouney
Morgan Hurley, FSFP.E.
Nestor Iwankiw, Ph.D., P.E.
Nick Carcich
Norman Groner, Ph.D.
Pablo Lopez, P.E., S.E.
Paul A. Bosela, Ph.D., P.E.
Paul F. Mlakar, Ph.D., P.E.
Paul Sledzik
Paul Tertell, P.E.
Pete Bakersky
Peter Chipchase, S.E.
Peter Rinaldi, P.E.
Rajani Nair, S.E.
Ramon Gilsanz, P.E., S.E
Randy Lawson
Raul Maestre, P.E., S.E.
Raymond F. Messer, P.E.
Reidar Bjorhovde, Ph.D., P.E
Richard Bukowski P.E., FSFP.E.
Richard G. Gewain, P.E., S.E.
Richard Gann, Ph.D.
Richard Garlock, P.E., S.E.
Richard Kahler US&R Structural Specialist
Robert C. Sinn, P.E., S.E.
Robert F. Duval (NFPA)
Robert Frances US&R Structural Specialist
Robert J. McNamara, P.E., S.E.
Robert Ratay, Ph.D., P.E., S.E.
Robert Shaler, M.D.
Robert Smilowitz, Ph.D., P.E
Robert Solomon, P.E.
Robert Wills, AISC
Ronald Hamburger, P.E., S.E.
Ronald J. LaMere, P.E.
Ronald Rehm, Ph.D.
Ronald Spadafora, FDNY D.A.C
Ruben M. Zallen, P.E.
Russell "Rusty" Dodge Jr, Asst. Chief, Fort Belvoir FD
S. Shyam Sunder, P.E., S.E.
Saw-Teen See, P.E.
Shankar Nair. P.E., S.E.
Shawn Kelly, Arlington County Fire Marshal
Socrates Ioannides, P.E., S.E.
Sonny Scarff
Stan Murphy, P.E.
Stephen Cauffman
Steve Rasweiler, FDNY B.C. (SOC)
Stuart Foltz, P.E.
Terry Sullivan, Tully
Theodore Galambos, P.E.
Theodore Krauthammer, Ph.D., P.E.
Therese P. McAllister, Ph.D., P.E.
Thomas Hawkins Jr, Chief, AFD
Thomas Schlafly, AISC
Todd Ude, P.E., S.E.
Tom Scarangello, P.E.
Tom Stanton (IST)
Tony Beale, P.E.
Valentine Junker
Venkatesh Kodur, Ph.D., P.E.
Victor Hare, P.E.
Vincent Dunn, FDNY (ret.)
W. Gene Corley, Ph.D., P.E., S.E.
W. Lee Evey
Wallace Miller
William Baker, P.E., S.E
William Grosshandler, Ph.D., ME
William McGuire, P.E.
Willie Quinlan, IW
Zdenek Bazant, Ph.D., S.E.

9/11 Commission & Staff
Thomas H. Kean, Chair
Lee H. Hamilton, Vice Chair
Richard Ben-Veniste
Fred F. Fielding
Jamie S. Gorelick
Slade Gorton
Bob Kerrey
John F. Lehman
Timothy J. Roemer
James R. Thompson

Joanne Accolla
Alexis Albion
Scott Allan
John Azzarello
Caroline Barnes
Warren Bass
Ann Bennett
Mark Bittinger
Madeleine Blot
Antwion Blount
Geoff Brown
Daniel Byman
Dianna Campagna
Sam Caspersen
Melissa Coffey
Lance Cole
Marquittia Coleman
Marco Cordero
Raj De Counsel
George Delgrosso
Gerald L. Dillingham
Thomas Dowling
Steven Dunne
Thomas Eldridge
John Farmer
Alvin Felzenberg
Gordon England
Lorry Fenner
Susan Ginsburg
T. Graham Giusti
Nicole Grandrimo
Doug Greenburg
Barbara Grewe
Elinore Hartz
Len Hawley
Christine Healey
Karen Heitkotter
Walt Hempel
Michael Hurley
Dana Hyde
Michael Jacobson
Bonnie Jenkins
Reginald Johnson
William Johnstone
Stephanie Kaplan
Miles Kara
Janice Kephart-Roberts
Hyon Kim
Christopher Kojm
Katarzyna (Kasia) Kozaczuk
Gordon Lederman
Daniel Leopold
Sarah Linden
Douglas MacEachin
Daniel Marcus
Ernest May
James Miller
Kelly Moore
Charles Pereira
John Raidt
John Roth
Peter Rundlet
Lloyd Salvetti
Kevin Scheid
Kevin Shaeffer
Tracy Shycoff
Dietrich Snell
Jonathan Stull
Lisa Sullivan
John Tamm
Cate Taylor
Yoel Tobin
Emily Walker
Garth Wermter
Serena Wille
Philip Zelikow, Executive Director

The Congressional Joint Inquiry on 9/11
Senate Members
Bob Graham, D - Florida, Chairman
Richard C. Shelby, R - Alabama, Vice Chairman
Carl Levin
Jon Kyl
John D. Rockefeller
James M. Inhofe
Dianne Feinstein
Orrin Hatch
Ron Wyden
Pat Roberts
Richard J. Durbin,
Mike DeWine
EvanBayh
Fred Thompson
John Edwards
Richard Lugar
Barbara Mikulski
Al Cumming, Staff Director
William Duhnke, Minority Staff Director

House Members
Porter J. Goss, Chairman
Nancy Pelosi
Doug Bereuter
Sanford D. Bishop
Michael N. Castle,
Jane Harman
Sherwood L. Boehlert
Gary A. Condit
Jim Gibbons
Tim Roemer
Ray LaHood
Silvestre Reyes
Randy Cunningham
Leonard L. Boswell
Peter Hoekstra,
Collin C. Peterson
Richard Burr
Bud Cramer
Saxby Chambliss
Terry Everett
Timothy R. Sample, Staff Director
Michael W. Sheehy, Democratic Counsel

Staff
Eleanor Hill
Rick Cinquegrana
David Barton
Ann Bennett
Daniel Byman
Michael Davidson
George Ellard
Rahul Gupta
Kay Holt
John Ivicic
Michael Jacobson
Everette Jordan
Miles Kara
John Keefe
Thomas Kelley
Dana Lesemann
Patti Litman
Arthur Menna
Lewis Moon
Patricia Ravalgi
Alonzo Robertson
Robert Rosenwald
Michael Smith
Catherine Williams
Click to expand...
 
Slayhamlet said:
Stop playing the part of an idiot on an internet forum, where you will accomplish absolutely nothing outside of inducing strokes in rational people's brains from pure frustration at your obtuseness (I'm beginning to suspect that's your real goal), and start convincing the the family members of the victims that perished on flights 175 and 11 that their loved ones weren't in fact on those planes.
Click to expand...
God I drove all the way home, ate dinner, skimmed my pool, watched some of the ball game, and you still have no evidence to support your claim.

Why do you bother?
 
flight 175 passenger Lisa Anne Frosts mileage plus card was found in the rubble of the world trade center. Along with part of her hip nearby. Only a complete and utter ***** would continue to troll such nonsense saying there is no evidence that it was flight 175 that hit the south tower.

are you listening Zensmack?

As per the rules, swearing must be completely masked in the public areas of the forum. Also, do not use personal attacks to argue your point.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Lisa Simpson
 
Last edited by a moderator:
NYCEMT86 said:
Wow, I can't ignore this thread anymore.
Click to expand...

Why would you want to miss all the fun?

NYCEMT86 said:
What about Pete Hanson, Brian David Sweeney, Garnet Bailey and Flight attendant Robert Fangman who all made phone calls from flight 175 to loved ones or others?
Click to expand...

What about them? You don’t track a plane by a phone call.

NYCEMT86 said:
This sounds like another Loose Change theory
like their theory on Flight 93.
Click to expand...

Really? Ok.

NYCEMT86 said:
Can you explain the fuselage, parts of an engine and landing gear of flight 175? You bring up Operation Northwoods, how were they able to plant evidence when thousands of people were around? Where are those 58 passengers now? Do you believe they would allow the government to hold them captive for 6 years now?
Click to expand...

Is flight 175 the only plane in the world with a fuselage?

NYCEMT86 said:
You claim that these pilots were amateur...can anybody answer this for me, how many flight hours must you log before you are qualified to get a commercial pilots license? My knowledge of flight is limited to layman, however most of the people who have posted in this thread ARE pilots, who know a thing or two about what you can or cant do in aircraft.
Click to expand...

Did you read the OP and follow the links? There are telephone calls with Boeing where they talk about what a 767 can do at sea level.

NYCEMT86 said:
Zen, this a prime example of your Logorrhoea.
Click to expand...

Ok that's nice. Got any evidence? Of what hit tower that is?

NYCEMT86 said:
You should contact a local ATC and ask him or her how its possible to track a plane with its transponder shut off, because from my knowledge all it does is shut off the plane information but the radar continues to track its path, speed, and altitude such as any radar does. ATC aren't amateurs, they handles thousands of planes each day, I think they know what they are doing when tracking a plane and the process of elimination to properly identify Flight 175 even with its transponder off.
Click to expand...

They trace it by tracking the "skin paint" if the transponder is turned off. That's just the blip on the screen with no identifing code. If two planes are at the same a latitude and longitude but different altitude the blips of the two planes merge on the radar scopes. Flight 175 is thought to have changed not turned off but who is to know for sure with everything going on that day? The same ATC's who aren't amatuers thought flight 77 that hit the Pentagon was a fighter jet at one point. Why didn't they know for sure what it was?
 
Zen, using your logic, I challenge you to prove anything to me. Pick anything in the world, and I can guarantee you that you cannot prove it exists. Give it a try. Since it has already been proven that you are unable to understand how evidence added together works, and do the typical Wooer newbie technique of addressing every issue as a separate and unrelated item. As doing so would put a hole in your technique.
 
ZENSMACK89 said:
I'm not the one making this about an attack on me. People like you are because you have no facts to address the op. Same as always.
Click to expand...

Your replies constitute both misunderstanding of how theories are formulated and verified coupled with a considerable amount of rather curt responses where you act as if you were the judge and jury in a trial.

You are using what I like to call the "Kent Hovind School of Debate" in order to try and discredit claims without actually presenting evidence against them and I hope to illustrate how this works.

This technique takes advantage of the fact that any honest person will always understand there are margins for error in every event and that their own beliefs could be wrong. I, and many other people on this forum could produce lists and lists and lists of evidence which if it existed would provide a strong cause to either believe in a MIHOP or LIHOP theory or at least to re-examine the 'official story'. A debater using this tactic however will either not specify a particular piece of evidence they require or will specify something which is impossible. Kent Hovind's "You can't prove these fossils had kids" is analogous to "You can't prove the fires were this temperature".

This debate tactic primarily and most importantly works by undermining the debate structure. Instead of operating from a level playing field the opponent of the person using this tactic is thrust into the limelight and told 'you must prove your theories in order to reject ours' (While this is not explicit, it is implicit as I hope I can illustrate). The debater in this position is not actually looking to win any debate, they do not intend to make any points which contribute factual value any more than interesting anecdotes that may support a particular theory. Kent Hovind's "These planets spin backwards" is analogous to "WTC7 fell at freefall speed". Their purpose is soley to try and 'prove' to the audience that their opponent's theory is flawed.

In your case you systematically reject any evidence presented as 'not proof'. Of course it is not proof, because you have set the bar of proof so high that no evidence which exists can satisfy it. This is exactly the style Roxdog at LC uses to debate. However, you are not the arbiter of facts and the evidence presented is overwhelming. As responsible critical thinkers it is our job to take a balanced and measured view, to be aware of the amount of evidence that exists for each claim and to judge appropriately. This is not what you are doing here, you are challenging people to amass evidence for their side of a debate which is being done easily and then simply summarily dismissing this evidence as not good enough. You have totally failed to present any evidence of your own and while it is noted that you do not have to have a competing theory to show errors in an existing one you do have to provide evidence to contradict claims. You have done neither.

The best way of course to deal with someone who argues in this fashion is to challenge them to list evidence which can exist and would disprove their point and if they refuse to do so by ignoring them or at least not participating.

Can you provide me with such an example?
 
ZENSMACK89 said:
God I drove all the way home, ate dinner, skimmed my pool, watched some of the ball game, and you still have no evidence to support your claim.

Why do you bother?
Click to expand...

Well that's a good question when you have already handwaved your way past the questionn of what you would accept as evidence. So far you have waved away the rader tracking, the air traffic control, the passanger manifests, the plane and body parts found all over ground zero and the nearby area, including an engine, bits of bone and other grisy items and personal effects from passangers on the plane, the witnesses, the film of a plane in UA colours hitting the building, probably the photo of the plane in UA colours hitting the building, the missing plane itself being missing, the fact that UA says it was their plane, the phone calls from the plane, including one from a passanger to his parents which cut off with a scream of "oh my god" as they watched the plane hit the building live on TV. You demand standards of the investigators that have never been used before (i.e. doing the DNA test at the site in question) and ignore anything you don't like, so yeah, why should we bother to present evidence since you ignore and wave it away and claim that it isn't evidence at all, just like you will do with all of the evidence in this post, if you bother to reply to it.
 
ZENSMACK89 said:
They trace it by tracking the "skin paint" if the transponder is turned off. That's just the blip on the screen with no identifing code. If two planes are at the same a latitude and longitude but different altitude the blips of the two planes merge on the radar scopes.
Click to expand...


What I want to know is, are you lying, or are you simply speaking about things of which you know nothing?

Your above comments are totally false.

Radar tracks are divided into different altitudes, and FAA primary radar can track altitude.



ZENSMACK89 said:
The same ATC's who aren't amatuers thought flight 77 that hit the Pentagon was a fighter jet at one point. Why didn't they know for sure what it was?
Click to expand...

The above is false. You realise that, right? Please provide evidence that anyone ever thought AA77 was a fighter jet.

-Gumboot
 
gumboot said:
UA175's transponder was never turned off, it simply changed code.
Click to expand...

Or another planes transponder was thought to be a changed code of 175. You have no way of knowing. Why would the hijackers turn off the transponders on one plane but change it on another? Did they have different plans?

gumboot said:
Of course zensmack89's "switcheroo 767" plan is blown out of the water because the controllers handling UA175 were looking for AA11 at the time that UA175 was hijacked. AA11's transponder was turned off (at 0821EDT). The controllers at New York Centre had their primary radar turned on to find AA11 (in my previous post I mistakenly called it secondary radar). Had another 767 at a different altitude matched UA175, and they did a transponder "swap", because primary was activated it would have been blatantly obvious to a controller.
Click to expand...

No it's not. There are many planes on a radar screen at any given time especially in the North East. There could have been an object without a transponder at a different altitude following along before any transponder was turned off or changed on 175. You or the ATC have no way of knowing.

gumboot said:
In any event, we have eyewitness testimony on UA175 that the five Islamic Radicals hijacked the flight, killed the pilots, and took control of the aircraft. So the switcheroo is only possible if 1) it was an Al Qaeda plot and they were also flying the second shadow 767 or 2) the phone calls were fake and the passengers on UA175 were in on the plot.
Click to expand...

I never said nothing happen to 175 or that the people on it didn't exist. Something obviously happened to it. But any accounts about what was going down on 175 are no proof of what hit the tower.

gumboot said:
Both of these are plain stupid.
Click to expand...

And both of those are your scenarios not mine thus the stupidity.

gumboot said:
Once the hijacking of UA175 was known (after transponder change)
Click to expand...

It was never known it was assumed to be.

gumboot said:
that flight was watched by a dozen people at New York ARTCC right up until it hit 1,000ft, in close proximity to the WTC.
Click to expand...

There's no proof they were following the correct object. None.

gumboot said:
Meanwhile, controllers in the tower at Newark International had picked up the same contact, first on radar and then visually, tracking it to impact with the WTC.
Click to expand...

This is all after the fact. Without an original code they don't know. That's what the transponder code is for. If they don't need it why do they have it?

gumboot said:
There is no point between UA175's hijacking at impact of the WTC2 at which a swap could have occurred and been unnoticed.
Click to expand...

You have absolutely no way of knowing that.
 
e^n said:
Your replies constitute both misunderstanding of how theories are formulated and verified coupled with a considerable amount of rather curt responses where you act as if you were the judge and jury in a trial.

You are using what I like to call the "Kent Hovind School of Debate" in order to try and discredit claims without actually presenting evidence against them and I hope to illustrate how this works.

This technique takes advantage of the fact that any honest person will always understand there are margins for error in every event and that their own beliefs could be wrong. I, and many other people on this forum could produce lists and lists and lists of evidence which if it existed would provide a strong cause to either believe in a MIHOP or LIHOP theory or at least to re-examine the 'official story'. A debater using this tactic however will either not specify a particular piece of evidence they require or will specify something which is impossible. Kent Hovind's "You can't prove these fossils had kids" is analogous to "You can't prove the fires were this temperature".

This debate tactic primarily and most importantly works by undermining the debate structure. Instead of operating from a level playing field the opponent of the person using this tactic is thrust into the limelight and told 'you must prove your theories in order to reject ours' (While this is not explicit, it is implicit as I hope I can illustrate). The debater in this position is not actually looking to win any debate, they do not intend to make any points which contribute factual value any more than interesting anecdotes that may support a particular theory. Kent Hovind's "These planets spin backwards" is analogous to "WTC7 fell at freefall speed". Their purpose is soley to try and 'prove' to the audience that their opponent's theory is flawed.

In your case you systematically reject any evidence presented as 'not proof'. Of course it is not proof, because you have set the bar of proof so high that no evidence which exists can satisfy it. This is exactly the style Roxdog at LC uses to debate. However, you are not the arbiter of facts and the evidence presented is overwhelming. As responsible critical thinkers it is our job to take a balanced and measured view, to be aware of the amount of evidence that exists for each claim and to judge appropriately. This is not what you are doing here, you are challenging people to amass evidence for their side of a debate which is being done easily and then simply summarily dismissing this evidence as not good enough. You have totally failed to present any evidence of your own and while it is noted that you do not have to have a competing theory to show errors in an existing one you do have to provide evidence to contradict claims. You have done neither.

The best way of course to deal with someone who argues in this fashion is to challenge them to list evidence which can exist and would disprove their point and if they refuse to do so by ignoring them or at least not participating.

Can you provide me with such an example?
Click to expand...

This isn't a thread about how theories are formulated and verified champ. This thread already has an OP did you read it? If you have nothing to offer this thread or aren't interested go start you own.
 
ZENSMACK89 said:
The same ATC's who aren't amatuers thought flight 77 that hit the Pentagon was a fighter jet at one point. Why didn't they know for sure what it was?
Click to expand...

No, they thought it was a military plane because of two reasons. One was the speed, which was excessive for a civilian airliner in that area (in fact illegal) but not for a military plane, the second was that it was unsafe to fly a passanger plane that way, mainly because you are likely to have passangers on board who could be thrown about. They never stated that they thought it was a fighter jet at all, the military does have a lot of other planes (C-130s etc)
 
PhantomWolf said:
1,200 people who worked the flight 93 crash scene
40,000 people who worked the piles at Ground Zero
55 FBI Evidence Response Teams at Fresh Kills in New York
7,000+ FBI Agents
8,000+ people who worked the scene at the Pentagon
ACE Bermuda Insurance
AEMC Construction
AIG Insurance
Air Traffic Control System Command Center in Washington
Alexandria VA Fire & Rescue
Allianz Global Risks
American Airlines
American Concrete Institute
American Institute of Steel Construction
American Red Cross
Applied Biosystems Inc.
Applied Research Associates
Arlington County Emergency Medical Services
Arlington County Fire Department
Arlington County Sheriff's Department
Arlington VA Police Department
Armed Forces Institute of Pathology
Armed Forces Institute of Technology Federal Advisory Committee
ARUP USA
Atlantic Heydt Inc.
Bechtel
Berlin Fire Department
Big Apple Wrecking
Blanford & Co.
Bode Technology Group
Bovis Inc.
Building and Construction Trades Council
Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms
C-130H crew in D.C. & Shanksville
Cal Berkeley Engineering Dept.
California Incident Management Team
Carter Burgess Engineering
Celera Genomics
Centers for Disease Control
Central City Fire Department
Central Intelligence Agency
Cleveland Airport control tower
Columbia University Department of Civil Engineering and Engineering Mechanics
Congressional Joint Intelligence Committee
Consolidated Edison Company
Construction Technologies Laboratory
Controlled Demolitions Inc.
Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat
Counterterrorism and Security Group
CTL Engineering
D.H. Griffin Wrecking Co. Inc.
DeSimone Consulting Engineers
Dewhurst MacFarlane &Partners
DiSalvo Ericson Engineering
District of Columbia Fire & Rescue
DOD Honor Guard, Pentagon
D'Onofrio Construction
E-4B National Airborne Operations Center crews
Edwards and Kelcey Engineering
Engineering Systems, Inc.
Environmental protection Agency
Exponent Failure Analysis Associates
EYP Mission CriticalFacilities
Fairfax County Fire & Rescue
Falcon 20 crew in PA
Family members who received calls from victims on the planes
FBI Evidence Recovery Teams
Federal Aviation Administration
Federal Bureau of Investigation
Federal Emergency Management Agency
Federal Insurance Co.
FEMA 68-Person Urban Search and Rescue Teams: Arizona Task Force 1, California Task Force 1, California Task Force 3, California Task Force 7, Colorado Task Force 1, Fairfax Task Force 1, Florida Task Force 1, Florida Task Force 2, Maryland Task Force 1, Massachusetts Task Force 1, Metro Dade/Miami, Nebraska Task Force 1, New Mexico Task Force 1, New York Task Force 1, Pennsylvania Task Force 1, Tennessee Task Force 1, Texas Task Force 1, Utah Task Force 1, Virginia Task Force 1, Virginia Task Force 2, Washington Task Force 1
FEMA Disaster Field Office
FEMA Emergency Response Team
FEMA Urban Search and Rescue Incident Support Team-Advanced 3
Fire Department of New York
Fort Myer Fire Department
Fourteen teams of search dogs from Oregon
French Urban Search & Rescue Task Force
Friedens Volunteer Fire Department
Gateway Demolition
Gene Code Forensics
Georgia Tech Engineering Dept.
Gilsanz Murray Steficek LLP
GMAC Financing
Goldstein Associates Consulting Engineers
Guy Nordenson Associates
HAKS Engineers
Hampton-Clarke Inc.
HHS National Medical Response Team
HLW International Engineering
Hooversville Rescue Squad.
Hooversville Volunteer Fire Department
Hoy Structural Services
Hughes Associates, Inc
Hugo Neu Schnitzer East
hundreds of ironworkers, some of whom built the WTC
Hundreds of New York City Police Department Detectives
Industrial Risk Insurers
Institute for Civil Infrastructure Systems
International Association of Fire Chiefs
International Union of Operating Engineers Locals 14 & 15
J.R. Harris & Company
Karl Koch Steel Consulting Inc.
KCE Structural Engineers
Koch Skanska
Koutsoubis, Alonso Associates
Laboratory Corp. of America
Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory
Leslie E. Robertson Associates
LIRo Engineering
Listie Volunteer Fire Company
Lockwood Consulting
M.G. McLaren Engineering
Masonry Society
Mazzocchi Wrecking Inc.
Metal Management Northeast
Metropolitan Airport Authority Fire Unit
Miami-Dade Urban Search & Rescue
Military District of Washington Search & Rescue Team
Montgomery County Fire & Rescue
Mueser Rutledge Consulting Engineers
Murray Engineering
Myriad Genetic Laboratories Inc.
National Center for Biotechnology Informatics
National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States
National Council of Structural Engineers Associations
National Disaster Medical System
National Emergency Numbering Association
National Fire Protection Association
National Guard in D.C., New York, and Pennsylvania
National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST)
National Institutes of Health Human Genome Research Institute
National Law Enforcement and Security Institute
National Military Command Center
National Reconnaissance Office
National Response Center
National Science Foundation Division of Civil and Mechanical Systems
National Security Agency
National Transportation Safety Board
National Wrecking
Natural Hazards Research and Applications Information Center
New Jersey State Police
New York City Department of Buildings WTC Task Force
New York City Department of Design and Construction
New York City Department of Environmental Protection
New York City Office of Emergency Management
New York City Office of the Chief Medical Examiner
New York City Police Department Aviation Unit
New York City Police Department Emergency Services Unit
New York Daily News
New York Flight Control Center
New York Newsday
New York Port Authority Construction Board
New York Port Authority Police
New York State Emergency Management Office
New York State Police Forensic Services
New York Times
North American Aerospace Defense Command
Northeast Air Defense Sector Commanders and crew
Numerous bomb-sniffing dogs
Numerous Forensic Anthropologists
Numerous Forensic Dentists
Numerous Forensic Pathologists
Numerous Forensic Radiologists
NuStats
Occupational Safety and Health Administration
Office of Emergency Preparedness
Office of Strategic Services
Orchid Cellmark
Parsons Brinckerhoff Engineering
Pennsylvania Department of Environmental Protection
Pennsylvania Department of Health and Human Services
Pennsylvania Region 13 Metropolitan Medical Response Group
Pennsylvania State Funeral Directors Association
Pennsylvania State Police
Pentagon Defense Protective Service
Pentagon Helicopter Crash Response Team
Pentagon Medical Staff
Pentagon Renovation Team
Phillips & Jordan, Inc.
Port of New York and New Jersey Authority
Pro-Safety Services
Protec
Public Entity Risk Institute
Purdue University Engineering Dept.
Robert Silman Associates Structural Engineers
Rolf Jensen & Associates, Inc
Rosenwasser/Grossman Consulting Engineers
Royal SunAlliance/Royal Indemnity
SACE Prime Power Assessment Teams
SACE Structural Safety Engineers and Debris Planning and Response Teams
Salvation Army Disaster Services
several EPA Hazmat Teams
several FBI Hazmat Teams
several Federal Disaster Medical Assistance Teams
several Federal Disaster Mortuary (DMORT) Teams
Severud Associates Consulting Engineers
Shanksville Volunteer Fire Company
Silverstein Properties
Simpson Gumpertz & Heger Engineers
Skidmore, Owings & Merrill LLP
Skilling Ward Magnusson Barkshire
Society of Fire Protection Engineers
Somerset Ambulance Association
Somerset County Coroner's Office
Somerset County Emergency Management Agency
Somerset Volunteer Fire Department
St. Paul/Travelers Insurance
State of Pennsylvania Emergency Management Agency
Stoystown Volunteer Fire Company
Structural Engineering Institute of the American Society of Civil Engineers (SEI/ASCE)
Structural Engineers Association of New York
Superstructures Engineering
Swiss Re America Insurance
Telephone operators who took calls from passengers in the hijacked planes
Teng & Associates
Thornton-Tomasetti Group, Inc.
TIG Insurance
Tokio Marine & Fire
Transportation Safety Administration
Tully Construction
Twin City Fire Insurance
Tylk Gustafson Reckers Wilson Andrews Engineering
U.S. Army Corps of Engineers
Underwriters Laboratories
Union Wrecking
United Airlines
United States Air National Guard
United States Fire Administration
United States Secret Service
United Steelworkers of America
University of Sheffield Fire Engineering Research
US Army Reserves of Virginia Beach Fairfax County and Montgomery County
US Army’s Communications-Electronics Command
US Department of Defense
US Department of Justice
US Department of State
Virginia Beach Fire Department
Virginia Department of Emergency Management
Virginia State Police
Vollmer Associates Engineers
Washington Post
Weeks Marine
Weidlinger Associates
Weiskopf & Pickworth Engineering
Westmoreland County Emergency Management Agency
Whitney Contracting
Willis Group Holdings
WJE Structural Engineers
Worcester Polytechnic Institute
World Trade Center security staff
XL Insurance
Yonkers Contracting
York International
Zurich Financial
Zurich Re Risk Engineering

Conspiracists: are these people liars, dupes, or shills?

Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl, Ph.D., P.E.
Alan Rosa, P.E., S.E.
Allyn Kilsheimer, P.E.
Amit Bandyopadhyay, S.E.
Amy Zelson Mundorff
Anamaria Bonilla, S.E.
Andrew McConnell, S.E.
Andrew Mueller-Lust, S.E.
Andrew Pontecorvo, P.E.
Anthony Kirk US&R Structural Specialist
Anthony W. Chuliver, S.E.
Antoine E. Naaman, Ph.D.
Antranig M. Ouzoonian, P.E.
Arlan Dobson, FEMA Region 2 DAS
August Domel, Ph.D., S.E., P.E.
Bernie Denke US&R Structural Specialist
Bill Cote
Bill Coulbourne, P.E., S.E.
Bob Gray (I.U.O.E.)
Bonnie Manley, P.E., S.E.
Boris Hayda, P.E., S.E.
Brian Lyons
Brian McElhatten, S.E.
Brian Smith (Col.), Chief Deputy Medical Examiner, Dover AFB
Charles Hirsch, M.D.
Charles J. Carter, AISC
Charles Thornton, P.E.
Charlie Vitchers
Christopher E. Marrion, P.E.
Christopher M. Hewitt, AISC
Chuck Guardia, S.E.
D. Stanton Korista, P.E., S.E.
Dan Doyle (IW 40)
Dan Eschenasy, P.E., S.E.
Daniel A. Cuoco, P.E
Daniele Veneziano, P.E.
David Davidowitz, ConEd
David Hoy, S.E.
David Leach, USACE
David M. Parks, ME
David Peraza, P.E., S.E.
David Ranlet
David Schomburg
David Sharp, S.E.
David T. Biggs, P.E.
Dean Koutsoubis, S.E.
Dean Tills, P.E.
Delbert Boring, P.E.
Dennis Clark (IST)
Dennis Dirkmaat, Ph.D.
Dennis Mileti, Ph.D.
Dick Posthauer, S.E.
Donald Friedman, P.E.
Donald O. Dusenberry, P.E.
Ed McGinley, P.E.
Ed Plaugher, Chief, Arlington FD
Edward A. Flynn, Arlington Police Chief
Edward Depaola, S.E.
Edward M. DePaola, P.E.
Edward Stinnette, Chief, FCFD
Fahim Sadek, P.E., S.E.
Farid Alfawakhiri Ph.D.
FDNY Battalion Chief Frank Vallebuono
FDNY Captain Anthony Varriale
FDNY Chief Frank Cruthers
FDNY Chief Frank Fellini
FDNY Chief Joseph Callan
FDNY Chief of Operations Daniel Nigro
FDNY Deputy Chief Nick Visconti
FDNY Deputy Chief Peter Hayden
FDNY Firefighter Sam Melisi
Francis J. Lombardi, P.E.
Frank Gayle, Sc.D
Gary Keith, V.P. NFPA
Gary Steficek, S.E.
Gary Suson
Gary Tokle, Asst. VP, NFPA
George Tamaro, P.E., S.E.
Gerald Haynes, P.E.
Gerald Wellman US&R Structural Specialist
Guy Colonna, P.E., NFPA
Guylene Proulx, Ph.D.
H.S. Lew, P.E., S.E.
Harold E. Nelson, P.E., FSFP.E.
Harry Martin, AISC
J. David Frost, Ph.D., P.E.
Jack Brown Deputy Chief Loudoun County (Va.) Fire Rescue Department
Jack Messagno
James A. Rossberg, P.E.
James Chastain US&R Structural Specialist
James H. Fahey, S.E.
James Lord, FSFP.E.
James Milke, Ph.D., P.E.
Jan Szumanski, IUOE
Jason Averill, FSFP.E.
Jeffrey Hartman, S.E.
Jim Abadie
Joel Meyerowitz
John Gross, Ph.D., P.E.
John Hodgens, FDNY (ret.)
John J. Zils, P.E., S.E.
John L. Gross, Ph.D., P.E.
John Lekstutis, P.E.
John M. Hanson, Ph.D, P.E.
John McArdle NYPD/ESU (DTC)
John Moran, NYPD/ESU (NTC)
John O'Connell
John Odermatt (NYC OEM)
John Ruddy, P.E., S.E.
John Ryan, PAPD
John W. Fisher, P.E.
Jon Magnusson, P.E., S.E.
Jonathan Barnett, Ph.D
Joo-Eun Lee P.E., S.E.
Joseph C. Gehlen, P.E., S.E.
Jozef Van Dyck, P.E.
Juan Paulo Morla, S.E.
Karl Koch III
Kaspar Willam, P.E., S.E.
Kenneth Holden
Kent Watts
Kevin Malley, FDNY (ret.)
Kevin Terry, S.E.
Kurt Gustafson, P.E., S.E.
Larry Keating (IW 40)
Lawrence C. Bank, Ph.D., P.E.
Lawrence Griffis, P.E.
Leo J. Titus, P.E.
Leonard M. Joseph, P.E.
Leslie E. Robertson, P.E., S.E.
Long T. Phan, Ph.D., P.E.
Lou Mendes, P.E., S.E.
Louis Errichiello, S.E.
Manny Velivasakis, P.E.
Mark Blair
Mark Kucera, USACE
Mark Tamaro, P.E
Mark Volpe, IW 40
Marty Corcoran
Matthew G. Yerkey, P.E., S.E.
Merle E. Brander, P.E.
Mete A. Sozen, Ph.D., S.E.
Michael Burton, P.E.
Michael Dallal
Michael Hessheimer, S.E.
Michael Tylk, P.E., S.E.
Mike Banker, FDNY Capt. (SOC)
Mike Marscio, P.E.
Miroslav Sulc,, P.E., S.E.
Mohammed Ettouney
Morgan Hurley, FSFP.E.
Nestor Iwankiw, Ph.D., P.E.
Nick Carcich
Norman Groner, Ph.D.
Pablo Lopez, P.E., S.E.
Paul A. Bosela, Ph.D., P.E.
Paul F. Mlakar, Ph.D., P.E.
Paul Sledzik
Paul Tertell, P.E.
Pete Bakersky
Peter Chipchase, S.E.
Peter Rinaldi, P.E.
Rajani Nair, S.E.
Ramon Gilsanz, P.E., S.E
Randy Lawson
Raul Maestre, P.E., S.E.
Raymond F. Messer, P.E.
Reidar Bjorhovde, Ph.D., P.E
Richard Bukowski P.E., FSFP.E.
Richard G. Gewain, P.E., S.E.
Richard Gann, Ph.D.
Richard Garlock, P.E., S.E.
Richard Kahler US&R Structural Specialist
Robert C. Sinn, P.E., S.E.
Robert F. Duval (NFPA)
Robert Frances US&R Structural Specialist
Robert J. McNamara, P.E., S.E.
Robert Ratay, Ph.D., P.E., S.E.
Robert Shaler, M.D.
Robert Smilowitz, Ph.D., P.E
Robert Solomon, P.E.
Robert Wills, AISC
Ronald Hamburger, P.E., S.E.
Ronald J. LaMere, P.E.
Ronald Rehm, Ph.D.
Ronald Spadafora, FDNY D.A.C
Ruben M. Zallen, P.E.
Russell "Rusty" Dodge Jr, Asst. Chief, Fort Belvoir FD
S. Shyam Sunder, P.E., S.E.
Saw-Teen See, P.E.
Shankar Nair. P.E., S.E.
Shawn Kelly, Arlington County Fire Marshal
Socrates Ioannides, P.E., S.E.
Sonny Scarff
Stan Murphy, P.E.
Stephen Cauffman
Steve Rasweiler, FDNY B.C. (SOC)
Stuart Foltz, P.E.
Terry Sullivan, Tully
Theodore Galambos, P.E.
Theodore Krauthammer, Ph.D., P.E.
Therese P. McAllister, Ph.D., P.E.
Thomas Hawkins Jr, Chief, AFD
Thomas Schlafly, AISC
Todd Ude, P.E., S.E.
Tom Scarangello, P.E.
Tom Stanton (IST)
Tony Beale, P.E.
Valentine Junker
Venkatesh Kodur, Ph.D., P.E.
Victor Hare, P.E.
Vincent Dunn, FDNY (ret.)
W. Gene Corley, Ph.D., P.E., S.E.
W. Lee Evey
Wallace Miller
William Baker, P.E., S.E
William Grosshandler, Ph.D., ME
William McGuire, P.E.
Willie Quinlan, IW
Zdenek Bazant, Ph.D., S.E.

9/11 Commission & Staff
Thomas H. Kean, Chair
Lee H. Hamilton, Vice Chair
Richard Ben-Veniste
Fred F. Fielding
Jamie S. Gorelick
Slade Gorton
Bob Kerrey
John F. Lehman
Timothy J. Roemer
James R. Thompson

Joanne Accolla
Alexis Albion
Scott Allan
John Azzarello
Caroline Barnes
Warren Bass
Ann Bennett
Mark Bittinger
Madeleine Blot
Antwion Blount
Geoff Brown
Daniel Byman
Dianna Campagna
Sam Caspersen
Melissa Coffey
Lance Cole
Marquittia Coleman
Marco Cordero
Raj De Counsel
George Delgrosso
Gerald L. Dillingham
Thomas Dowling
Steven Dunne
Thomas Eldridge
John Farmer
Alvin Felzenberg
Gordon England
Lorry Fenner
Susan Ginsburg
T. Graham Giusti
Nicole Grandrimo
Doug Greenburg
Barbara Grewe
Elinore Hartz
Len Hawley
Christine Healey
Karen Heitkotter
Walt Hempel
Michael Hurley
Dana Hyde
Michael Jacobson
Bonnie Jenkins
Reginald Johnson
William Johnstone
Stephanie Kaplan
Miles Kara
Janice Kephart-Roberts
Hyon Kim
Christopher Kojm
Katarzyna (Kasia) Kozaczuk
Gordon Lederman
Daniel Leopold
Sarah Linden
Douglas MacEachin
Daniel Marcus
Ernest May
James Miller
Kelly Moore
Charles Pereira
John Raidt
John Roth
Peter Rundlet
Lloyd Salvetti
Kevin Scheid
Kevin Shaeffer
Tracy Shycoff
Dietrich Snell
Jonathan Stull
Lisa Sullivan
John Tamm
Cate Taylor
Yoel Tobin
Emily Walker
Garth Wermter
Serena Wille
Philip Zelikow, Executive Director

The Congressional Joint Inquiry on 9/11
Senate Members
Bob Graham, D - Florida, Chairman
Richard C. Shelby, R - Alabama, Vice Chairman
Carl Levin
Jon Kyl
John D. Rockefeller
James M. Inhofe
Dianne Feinstein
Orrin Hatch
Ron Wyden
Pat Roberts
Richard J. Durbin,
Mike DeWine
EvanBayh
Fred Thompson
John Edwards
Richard Lugar
Barbara Mikulski
Al Cumming, Staff Director
William Duhnke, Minority Staff Director

House Members
Porter J. Goss, Chairman
Nancy Pelosi
Doug Bereuter
Sanford D. Bishop
Michael N. Castle,
Jane Harman
Sherwood L. Boehlert
Gary A. Condit
Jim Gibbons
Tim Roemer
Ray LaHood
Silvestre Reyes
Randy Cunningham
Leonard L. Boswell
Peter Hoekstra,
Collin C. Peterson
Richard Burr
Bud Cramer
Saxby Chambliss
Terry Everett
Timothy R. Sample, Staff Director
Michael W. Sheehy, Democratic Counsel

Staff
Eleanor Hill
Rick Cinquegrana
David Barton
Ann Bennett
Daniel Byman
Michael Davidson
George Ellard
Rahul Gupta
Kay Holt
John Ivicic
Michael Jacobson
Everette Jordan
Miles Kara
John Keefe
Thomas Kelley
Dana Lesemann
Patti Litman
Arthur Menna
Lewis Moon
Patricia Ravalgi
Alonzo Robertson
Robert Rosenwald
Michael Smith
Catherine Williams
Click to expand...

Wow look at all those people who have provided absolutely no evidence as to what hit the tower.
 
PhantomWolf said:
Well that's a good question when you have already handwaved your way past the questionn of what you would accept as evidence. So far you have waved away the rader tracking, the air traffic control, the passanger manifests, the plane and body parts found all over ground zero and the nearby area, including an engine, bits of bone and other grisy items and personal effects from passangers on the plane, the witnesses, the film of a plane in UA colours hitting the building, probably the photo of the plane in UA colours hitting the building, the missing plane itself being missing, the fact that UA says it was their plane, the phone calls from the plane, including one from a passanger to his parents which cut off with a scream of "oh my god" as they watched the plane hit the building live on TV. You demand standards of the investigators that have never been used before (i.e. doing the DNA test at the site in question) and ignore anything you don't like, so yeah, why should we bother to present evidence since you ignore and wave it away and claim that it isn't evidence at all, just like you will do with all of the evidence in this post, if you bother to reply to it.
Click to expand...

All of this has been covered Phantom. If you can't bother reading then don't bother replying.
 
ZENSMACK89 said:
Wow look at all those people who have provided absolutely no evidence as to what hit the tower.
Click to expand...

You have been given the evidence over and over and over. Just because you refuse to accept that it is evidence doesn't stop it being so.
 
ZENSMACK89 said:
All of this has been covered Phantom. If you can't bother reading then don't bother replying.
Click to expand...

Again, just because you refuse to accept something as evidence doesn't mean it isn't evidence. You are demanding standards beyond all normal reason. Heck under your standards, I bet you can't prove that the moon exists.
 
WHY are you people still feeding this troll? Hasn't his game become painfully transparent by now?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom