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(Not) two small pockets of fire (Split from Sept Stundies)

Bell

Penultimate Amazing
B
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Sep 9, 2006
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Horatius said:
Can we have a special category for the most misquotes of NIST in one thread?

That second one might not be (entirely) a "quote" from NIST, but the sentence is so badly written, someone unfamiliar with the usual twoofer arguments might think it is....
Click to expand...

:hb:

I so **** hate that "two isolated pockets of fire" argument. How completly ignorant does one have to be to claim there were only two pockets of fire? I have no words...

I once saw a dramatic airial picture on this forum of the North Tower, looking at the south and west side, showing the immense fires raging on several floors.

ETA: Not to mention all the video and pictures of the South Tower (which the quote relates to) showing many fires ABOVE the 78th floor. The building didn't stop at the 78th floor, you know...
 
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Bell said:
:hb:

I so **** hate that "two isolated pockets of fire" argument. How completly ignorant does one have to be to claim there were only two pockets of fire? I have no words...

I once saw a dramatic airial picture on this forum of the North Tower, looking at the south and west side, showing the immense fires raging on several floors.

ETA: Not to mention all the video and pictures of the South Tower (which the quote relates to) showing many fires ABOVE the 78th floor. The building didn't stop at the 78th floor, you know...
Click to expand...
interestingly if you look at the NIST FEA for the fires on the 78th floor they did show 2 isolated hotspots, so even the claim that chief palmers radio transmissions contradict NISTs simulations are wrong

of course the 79th and 80th floors were much worse
 
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Bell said:
:hb:

I so **** hate that "two isolated pockets of fire" argument. How completly ignorant does one have to be to claim there were only two pockets of fire? I have no words...

I once saw a dramatic airial picture on this forum of the North Tower, looking at the south and west side, showing the immense fires raging on several floors.

ETA: Not to mention all the video and pictures of the South Tower (which the quote relates to) showing many fires ABOVE the 78th floor. The building didn't stop at the 78th floor, you know...
Click to expand...

Indeed. These shots frighten me, and there are high-res versions that are even more powerful

WTC1latefires-1.jpg


wtc1fires.jpg
 
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GlennB said:
Indeed. These shots frighten me, and there are high-res versions that are even more powerful

[qimg]http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l131/Ignatz_CT/WTC1latefires-1.jpg[/qimg]

[qimg]http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l131/Ignatz_CT/wtc1fires.jpg[/qimg]
Click to expand...

That top picture was indeed the one I was talking about. F*ing horrible.
 
I think some people forget all about scale when looking at these pictures. This isn't some model building sitting on somebody's dining room table; those fires are HUGE.
 
Bell said:
That top picture was indeed the one I was talking about. F*ing horrible.
Click to expand...

I think this is the 1st time I saw the lower picture. With the one floor totally involved, it makes me wonder how the building stood as long as it did. Truly a very disturbing picture.
 
Belz... said:
To be "fair", of course, the truther was talking about the south tower, not that this makes him any more right. Or any less stupid.
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I know. I pointed this out in my original post :)

Allthough the fires where not as visible in WTC2 as those in the above pictures, I still can't understand the troofers ignorance. The following picture for example (hosted by our friend Killtown) shows fires on the 79th, 80th, 81st, 82nd and 83th floor. As in, the floors above the 78th floor. As in, the 78th floor was not the only floor on fire.

http://killtown.911review.org/images/wtc-gallery/nist1-5fd/6-36_wtc2-north-face-exit.jpg


ETA: Please wait with replying to this discussion. I'll ask a mod to split the thread. Thanks.
 
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Look where the 78th floor is in relation of the bowing columns:
WTC2Floors_b.jpg


I'm also sick of people taking Orio Palmer's quote out of context. But it will continue to be brought up since Conspiracy videos and websites will continue to use it. Jason Bermas even brought it up last year in his debate with Gravy...

There's always pictures like this one too:
78thfloor.jpg
 
Bell said:
Allthough the fires where not as visible in WTC2 as those in the above pictures, I still can't understand the troofers ignorance. The following picture for example (hosted by our friend Killtown) shows fires on the 79th, 80th, 81st, 82nd and 83th floor. As in, the floors above the 78th floor. As in, the 78th floor was not the only floor on fire.
Click to expand...


Indeed.

Chief Palmer had brought a company of firefighters with him in his trek up the south tower. The 78th and 79th floors were connected by an escalator and the fire on 79 was visible to the firefighters on 78. After making the radio transmission that the troofers love to misinterpret, Chief Palmer sent a group of firefighters to the 79th floor. Within moments, the tower collapsed.
 
I woul;d like to add here that this shows clearly that there was a good source of air into the fire zone. It may have gone out locally but was probably still spreading upward, since it was recieving a good flow of air from the bottom and had a place to go through some of the broken-out windows and stairwells.

It could have been quite hot enough around the cores to cause considerable expansion of the steel, even with the insulation in place. Surely, it would have placed some strain on the joints, and not in a symetrical pattern.

That the smoke is black does not indicate that the fires inside were oxygen-starved, It just shows that some areas were. The atmosphere around the outside would be comprised to some extent of combustion products of the fires further in. In jet fuel fires, I often observed bright yellow flames at ground level, while the fire produced tremendous amounts of black smoke with red flames rising into the smoke.

I have seen links here to videos of back drafts that show what happens when a fire seems to be going out as soon as air is introduced into the area. It can be impressive. Secondary explosions would, thus, not be at all surprising.
 
Good link, Default. And the link in there to the other transmissions is interesting as well.

Those transcripts fail to express the stress in the voices of the firefighters
Click to expand...

At the museum on Liberty Street, next to the "TEN HOUSE" - quarters of FDNY
Eng 10/Lad 10, have an exhibit where when push button can hear the actual radio
transmissions of Chief Palmer, his aide Steve Belson, and crew of Ladder 15 as made
way up the stairs. Final transmission gets cut off as building collapses.

Anyone can get to NYC should go through it.
 
njslim said:
At the museum on Liberty Street, next to the "TEN HOUSE" - quarters of FDNY
Eng 10/Lad 10, have an exhibit where when push button can hear the actual radio
transmissions of Chief Palmer, his aide Steve Belson, and crew of Ladder 15 as made
way up the stairs. Final transmission gets cut off as building collapses.

Anyone can get to NYC should go through it.
Click to expand...

I'll have to remember that. There's a possibility I'll visit NY next summer.

BTW, what's the name of the museum? Does it have a website?
 
I don't remember the name of it, but its on liberty street right next to the station. If you walk down Church St towards the Burger King, just make a right and its on the left hand side.



ETA - Opps just realized you said next summer, so keep these directions handy haha
 
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