Flight 175 plane speed challenged

[firecoins]

For flight 175 alone there is no black box meaning no flight data and no voice data, a changing transponder code, no one with the experience or skill to fly the plane the way it is claimed, not one serially controlled part of the plane offered up as identification, and supposedly only 12 victim remains identified out of 65 but you have a pristine passport of one of the hijackers of the other plane conveniently found in the rubble of two fallen skyscrapers.

These are your facts?

Flight 175 was videotaped by both professionals and amateurs, American and foreign journalists and many non journalists hitting the South Tower. This is a fact. Nothing you have said has refuted this. I am sorry. You lose.

I have traced the trajectory of the magic passport. It was fired from the Grassy Knoll. Back and to the left. Back and to the left. Back and to the left. Back and to the left. Consistent with a passport stamp from the front and to the right.

 

[ZENSMACK89]

You keep making the same basic mistake. It did NOT take skill to fly the aircraft the way it was flown. Indeed, its maneuvers demonstrate that a lesser skilled person was at the controls.

You could test this for yourself. Read a few flight manuals, take a few training flights with an instructor, then go buy yourself some time in a real 767 simulator. Since simulators are designed for the express purpose of training pilots on the aircraft, the simulator mimics the behaviour of the real aircraft extremely closely. So you'd be as close to flying the real thing as you can get without actually flying the real thing.

If sim time is too expensive for you, there's always a cheaper, though less precise, option. Pick up Microsoft Flight Simulator X or similar program. If there isn't a 767 with the software, get a mod which adds one. Then, fly that around. Granted, such programs don't come close to simulating all the details of the physics of flight as compared to a real simulator, but they do a reasonably good job for what they are.

With either option, you'll find flying is not as hard as you seem to think it is. Landing is hard, yes, but just flying from point A to point B is not. Abusing an aircraft with harsh maneuvers isn't hard either.

This is speculation not proof of anything and to claim 3 amateurs hit their targets at the speeds and maneuvers claimed out of 4 successful hijackings all in one morning without one being intercepted is far fetched speculation.

 

[ZENSMACK89]

Demasi is a fraud.

That's a highly selective fact-filter you've got bolted to your noggin, kid.

That's your opinion that the black boxes weren't found but a pristine passport was. Just your opinion

Edited by chillzero: 

Edited for civility

 

[ZENSMACK89]

The link you provided does not go to the story you quote, but no matter; following is a link to an abridged version of the original article that has been parroted by numerous conspiracist web sites.

I dealt with this claim last year in this post on bautforum:

The spitfire quote is not proof of anything it's just opinion.

Here's the link...

http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/black_box.html

 

[ZENSMACK89]

No, those are your factoids and assertions.

Flight data and voice data are not always recovered after an accident. That they weren't recovered or working after slamming into a building, burning for awhile with much more fuel (the building contents) than there would be in a typical crash, been in the middle of a building collapse, then smoldered under the building rubble for weeks, surprises me very little.
But you find it suspicious. I think that says more about your reasoning ability than it does about the plausibility of any particular scenario.

A changing transponder code. So? It was a trick. It worked. I would like to point out that since autopilots can't change the transponder code, the changing of the code contraindicates a remote-controlled takeover.

Your opinion: no one with the experience or the skill to fly the plane was onboard.
My opinion: No great skill at aviation was required or demonstrated in the flight.
Frankly, I think they were overqualified.
I'd bet money you could:
Take virtually any student that has soloed a Cessna 150.
Train him using only commercially-available-for the-PC flight sim software as a procedures trainer. I don't think much of them as simulating real flying experience, but for drilling on knob and switch placement and following procedures, they'd be perfectly adequate.
Put him in one of the 6-degree-of-freedom simulators, and he would be successful 3 times out of 4 attempts.

In point of fact, ISTR someone in the Netherlands doing something similar, though I don't have a link handy. The student was successful 3 out of 3, no problem, with far less than months of study and no religious convictions driving him.

Serial numbered parts: Would you really accept any information released to you by the the U.S. government on serial numbers of parts found while investigating the attack?

If your answer is no, then why even ask about information the existence of which is not going to change your position?

If your answer is yes, you would, then why is the DNA identification of twelve of the passengers not sufficient to uniquely identify flight 175?
DNA is a lot harder to forge than serial numbers on mechanical parts.

The passport from a different aircraft: that doesn't make it impossible for an adequate suicide pilot to be on board Flight 175. But it has such a nice emotional appeal to it.

Nothing but hand waving and apologies for the official fable. No facts yet from anyone.

 

[DGM]

That's your opinion that the black boxes weren't found but a pristine passport was. Just your opinion

Edited by chillzero: 

Edited for civility

Please show me this "pristine" passport. A picture will do.

 

[ZENSMACK89]

http://911myths.com/html/black_boxes.html

9/11 myths has no credentials .

Gee, it appears as though you're suffering from a failure of imagination, something unusual for fantasists. Are you really trying?

Is there a fact in there somewhere?

C'mon, ZEN, tell us what the black boxes could conceivably show. You don't want us to think that you're just blowing smoke again, do you?

Why do they have black boxes and what's in them? The Black box part itself, what's it made to do? C'mon pomeroo any facts at all?

But the plane was identified, ZEN. Only you conspiracy liars pretend that it wasn't.

How was it identified?

That's funny. You were pounded flat and you're the one saying "Next"?
Understandably, you're dreading a reply, but I think I'll disappoint you.

You are delussional and you have nothing and that's not funny it's sad.

Next

WHAT COULD THE BLACK BOXES TELL US?[]

Why do they have Black Boxes pomeroo? What is this OP about? Get a clue.

 

[ZENSMACK89]

The found the black boxes of AA77 and UA93, are these genuine? Did these record the actual events?

ETA: The recordings (or transcripts) as provided to the public, that is.

One bull hijacking story at a time. And right now that's flight 175. But for what it's worth to you...

http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/04/12/moussaoui.trial/index.html

On tape, passengers heard trying to retake cockpit
9/11 jury relives final minutes of hijacked United Flight 93

From Phil Hirschkorn
CNN
Wednesday, April 12, 2006; Posted: 11:52 p.m. EDT (03:52 GMT)

The voices on Flight 93's cockpit recording, the only one recovered intact from the four planes hijacked on September 11, speak in English and Arabic.


Wiki-
"Black Box" recorders

The flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder were recovered on the afternoon of September 13, buried 25 feet (8 m) deep at the impact site, but only transcripts have been released to the public.

The transcripts of the recording were made public as part of the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui, but the actual recording has not been released.

http://911review.org/Wiki/Flight77BlackBoxes.shtml

"On September 14, the DoD announced that they had found the black boxes for Flight 77, and that they have been turned over to the NTSB. However, the data of the flight data recorders, or the voice from the voice recorder from flight 77 have never been released:

September 14, 2001 -- Searchers found the flight data and cockpit voice recorders about 4 a.m. today in the wreckage of the hijacked plane that slammed into the Pentagon on September 11, Defense Department officials said. The two "black boxes" will help investigators put together the puzzle of what happened during the doomed flight, said DoD spokesman Army Lt. Col. George H. Rhynedance. "The voice recorder will tell what was going on in the cockpit," he said. The data box, he said, will tell what was happening with the aircraft as it headed toward the Pentagon, such as its rate of turn. information from the two boxes will help determine what actually happened during the flight, he said. The recorders were turned over the FBI. The recorders are now at the National Transportation Safety Board laboratory in Washington, where technicians are working to recover data on the recorders. DoD

Edited by chillzero: 

Breach of Rule 4

Now if you wish to contiue about 93 or 77 start your own thread or wait for me. I'll get around to it eventually. Now do you have any facts on 175?

 

[ZENSMACK89]

Please show me this "pristine" passport. A picture will do.

Pristine is a figure of speech to describe something decernable in the among the carnage of groundzero. I know a passport is made of paper and a black box is made of steel and is built to survive a plane crash.

Did the Black Box melt? Maybe that's the molten metal huh?

Oh BTW...

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/events-images/656_al_suqami_passport2050081722-9425.jpg

Looks pretty good to me.

 

[Mancman]

That's your opinion that the black boxes weren't found but a pristine passport was. Just your opinion

Edited by chillzero: 

Edited for civility

The passport was found on the street while the towers will still standing thus it was obviously expelled from the building, just as many other flammable objects were - most notably plane seats. Pieces of mail were also recovered - were they fake?

If the black boxes (or the remains of them) were retained inside the buildings then it is no surprise they were not recovered.

 

[ZENSMACK89]

Flight 175 was videotaped by both professionals and amateurs, American and foreign journalists and many non journalists hitting the South Tower. This is a fact. Nothing you have said has refuted this. I am sorry. You lose.

I have traced the trajectory of the magic passport. It was fired from the Grassy Knoll. Back and to the left. Back and to the left. Back and to the left. Back and to the left. Consistent with a passport stamp from the front and to the right.

I seem to remember there is also a video of UBL where he supposedly confesses to 9/11 but for some reason the FBI can’t use that video to secure an indictment. Why is that?

As for the famous CNN footage of flight 175 what does Michael Hezarkhani who took that video have to say about it? Is he allowed to say anything? If you are able to even trace the chain of custody of some of these video's like the Hezarkhano don't be surprised if you get no answers. CNN has got that one all locked up.

In the end a video is not identification of a plane. Even with all the video that is available of any of the crashes it’s still disputed what kind of planes they are. Never mind that it might be identified as a 767 how do you know what 767?

 

[ZENSMACK89]

The passport was found on the street while the towers will still standing thus it was obviously expelled from the building, just as many other flammable objects were - most notably plane seats. Pieces of mail were also recovered - were they fake?

If the black boxes (or the remains of them) were retained inside the buildings then it is no surprise they were not recovered.

Why is that no surprise? Did they ship it overseas with much of the other steel or did it melt?

 

[fitzgibbon]

9/11 myths has no credentials .

Ah! And you're under the impression that you DO have credentials. Care to share?

Why do they have black boxes and what's in them. The Black box part itsef what's it made to do? C'mon pomeroo any facts at all?

If thousands of people hadn't witnessed the impact, you might have a point. However, unless you're a no-planer, the destruction of the black boxes isn't really relevant.

How was it identified?

Uh....by the aforementioned thousands of witnesses? Or are you about to suggest that they were all under hypnotic suggestion?

You are delussional and you have nothing and that's not funny it's sad.

Pot? Meet Kettle.


Sheesh!

 

[DGM]

Why is that no surprise? Did they ship it overseas with much of the other steel or did it melt?

Hey Zen:
How did they fake the impact video? CGI, Holograms or what. The planes can't go that fast remember?

 

[ZENSMACK89]

Ah! And you're under the impression that you DO have credentials. Care to share?

Ah! Care to follow the thread?

Originally Posted by ZENSMACK89
Debunked by whom with what credentials?

Originally Posted by pomeroo
http://911myths.com/html/black_boxes.html

Originally Posted by ZENSMACK89
9/11 myths has no credentials.

My credentials? Just as good as 911myths, screwloose, Gravy, etc. etc. if not better. When I post CNN or Reuters and someone comes back with 911myths or Gravy I can only laugh.

If thousands of people hadn't witnessed the impact, you might have a point. However, unless you're a no-planer, the destruction of the black boxes isn't really relevant.

I didn't claim nothing hit the towers. I claimed whatever hit the towers has not been identified in the same manner and procedures used at any other time in history.

Uh....by the aforementioned thousands of witnesses? Or are you about to suggest that they were all under hypnotic suggestion?

Hypnotic suggestion of what? Where do thousands of witnesses ID flight 175? Site it.

Pot? Meet Kettle.

Still nothing.

Sheesh!

And more nothing.

 

[Bell]

One bull hijacking story at a time. And right now that's flight 175. But for what it's worth to you...

<snip>

Now if you wish to contiue about 93 or 77 start your own thread or wait for me. I'll get around to it eventually. Now do you have any facts on 175?

A simple yes or no would do, Zen. The black boxes and the transcripts from77 and 93, real or not?

 

[DavidJames]

Hey ZEN - Still no evidence of an inside job? Why is that?

 

[ZENSMACK89]

Hey ZEN - Still no evidence of an inside job? Why is that?

Still no facts from you?

 

[fitzgibbon]

Still no facts from you?

And none from you. You're original assertion that the plane couldn't have been flying as fast as it was has been demonstrated as being the whole cloth argument it is. And yet you soldier on.

 

[DavidJames]

Still no facts from you?

The facts regarding the reason for the collapse are in the NIST reports.
The facts regarding who attacked are in the 9/11 report.

Where are you facts that support an inside job?