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Lee Bollinger rips Ahmadinejad a new one.

JoeEllison said:
I'd LOVE for you to explain how his comments cleared up the issues for anyone. I'm pretty sure just about everyone understands the general idea that Iran is a kind of crappy place to live, comparatively, and that the people in charge are to blame. Saying the equivalent of "that guy's an idiot" doesn't really add to anyone's knowledge, does it?
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You assert that everyone has a general idea that Iran is a kind of crappy place to live. Why do you assume this to be so? I don't think this is true. Further, I don't think Ahmadinejad understand how he is seen by those who do happen to know better. He knows now.
 
RandFan said:
You assert that everyone has a general idea that Iran is a kind of crappy place to live. Why do you assume this to be so? I don't think this is true. Further, I don't think Ahmadinejad understand how he is seen by those who do happen to know better. He knows now.
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Wow... I'm not sure how to respond to that. I was going to call you insane to suggest that people don't know that Iran is less fun than Disneyland, or that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad doesn't know that people object to Holocaust deniers. Then, two things stopped me in my tracks:

1) You're a libertarian... "insane" is a given.:p
2) That chick on The View can't say for sure if the earth is flat, so I guess any level of ignorance is possible
 
RandFan said:
Me: (qualifier)


You: (No qualifier except "in the media")
I don't think the edit mattersl.

So, let me ask you, are "conservatives" in the media monolithic?
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Usually, except when they are climbing over each other to be more stupidly extreme then their fellows. :D


I'd say that the distinction between "conservatives" and "conservatives in the media" is pretty important. We're looking at about 30% of the country still deluded into believing just about anything Bush and the Republicans say, so we can safely say around 100 million "conservatives". There are not 100 million people with book deals or a steady gig with Fox "News".

See? Big difference. I think that 100 or so people can be relatively monolithic, but I doubt 100,000,000 people can be.
 
RandFan said:
30 minutes? Wow, thanks.
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Yes, there seems to be only two sources that put the videos of the Q&A online in YouTube ( seethroughit and CNN ).
And they have been seen only by few people.
I am becoming paranoid, but, is not that strange?
 
Matteo Martini said:
Yes, there seems to be only two sources that put the videos of the Q&A online in YouTube ( seethroughit and CNN ).
And they have been seen only by few people.
I am becoming paranoid, but, is not that strange?
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What makes it strange? How many of his other speeches are transcribed online in full?
 
JoeEllison said:
Wow... I'm not sure how to respond to that. I was going to call you insane to suggest that people don't know that Iran is less fun than Disneyland, or that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad doesn't know that people object to Holocaust deniers. Then, two things stopped me in my tracks:

1) You're a libertarian... "insane" is a given.:p
2) That chick on The View can't say for sure if the earth is flat, so I guess any level of ignorance is possible
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There's a lot of assumptions in this post.

(1) I'm not anything really. I was a registered Republican until two weeks ago. I'm now an independant. I don't subscribe to any ideology. You could say that I'm "liberatrian" but not "a libertarian". But then you could say that I'm socialist and conservative and liberal (progressive) and well, lots of things. Depends on what you are talking about.

I like my politics à la Carte.

(2) That's my general idea.

I've not given up on your point though. It's still a fair critisism. I'm just loving the crap Amadinejad has stepped in.
 
JoeEllison said:
Usually, except when they are climbing over each other to be more stupidly extreme then their fellows. :D


I'd say that the distinction between "conservatives" and "conservatives in the media" is pretty important. We're looking at about 30% of the country still deluded into believing just about anything Bush and the Republicans say, so we can safely say around 100 million "conservatives". There are not 100 million people with book deals or a steady gig with Fox "News".

See? Big difference. I think that 100 or so people can be relatively monolithic, but I doubt 100,000,000 people can be.
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Then I don't think my original statement needed any qualification when it comes to Liberals but that's fine. I don't need to debate the point. I certainly don't agree with you about Conservatives in the media. After a year of Air America (which I genuinly like) and years of talking heads I'm not impressed with the level of intelectual honest of many. I would be willing to give the liberals an edge. Not much though.
 
RandFan said:
Then I don't think my original statement needed any qualification when it comes to Liberals but that's fine. I don't need to debate the point. I certainly don't agree with you about Conservatives in the media. After a year of Air America (which I genuinly like) and years of talking heads I'm not impressed with the level of intelectual honest of many. I would be willing to give the liberals an edge. Not much though.
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To which I would reply "what liberals?" :D

Enough hijack!
 
RandFan said:
If you mean Tom Clancy then I'm not certain (come to think of it I'm not certain at all).

In any event, I'm not that familiar with his politics.
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Wow... the whooshing noise is my joke going right over your head.:(
 
Speaking as someone who identifies as liberal, was against the Iraq invasion, and so far has only voted straight ticket Democratic...

Bollinger was right to say what he said to Ahmadinejad. I believe in calling a spade a spade, and Ahmadinejad deserves every criticism that was leveled at him today. His statement that gays don't exist in Iran is hilarious on the surface, but chilling when you consider that if he had his way, they'd just hang them all. No more gays. His denial of the Holocaust is beyond contemptible, and is deserving of every manner of scorn and derision that can be mustered. While saying the Holocaust is bogus or exxagerated, in the same breath he says Israel must be destroyed.

This is beyond diplomatic small talk, where it pays to be respectful. This is not a man who is interested in enriching cultures by exchanging ideas and learning each others customs. He is making threats.

Bollinger exercised his First Amendment rights to free speech, one of the key things that makes this country great. Damn far from perfect, but great nonetheless. As an American, I feel that he did me proud by standing up to a tyrant who needs to be challenged.

It was right to give Ahmadinejad a public platform, for the same reason that folks like the KKK or the Aryan Nation are given a platform of free speech. If hateful bigots of any stripe want the noose of public opinion to hang themselves with, who are we to say no?

Lastly, just because I despise Bush it doesn't mean that I think Ahmadinejad is just swell, and a snappy dresser to boot. I'll leave the unconditional worship of anyone who says unkind things about Bush to irrational psychos like Alex Jones.

"The lesser of two evils is still evil. And the enemy of my enemy is not my friend." (paraphrased from Penn Jilette, I believe)
 
JoeEllison said:
To which I would reply "what liberals?" :D

Enough hijack!
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Thanks Joe. Not a problem. In passing, I dig Young Turks big time and I'm in love with Janeane Garofalo but the judge says I can't call her anymore and I have to stay at least 50 feet away.
 
Cello Man said:
Speaking as someone who identifies as liberal, was against the Iraq invasion, and so far has only voted straight ticket Democratic...

Bollinger was right to say what he said to Ahmadinejad.
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Got to disagree with you there. Not that what he said wasn't true, but the time and place was wrong.

On the other hand, if he'd wanted to take a page in the school's newspaper to address the falsehoods and inaccuracies of the speech, I'd be all for it.
 
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