Soldier sues DoD over religious freedom

[cgordon]

Soldier sues DoD over religious freedom

By John Milburn - The Associated Press
Posted : Thursday Sep 20, 2007 5:43:34 EDT

FORT RILEY, Kan. — An Army soldier who unsuccessfully tried to hold a meeting for atheists and other non-Christians is suing Defense Secretary Robert Gates and an Army major, saying his right to religious freedom was violated.

The lawsuit filed Monday in federal court alleges a pattern of practices that discriminate against non-Christians in the military.

 

[madurobob]

Poor guy. He is SO going to be redeployed to Iraq and killed by an IED in the next couple of months.

"Where is your no-god now?"

 

[Darth Rotor]

Soldier sues DoD over religious freedom

By John Milburn - The Associated Press
Posted : Thursday Sep 20, 2007 5:43:34 EDT

FORT RILEY, Kan. — An Army soldier who unsuccessfully tried to hold a meeting for atheists and other non-Christians is suing Defense Secretary Robert Gates and an Army major, saying his right to religion freedom was violated.

The lawsuit filed Monday in federal court alleges a pattern of practices that discriminate against non-Christians in the military.

How is atheism a religion, again?

On the R & P forum, a pretty good case has been made that Atheism is not a religion. Perhaps he is making a variation on the Establishment Clause argument, or even a XIVth Amendment bid, based on an equal protection (for both religious and on religious persons, and an atheist is non religious) under the law.

Or, he may have begun this with a standard EO grievance (unfair treatment) under DoD regulations and it has turned into a lawsuit for any number of reasons.

This will be interesting to watch unfold.

DR

 

[IMST]

How is atheism a religion, again?

On the R & P forum, a pretty good case has been made that Atheism is not a religion. Perhaps he is making a variation on the Establishment Clause argument, or even a XIVth Amendment bid, based on an equal protection (for both religious and on religious persons, and an atheist is non religious) under the law.

Or, he may have begun this with a standard EO grievance (unfair treatment) under DoD regulations and it has turned into a lawsuit for any number of reasons.

This will be interesting to watch unfold.

DR

Seems to me the right to religious freedom includes the right not be religious. And if religious groups can organize, then why not the community of the non religious. I think he's got a case if the facts pan out.

 

[bokonon]

How is atheism a religion, again?

I think interfering with a meeting of self-proclaimed atheists would violate freedom of religion regulations even though atheism is not a religion.

Since, in this case, the meeting was for "atheists and other non-Christians," the defense won't have that leg to stand on anyway.

 

[pgwenthold]

How is atheism a religion, again?

It's not.

His objection in this case is that he is being required to have religion in order to use the facilities. He is arguing that the policy infringes on his freedom to not have a religion because his group is denied privelidges that religious groups get.

 

[Cain]

Freedom of religion is closely related to freedom of conscience and freedom of worship. Religious belief is often at the core of a person's identity, unlike, say, a favorite television show (yes, there are exceptions). The problem for non-theists is that a lack of belief in a god or gods would be completely meaningless, much like a lack of belief in dragons or pixies, if not for the fact that a lot of people believe in god(s). Atheist meetings are conducted by an large to sneer, perhaps sharpen arguments, but mostly to meet like-minded people (in my experience). Maybe religious gatherings are brought together for essentially the same purposes, but formally doing as God says, glorifying "Him," and so on. That said, the atheists should probably get their meeting because the world is a messy place.

 

[bigred]

The lawsuit filed Monday in federal court alleges a pattern of practices that discriminate against non-Christians in the military.

If he means the military in general, that's about as laughable as "the military is racist" bits which people have tried to pull in their boneheaded attempts to whine/get their way regardless of logic/etc. While specific individuals in the military may be racist (or bigoted religiously) in any given case, the military itself is pointedly and explicitly anything but, and goes out of its way to make sure this is so and people know it's so. It's not just "CYA" either; they mean it.

Then again this is an Army puke we're talking about, so stupid should be expected. My guess is it was closing time @ the MWR but he wanted to stay and they booted him out.

 

[Beerina]

It's not.

His objection in this case is that he is being required to have religion in order to use the facilities. He is arguing that the policy infringes on his freedom to not have a religion because his group is denied privelidges that religious groups get.

I believe the US Supreme Court has ruled that atheism is a religion in the sense that atheist beliefs enjoy the same First Ammendment protection as "religous" beliefs.

This would be an interesting case -- with that interpretation, it would definitely be wrong for the military to restrict use of those "religion" rooms from atheists having atheist discussions.

 

[Checkmite]

It's interesting that today soldiers try to get around orders by suing their commanders.

 

[drkitten]

It's interesting that today soldiers try to get around orders by suing their commanders.

... as is appropriate when commanders exceed their lawful authority and issue unlawful orders.

What will you do when your commander tells you to torture and execute POWs?

 

[Checkmite]

I'm not sure disallowing use of a room for a private meeting is the same as ordering someone to torture and execute POWs.

 

[Miss Anthrope]

I think the meat of the case lies here:

According to the filing, Spc. Jeremy Hall received permission to distribute flyers around his base in Iraq for a meeting of atheists and non-Christians. When he tried to convene the meeting, Hall said, Maj. Paul Welborne stepped in, threatening to file military charges against Hall and block his re-enlistment.

The lawsuit claims Hall was forced to “submit to a religious test as a qualification to his post as a soldier.” Hall and the foundation are asking the court to block Welborne from establishing “compulsory religious practices” and order Gates to prevent Welborne from interfering with Hall’s free speech rights

This is about a lot more than the use of facilities.

 

[bigred]

I'm not sure disallowing use of a room for a private meeting is the same as ordering someone to torture and execute POWs.

ya think?

PS suing one's commander is not 'appropriate' - in fact it's "N/A" and absurd. This is the military, which is quite different than the civilian world in various ways. More appropriate is not to follow the order and/or report it to one's supervisor and/or his commander's superior.

 

[Checkmite]

I think the meat of the case lies here:

Ah. Still - there's a protocol to follow, and I'm not convinced it was followed here. If you're given an illegal order, then you follow up the order-giver's chain of command until you get the results you want.