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18 Minute Error In Pentagon Collapse Time.

Arus808 said:
where did you get the 10:15 am time?
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I assume that Russell has a copy of Pentagon 9/11, which was recently published?

They explain this.

Pentagon 9/11 said:
Establishing an exact time for the collapse of the Pentagon's floors above th eimpacted E Ring area required extensive research. The Arlington County After-Action Report cited an incorrect time (9:57 am) in its Appendix 1, page 1-1, seeming to confuse the warning of a collapse with the collapse itself. Time stamped video images provide the best evidence for 10:15 a.m. as the time of the collapse. See WUSA 9 News video, David Statter reporting from the Pentagon, and ABC News video.
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If you take a look at this video:



You will notice, that the roofline has already partially collapsed, before the entire section collapses. I would think it is possible, as speculated, that the roofline somewhat collapsed at 9:57, with the total failure occurring at 10:15.
 
Kryptos said:
Establishing an exact time for the collapse of the Pentagon's floors above th eimpacted E Ring area required extensive research. The Arlington County After-Action Report cited an incorrect time (9:57 am) in its Appendix 1, page 1-1, seeming to confuse the warning of a collapse with the collapse itself. Time stamped video images provide the best evidence for 10:15 a.m. as the time of the collapse. See WUSA 9 News video, David Statter reporting from the Pentagon, and ABC News video.
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Ah, an even better explanation. Thanks!
 
Russell Pickering said:
Finally useful information.

The WUSA9 videographer said he contacted ACFD about the time discrepancy based on his time stamp.

I have exactly the same recording as they do and was able to figure out the 10:15 time in seconds. despite my not wanting to explain CenCom to Arkan they do have the time of all transmissions recorded.

18 minutes seems like a big discrepancy.
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Still as much of an intellectually dishonest waste of bandwidth as ever. You don't present evidence, you just claim to have it. You won't provide citations. You won't make data you claim to have available to others. [sarcasm]Way to try to overthrow the man![/sarcasm]
 
It seems, that the roofline already descended immediately after the impact.
 
leftysergeant said:
Okay, Russel, I will for the moment, give you some credit for not jumping up and down and shrieking that the whole fabric of the official theory has unraveled before our eyes.

The theory that "it" is used to refer to the evacuation is the more reasonable explanation.

The collapse, from the videos I have seen, appears to start out ratrher slowly. This is consistant with the way that structures at least partially built of wooden elements collapse. The columns in the most severely-damaged part of the first floor were, if I read the documents and analyse the pics correctly, wood inside a concrete sheath in at lkeast some areas, while outhers appear to be represented as reinforced concrete, albeit of relatively light construction. Either would give way slowly at first in a fire. There may well have already been stuff falling loose from the building before the evacuation. Certainly, what appear to be rather massive sections of floor or ceiling are sen sagging at the front edge in most exterior shots of the building during fire fighting.

So, there is the possibilty that the collapse began at or about 0957 and ended at 1015.

Have I adequately muddied that answer?
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Lefty,

Your thoughtfulness is appreciated.

This was the renovated section and wood was not used. I won't go into the details of the actual construction but am very familiar with them.

The lean to collapse was very sudden. Yes - there was a sagging of the roof line for some time and interior operations indicated partial interior collapse (they were just told to proceed with caution). But later you can listen to the urgency of the abandon building sequence which took place at the final collapse.

Here is video of the collapse proper.

http://www.archive.org/details/cbs200109110954-1036

Start at 20:27 in.

I believe my question has been answered by Magenta. Knowing there was concession made by the Commission for different times is important.

Thank you Magenta and Lefty and Wolfman.

The rest of you are in need of research and integrity!
 
Wolfman,

I retract my compliment.

I had the benefit of listening to ALL of the transmission tapes and watching private video.

Your rhetorical crap is silly.

There was one building evacuation and one fireground evacuation.

Talking with people who have a couple of hours of Pentagon understanding is pointless.

I was hoping for a couple of your honorable members.

YOU MUST REALIZE many of you are only a upside down and backwards conspiracy theorist. EXACTLY the same qaulitatively!!!!!!
 
Kryptos gets added to the real spirit of a skeptic too.

Thank you for the good info.

David is the videographer and is the one who contacted ACFD.
 
Edited by chillzero: 
Quoted post moved to AAH


I have to admit, you brought in a topic I had never thoroughly considered before. The correctness of the collapse time of the Pentagon. It's much less know, than the time of WTC collapse. Other aspects of the Pentagon are far more familiar.

What is your take on Pentagon anyway, Russell? I see you have debunked many of the more lunatic theories. Have you any theories of your own, or are you basically believing the so-called official story?
 
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Kryptos said:
I assume that Russell has a copy of Pentagon 9/11, which was recently published?

They explain this.
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I do not have a copy of this.

You have 100% answered my question.

I knew there was a nugget in the mud.

Can you point me to this document?
 
Russell, thanks for bringing this up, and Kryptos, thanks for backing it up.

Here's the thing I have a problem with:
Pentagon 9/11 said:
...seeming to confuse the warning of a collapse with the collapse itself
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We all know that's impossible!

Sounds like we're done here. Good night.
 
ref said:
I have to admit, you brought in a topic I had never thoroughly considered before. The correctness of the collapse time of the Pentagon. It's much less know, than the time of WTC collapse. Other aspects of the Pentagon are far more familiar.

What is your take on Pentagon anyway, Russell? I see you have debunked many of the more lunatic theories. Have you any theories of your own, or are you basically believing the so-called official story?
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ref,

I am a CT.

I differentiate myself from hard core CT's.

I believe 100% that AA77 with said passengers and crew impacted the Pentagon.

I do not believe Hani was in control. I have ZERO proof for this. It is a BELIEF and as far as I know the country I have served allows me to do this.

I also believe that 9/11 was the justification for invading the Middle East 27 days later.

I believe the primary organization involved in this was the PNAC.

I see all sides of the issue. I get as mad at the hard core kooks as people here do at me.

I have done real and honest time looking into this.

I like certain people here and have learned a lot. The info I gained today here would not have been found in the CT world.

A few insults was worth it!
 
Gravy said:
Russell, thanks for bringing this up, and Kryptos, thanks for backing it up.

Here's the thing I have a problem with:


We all know that's impossible!

Sounds like we're done here. Good night.
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hey Gravy,

I have spent all day on this. I found the data I was seeking.

Russell
 
Russell Pickering said:
ref,

I am a CT.

I differentiate myself from hard core CT's.

I believe 100% that AA77 with said passengers and crew impacted the Pentagon.

I do not believe Hani was in control. I have ZERO proof for this. It is a BELIEF and as far as I know the country I have served allows me to do this.

I also believe that 9/11 was the justification for invading the Middle East 27 days later.

I believe the primary organization involved in this was the PNAC.

I see all sides of the issue. I get as mad at the hard core kooks as people here do at me.

I have done real and honest time looking into this.

I like certain people here and have learned a lot. The info I gained today here would not have been found in the CT world.

A few insults was worth it!
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Ok, thanks for clearing that up. Welcome back for more discussions, they are always better here than in CT forums.

And thanks Russell. I have to admit, you were correct about the time. Most of us were wrong. Not that it has any affect on any conspiracy theory whatsoever, but it's refreshing to find out something new once in a while. We cannot wipe every word of even the known theorists under the rug immediately. If it's a claim we are not very familiar with, like this one, we must research it before running into conclusions. Thanks for this reminder, Russell. As for the other CT stuff, I disagree 100% with you. But that's another topic :cool:
 
This has been a pretty interesting foray into how initial reports can be wrong, due to confusion and conflicting information, or just plain poor wording, and how those innacuracies can be repeated and continue to linger on even after more accurate information in available.

But, I am wondering - if the official times were indeed wrong and there had not been a ready, sensible explaination, such as we seem to have found, what would the implications have been as far as conspiracy theories regarding the Pentagon are concerned? Sometimes with Russell and the other "more sensible / honest" conspiracy theorists, it's hard to tell if they are trying to connect dots with their own theories, or debunk some of the more crazy stuff that other people come up with.

[offtopic]Hey Russ, if you get a chance, check your PM's from roughly 6 months ago. Thanks.[/offtopic]
 
This actually reminds me of the infamous "BBC read the script of WTC7 too early" topic. They initially had the collapse time too early as well. Not that there was any conspiracy either.
 
I battled earlier today myself against the people who brought this up. I was wrong.

I researched it and found they were right.

Kryptos put the icing on the cake and everything is good.

I know we disagree on the big picture.

That is fine.
 
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