Also, if you don't find the courses sufficiently challenging, have you tried asking the lecturers what else you could look at? Obviously be tactful, but I'd expect that most would be very happy to suggest additional more advanced reading, if a particular area interests you.
Please help me snap out of it!
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Also, if you don't find the courses sufficiently challenging, have you tried asking the lecturers what else you could look at? Obviously be tactful, but I'd expect that most would be very happy to suggest additional more advanced reading, if a particular area interests you.
phyz
Muse
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The good news is that you've got access to some pretty smart and well-balanced people right here. And some very good suggested readings, too.
For regular injections of reassurance that there are nice people out in the world doing skepticism/critical thinking, tune in to the Skepticality podcast.
One last thing: be patient. Now that you know where you want to go, rest assured that you'll get there. But it will take time. And that's OK.
Complexity
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Don't pay any attention to the IQ score that you were given, and by all means don't allow yourself to be limited by it.
We have no idea of the conditions under which the test was taken, which test was taken, or any extenuating circumstances. Also, not all of us are convinced that it means much.
We have no idea of the conditions under which the test was taken, which test was taken, or any extenuating circumstances. Also, not all of us are convinced that it means much.
six7s
veretic
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All is not lost!
With that in mind, it seems you might qualify for the MDC
On a more serious note, its clear that you already have critical-thinking skills, that allow you to see that there is more to life than simply accepting "the hows and whats that society feeds us" and you ARE one of the "people who ask WHY"
Absolutely!
Despite the gender bias in Boswell's language, the sentiment is as true today as it ever was
With three languages to choose from, literacy, access to books and the internet literally at your finger tips, your capacity for experience is immeasurable!
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SynapticDancer
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Depending on the public education system, or a "mediocre" college to teach critical thinking skills is like planting a pebble and expecting a flower to grow.
In addition, what you describe sounds more like learned helplessness. Seeking stimulation from some external source as your only means of motivation, and then blaming the environment for not delivering on your expectations (rendering you bored) is like spending your days praying to god for wealth and blaming that god for your poverty.
Your mind and your life are not things that simply happen to you while you remain an innocent bystander unable to effect the outcome. You are a part of the process, and your actions and decisions lead you where you are. You were not forced to do poorly high school, and you are not forced to do poorly in college either.
You don't feel challenged by your curriculum, so you are left with no choice but to do poorly? Well then guess what, you're never going to end up in an environment that will challenge you.
I'm not going to recommend books, websites or anything else. You managed to find this one all on your own, so I know you are capable of doing more. Besides, thinking isn't mimicking the actions of others. You wrote that you want to be around people who don't just listen to the hows and whats that society feeds them, so why are you asking to be fed these very things? It will be much more rewarding (ahem..challenging) if you find your own sources for creative thought and insight. Critical thinking isn't a set of ideas, it is the process of developing or finding, examining and accepting/rejecting ideas.
My only advice, since you did ask, is that you stop allocating responsibility and blame for your situation and boredom, and create your own challenges, questions, insights and discoveries.
I wish you many happy, intellectual adventures.
In addition, what you describe sounds more like learned helplessness. Seeking stimulation from some external source as your only means of motivation, and then blaming the environment for not delivering on your expectations (rendering you bored) is like spending your days praying to god for wealth and blaming that god for your poverty.
Your mind and your life are not things that simply happen to you while you remain an innocent bystander unable to effect the outcome. You are a part of the process, and your actions and decisions lead you where you are. You were not forced to do poorly high school, and you are not forced to do poorly in college either.
You don't feel challenged by your curriculum, so you are left with no choice but to do poorly? Well then guess what, you're never going to end up in an environment that will challenge you.
I'm not going to recommend books, websites or anything else. You managed to find this one all on your own, so I know you are capable of doing more. Besides, thinking isn't mimicking the actions of others. You wrote that you want to be around people who don't just listen to the hows and whats that society feeds them, so why are you asking to be fed these very things? It will be much more rewarding (ahem..challenging) if you find your own sources for creative thought and insight. Critical thinking isn't a set of ideas, it is the process of developing or finding, examining and accepting/rejecting ideas.
My only advice, since you did ask, is that you stop allocating responsibility and blame for your situation and boredom, and create your own challenges, questions, insights and discoveries.
I wish you many happy, intellectual adventures.
Andronicus
Critical Thinker
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- 283
Self motivation is a necessary part of maturity. If you want to answer to bells all your life on an assembly line or in a department store, you only need enough motivation to show up. If you want to truly want to improve yourself, better yourself, you need to motivate yourself.
Is there a specific topic you're interested in, I'm sure this group is aching to give you more specific book recommendations.
Is there a specific topic you're interested in, I'm sure this group is aching to give you more specific book recommendations.
Is there a specific topic you're interested in, I'm sure this group is aching to give you more specific book recommendations.
Is there a specific topic you're interested in, I'm sure this group is aching to give you more specific book recommendations.
Tokenconservative
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Not sure how old you are LB222, but you are going to look long and hard to find any critical thinking courses of study these days in any public school and most/all public colleges, and most private ones, too.
When I took the honors course of study in Critical Thinking in college (mid 90s) that's just what it was: learning to think critically and putting that in to practice. Already, at that time, this course was under unrelenting attack from a far-left-leaning admin. that did not like its "direction."
This is the attitude you will find today, almost without exception, in which "critical thinking" means finding ways to be critical of the "status quo" (so long as that means an ideologically, socio-culturally and of course politically conservative status quo).
Of course there ar books out there across all areas of study, including those specifically aimed at training yourself to think critically.
I recommend the following to get you started:
The Art of Thinking (A guide...) by Vincent Ryan Ruggiero,
Asking the Right Questions, M. Niel Brown/Stuart M. Keeley,
and of course,
The Structures of Scientific Revolutions, Thoma S. Kuhn.
Best,
Tokie
When I took the honors course of study in Critical Thinking in college (mid 90s) that's just what it was: learning to think critically and putting that in to practice. Already, at that time, this course was under unrelenting attack from a far-left-leaning admin. that did not like its "direction."
This is the attitude you will find today, almost without exception, in which "critical thinking" means finding ways to be critical of the "status quo" (so long as that means an ideologically, socio-culturally and of course politically conservative status quo).
Of course there ar books out there across all areas of study, including those specifically aimed at training yourself to think critically.
I recommend the following to get you started:
The Art of Thinking (A guide...) by Vincent Ryan Ruggiero,
Asking the Right Questions, M. Niel Brown/Stuart M. Keeley,
and of course,
The Structures of Scientific Revolutions, Thoma S. Kuhn.
Best,
Tokie
Tokenconservative
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And they say _I_ am caustic.....
A bit harsh, I think. Not entirely off the mark, but fails to take into account a number of things, especially what sociologists call "life chances." I don't know enough about the OP to speak intelligently, but if this is some smart kid in a very poor rural or inner-city (by the way: demographics suggest we are soon going to have to change the way we look at the "inner city" in this regard...'nother time) who has "mediocre" parents and is facing all the problems a public schools situation such as this provides, he may have a good reason to be whining.
I remember a guy I knew, grew up in a professional household (dad was a engineer, mom a banker--not a teller, the lady RAN the bank) in an upper-middle-class environment; good schooling, parents intently involved in and interested in their kids' educations and personal/emotional and social lives, etc., etc.
He used to rail for hours about those unable to "pick themselves up by their bootstraps" and get an MIT education just like he did...that his parents paid for.
Gee, yeah...good point.
Tokie
TubeMonkey
New Blood
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Is this really how Critical Thinking courses are taught now? Its been about 15 years since I was in school, but I remember a very positive History lesson regarding WWII. It taught us how to identify primary, secondary sources, what to look for in propaganda, and to try and think of the influences upon the people/person writing the documents. We were set the task of finding 6 or 7 reports of the same news story, finding out what they had in common, how they differed, and if we could find any other external evidence that could back up the information they contained. This lesson really made an impression on me, and I think most of the others in the class. It definitely opened my eyes as to the accuracy of the average newspaper story!
Wow thank you all so much for your responses. I especially enjoyed lmb2150's post as you brought up some very good points. By the way someone asked how old I am, I am 22.
I have been thinking about my life a lot recently, trying to disect it into main thoughts and ideas, which unconsciously I follow on a day to day basis. Specifically I have been looking at my issues with not being motivated, as lmb2150 touched on.
I looked back and think I have pinpointed the main ideas, which keep me from being self motivated (hopefully this post doesn't come out too much like a family therapy session).
From a very young age my parents always had me in various extra-curiculars, which I did not choose to do; basketball, boyscouts,clarinet, piano, guitar, etc. They would brag about me to their friends/familiy and put the spot light on me, making me do things like perform piano songs at every family function. The problem was that I was always shy and I never wanted to do these things (this would make them angry). I always felt like I was not good enough and I also felt angry that I was always being tested to see if I was good enough.I now realize that my parents just loved me and wanted to show me off to their friends. I also realized that they would accept me regardless of what I did.
I have decided to reject the following idea, which I created at a young age: Don't give people the satisfaction of qualifying you by your merrits. Don't try at all and then they can't qualify you at all.
I instead have now chose to replace the old idea with this new one: The only person that can know whether or not you are good enough is YOU. In the end how others feel about you is not as important as how YOU feel about yourself.
In lieu of all of this my view on life has changed tremendously. My goals used to be extreme, setting them to what I thought others would find impressive. I now have realistic goals, set by me for me. I don't need a 4.0 GPA and setting such a goal is setting me up for failure since I've never gotten over a 2.5 GPA.In reality I would be happy with a 3.25 (my current goal), and this is a challenging goal and it is MINE so I am motivated to take this on (once I reach a 3.25 we will see what challenge I will set for myself then).
I feel as though I am taking a step in the right direction. I find myself very confused at times and at other times frustrated, almost as if everything I know is wrong but I am enjoying every moment of it.
I have been thinking about my life a lot recently, trying to disect it into main thoughts and ideas, which unconsciously I follow on a day to day basis. Specifically I have been looking at my issues with not being motivated, as lmb2150 touched on.
I looked back and think I have pinpointed the main ideas, which keep me from being self motivated (hopefully this post doesn't come out too much like a family therapy session).
From a very young age my parents always had me in various extra-curiculars, which I did not choose to do; basketball, boyscouts,clarinet, piano, guitar, etc. They would brag about me to their friends/familiy and put the spot light on me, making me do things like perform piano songs at every family function. The problem was that I was always shy and I never wanted to do these things (this would make them angry). I always felt like I was not good enough and I also felt angry that I was always being tested to see if I was good enough.I now realize that my parents just loved me and wanted to show me off to their friends. I also realized that they would accept me regardless of what I did.
I have decided to reject the following idea, which I created at a young age: Don't give people the satisfaction of qualifying you by your merrits. Don't try at all and then they can't qualify you at all.
I instead have now chose to replace the old idea with this new one: The only person that can know whether or not you are good enough is YOU. In the end how others feel about you is not as important as how YOU feel about yourself.
In lieu of all of this my view on life has changed tremendously. My goals used to be extreme, setting them to what I thought others would find impressive. I now have realistic goals, set by me for me. I don't need a 4.0 GPA and setting such a goal is setting me up for failure since I've never gotten over a 2.5 GPA.In reality I would be happy with a 3.25 (my current goal), and this is a challenging goal and it is MINE so I am motivated to take this on (once I reach a 3.25 we will see what challenge I will set for myself then).
I feel as though I am taking a step in the right direction. I find myself very confused at times and at other times frustrated, almost as if everything I know is wrong but I am enjoying every moment of it.
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As well as the books already recommended, I find that podcasts really help me keep in touch with my skeptical nature. Get subscribed to "The Skeptics Guide to the Universe", "Skepticality", and "Skeptoid". They mostly discuss scientific and religious subjects.
To really keep your skeptical juices flowing, you should also keep up on the media and the way they spin things.. Not sure how to do that in the USA, which is where I think you're from..
In Australia there's a program called "Media watch" on TV which you can download over bittorrent.
If you're ever in london, come to "Skeptics in the Pub". There's one tomorrow (Tuesday) night. It's skepticism, with beer!!
To really keep your skeptical juices flowing, you should also keep up on the media and the way they spin things.. Not sure how to do that in the USA, which is where I think you're from..
In Australia there's a program called "Media watch" on TV which you can download over bittorrent.
If you're ever in london, come to "Skeptics in the Pub". There's one tomorrow (Tuesday) night. It's skepticism, with beer!!
Tokenconservative
Banned
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Most assuredly in high school, though there its not a course of study, but rather interwoven throughout the curriculum.
I haven't been in college in a few years, either, but I get the feeling that's the case there now, too. When I was studying Critical Thinking in college oh, 10-12 years ago now, the program was under assault by the administration (one prof. I grew close to admitted that the college pres. was pretty serious about shutting them down entirely) and the reason was pretty clear: they were teaching us HOW to think, rather than WHAT to think. Virtually all of my other Liberal Arts classes were about teaching me what to think....
Of course, they were, even by that time, pretty good at camoflaging it through various pretty effective means of bias and slant and by means of subtle threats on your grades and financial aid. They couldn't go after my grades (I was getting my papers published and being invited to present them all over the country, after all) but they could--and did--"get" me through financial aid.
Tokie
Tokenconservative
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At the risk of feeding into your therapy session AND of sounding like I am trying to be your dad, your new approach lacks something.
It sounds to me as if your parents were simply trying too hard to find something for you, and to live up to the expectations of our society (I am assuming you are American--or at least living in America). Yes, lots of parents are messing their kids up with all these extracurricular activities. Some kids take to it like a fish to water, others like a fish to a concrete sidewalk on a hot day.
Parents, by the way, are not perfect. Yours at least, appear to have had your best interests at heart.
Very lucky for you. You picked your parents fairly wisely.
Call it wisdom, if you will (though that will get me in trouble because I doubt very much my own wisdom and have already been told in here that I don't have any...not a surprise to me, that I don't, by the way).
Here is the reality of living and working (they go hand-in-hand, unless you are independently wealthy) in the real world: you will always be judged. Pre-work, judging by our peers matters not in the least. At college you are judged by your profs. on your ability to, often, regurgitate data, but in some cases, your ability to actually demonstrate understanding of the information.
Then you enter the work world (presumably). If you do so with the attitude you are expressing above (if not modified), you are in for a very, very tough time of it. Young people often enter the work world certain that the "fogeys" about them "just don't get it" and that they just need to "move aside" for the younger generations.
Maybe that's true. But the reality is (again, in general, mayhaps your dad or mom will get you on as a sr. VP where he works right out of college, I don't know) that those who've come before you in your chosen field, whether that's night stocking at Wal-Mart or brain surgery know things you do not, including how to get along in the business world.
I suggest that rather than rejecting wholesale what "they" (not your peers, keep in mind...for the most part your are safe in rejecting their criticisms) offer as criticism of just about everything you do for the first oh, 10 years or so, that you pay attention to it. As you mature and learn a profession you will of course learn what you CAN reject out of hand as petty, or jealousy or just stupidity. That's not saying you should let some "fogey" on the job at the print shop send you looking for the "striped ink," but I hope you take my meaning.
I think, if you adopt what you outline above, it's going to be many, many years before you'll find any sort of professional success (if ever) and will be very unhappy in your professional life, something that will spill over into your personal life.
Now, if you are in Old Europe (excluding GB) you can just laugh at this. If you are Asian...I have no idea how things work there, so you can dismiss it entirely. This is only "fatherly" advice if you are in America.
You are very much mistaken to take on the attitude that it only matters how YOU feel about YOU. Not in the work world, anyway. Probably not in your personal life, either. While it's a good idea to, as quickly as possible shed the High School Musical attitudes so many of us are saddled with (who is a geek, a nerd, a jock, a ______and where that puts them in the pecking order in that least important of places in all our life: high school), and while you read/hear/see much that says you should ignore others' criticisms of you you do so at your own peril. If a colleague on your first job suggests that wearing a t-shirt with Che on it to your job at an investment company is something of a policy no-no...you can reject that criticism based upon your "I do it MY way!" new attitude...and either get fired or never advance, certainly, or you can give that some thought and try to understand WHY that might not be welcome there.
In the end, you are gonna do what you are gonna do. But I'd take a very hard look at your above "new approach" to life before instituting it.
Your goal-setting approach, I like. Seems very rational and "doable." At 22, you should be setting some goal for "after school" too. Not "a billianaire by 40!" goals, but thngs more down to earth, like your grade improvement goal.
There would be something seriously wrong with you if, at 22, you were not frequently confused. Please stop paying attention to all the media you are bombarded with that tells you that at your age, you should be living in a mansion, driving a Ferarri, dating 6 supermodels and already retired to your own private island in the Caribean.
Um...for most of us, it does not work out that way, regardless of what all thes images in the media tell us. Funny, that. Just as for most of us we don't have the kinds of parents our media tells us all we should have: either horrific monsters or people who are our mentors and friends. Mostly, parents fall somewhere in the middle...muddling through the best they can, dealing with their own doubts about raising (you) on top of the same professional issues you will soon be facing.
Perhaps you should go to them with some of these questions, but if they are not the kind of people you can do that with (mine certainly weren't) then you might look to some other sources for such mentoring. Indeed, there are many actual Mentoring organizations out there.
And of course, now would be a good time to begin picking and choosing that advice you find most useful.
Tokie
It sounds to me as if your parents were simply trying too hard to find something for you, and to live up to the expectations of our society (I am assuming you are American--or at least living in America). Yes, lots of parents are messing their kids up with all these extracurricular activities. Some kids take to it like a fish to water, others like a fish to a concrete sidewalk on a hot day.
Parents, by the way, are not perfect. Yours at least, appear to have had your best interests at heart.
Very lucky for you. You picked your parents fairly wisely.
Call it wisdom, if you will (though that will get me in trouble because I doubt very much my own wisdom and have already been told in here that I don't have any...not a surprise to me, that I don't, by the way).
Here is the reality of living and working (they go hand-in-hand, unless you are independently wealthy) in the real world: you will always be judged. Pre-work, judging by our peers matters not in the least. At college you are judged by your profs. on your ability to, often, regurgitate data, but in some cases, your ability to actually demonstrate understanding of the information.
Then you enter the work world (presumably). If you do so with the attitude you are expressing above (if not modified), you are in for a very, very tough time of it. Young people often enter the work world certain that the "fogeys" about them "just don't get it" and that they just need to "move aside" for the younger generations.
Maybe that's true. But the reality is (again, in general, mayhaps your dad or mom will get you on as a sr. VP where he works right out of college, I don't know) that those who've come before you in your chosen field, whether that's night stocking at Wal-Mart or brain surgery know things you do not, including how to get along in the business world.
I suggest that rather than rejecting wholesale what "they" (not your peers, keep in mind...for the most part your are safe in rejecting their criticisms) offer as criticism of just about everything you do for the first oh, 10 years or so, that you pay attention to it. As you mature and learn a profession you will of course learn what you CAN reject out of hand as petty, or jealousy or just stupidity. That's not saying you should let some "fogey" on the job at the print shop send you looking for the "striped ink," but I hope you take my meaning.
I think, if you adopt what you outline above, it's going to be many, many years before you'll find any sort of professional success (if ever) and will be very unhappy in your professional life, something that will spill over into your personal life.
Now, if you are in Old Europe (excluding GB) you can just laugh at this. If you are Asian...I have no idea how things work there, so you can dismiss it entirely. This is only "fatherly" advice if you are in America.
You are very much mistaken to take on the attitude that it only matters how YOU feel about YOU. Not in the work world, anyway. Probably not in your personal life, either. While it's a good idea to, as quickly as possible shed the High School Musical attitudes so many of us are saddled with (who is a geek, a nerd, a jock, a ______and where that puts them in the pecking order in that least important of places in all our life: high school), and while you read/hear/see much that says you should ignore others' criticisms of you you do so at your own peril. If a colleague on your first job suggests that wearing a t-shirt with Che on it to your job at an investment company is something of a policy no-no...you can reject that criticism based upon your "I do it MY way!" new attitude...and either get fired or never advance, certainly, or you can give that some thought and try to understand WHY that might not be welcome there.
In the end, you are gonna do what you are gonna do. But I'd take a very hard look at your above "new approach" to life before instituting it.
Your goal-setting approach, I like. Seems very rational and "doable." At 22, you should be setting some goal for "after school" too. Not "a billianaire by 40!" goals, but thngs more down to earth, like your grade improvement goal.
There would be something seriously wrong with you if, at 22, you were not frequently confused. Please stop paying attention to all the media you are bombarded with that tells you that at your age, you should be living in a mansion, driving a Ferarri, dating 6 supermodels and already retired to your own private island in the Caribean.
Um...for most of us, it does not work out that way, regardless of what all thes images in the media tell us. Funny, that. Just as for most of us we don't have the kinds of parents our media tells us all we should have: either horrific monsters or people who are our mentors and friends. Mostly, parents fall somewhere in the middle...muddling through the best they can, dealing with their own doubts about raising (you) on top of the same professional issues you will soon be facing.
Perhaps you should go to them with some of these questions, but if they are not the kind of people you can do that with (mine certainly weren't) then you might look to some other sources for such mentoring. Indeed, there are many actual Mentoring organizations out there.
And of course, now would be a good time to begin picking and choosing that advice you find most useful.
Tokie
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2006
- Messages
- 54,545
This looks more like a lack of industriousness. If you where not challenged you would have been getting better grades.
Now overcoming personal tendencies for being basically lazy can be very difficult and it certainly has given me problems, but I do realize that it is my fault not the intuitions I attended.
Sure it might have helped if I had not been able to squeeze by with minimal effort, but I am not sure if that would have made me industrious or just fail out.
genesplicer
Critical Thinker
In addition to the books listed in the above posts, I would recommend the Foundation for Critical thinking. it has a web presence at critical thinking dot org. I have used their materials extensively in my own classes.
Tokenconservative
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Have to agree. My parents paid no attention at all to my schooling after about the 2nd grade, and since I came up in those halcyon, pre-testing, "liberal" social-laboratory days of the 60s and 70s, I pretty much did nothing from 3rd grade on, and still managed to graduate.
However, perhaps because of this, I recognize that it's a bit tougher to pull yourself up by your own bootstraps for some people than others. But this young man seems ot have had parents who were perhaps a bit overboard in the attention they paid to his education, but by his description were clearly "there" for him. I don't have any way of knowing what he's left unsaid, however.
One thing I can guarantee this young man: the quicker you either get an effective kick in the ass, or effectively kick yourSELF in the ass and start getting on with getting on, the better. The longer you spend wallowing in self-pity about a past you cannot change (and which he appears not to have taken advantage of...but there it is) and work toward making your own life better for you and YOUR family (since you will most likely have one one day) the better off you will be.
Or, you can assume, as do so many at this age (myself included) that any old fogey offering you such advice "just doesn't get it" and is stupid, anyway, and wind up 20-30 years from now kicking yourself for not kicking yourself 20 or 30 years ago.
Tokie
SynapticDancer
Thinker
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- Aug 11, 2007
- Messages
- 132
L2B22, you stated a goal of a 3.25 GPA, but can you think of a learning goal to correspond to that outcome?
I know that grades are important (I'm still a student myself), but I think we tend to loose focus on the fact that the way in which we go about earning a grade (and we do earn one, they are not bestowed upon us) is by learning.
So I ask you, what are some things you would like to learn? In any area you like, but try to think of some specifc things.
I know that grades are important (I'm still a student myself), but I think we tend to loose focus on the fact that the way in which we go about earning a grade (and we do earn one, they are not bestowed upon us) is by learning.
So I ask you, what are some things you would like to learn? In any area you like, but try to think of some specifc things.
SynapticDancer
Thinker
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- Aug 11, 2007
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- 132
Tokenconservative (Tokie)
I agree that most younger people tend to reject the advise from the older-then-them as being outdated relics of a time gown by. I myself am still young, but I remember being 18 and thinking every teacher and adult I interacted with was an idiot and that I was the only one who truly understood things.
Needless to say I was wrong (although not all the time
)
However, I think an important part of the experience is messing up and realizing that you, in fact, infallible and all-knowing.
To quote Epictetus, "It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows"
I agree that most younger people tend to reject the advise from the older-then-them as being outdated relics of a time gown by. I myself am still young, but I remember being 18 and thinking every teacher and adult I interacted with was an idiot and that I was the only one who truly understood things.
Needless to say I was wrong (although not all the time
) However, I think an important part of the experience is messing up and realizing that you, in fact, infallible and all-knowing.
To quote Epictetus, "It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows"
LostAngeles
Penultimate Amazing
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L2B22 sounds like me but without the trilingualism and extra-curricular activities. My mom, whether being possessed of her own b.s. detector or as an offshoot of her ability to, "squeeze a nickel until it bled," as my grandfather (her father) put it, taught me to be skeptical of commercials and many brand names. If she did use a brand name, it was because she knew it was good stuff. Since she also taught me about propaganda and actually demonstrated FMS on my sister, it was probably the former more than the latter. She also had the good sense to let me figure stuff out on my own.
I also had a mediocre education for the most part and was able to easily slack through honors classes and pass. Many of my teachers felt it necessary to go through a half-hearted song and dance about why I should go to college. I did, and promptly flunked out.
It wasn't until I read Sagan's Demon Haunted World that I realized what I wanted to do. In the meantime, I moved to CA for other reasons, but was able to take advantage of their very good community college system and that the public universities of CA are required to pick their transfer students out of the CA community colleges first.
Like others have said, the best thing to do is to educate yourself. Hang out at the library or the bookstore and just read up on things you're interested in. Go to a section of stuff you're interested in, read a chapter or two, and if you like it, check it out/buy it and bring it home.
Hang out here and start/participate in threads. Ask questions and take into consideration the answers here. Being here is probably a good chunk of why I did so well in my Critical Thinking class: I was practicing here.
And if you want more social aspects of it, join the IRC channel (www.skepticsrock.com), hang out in Community, and keep an eye out for mention of any local events.
Oh, and it should go without saying: COME TO TAM.
I also had a mediocre education for the most part and was able to easily slack through honors classes and pass. Many of my teachers felt it necessary to go through a half-hearted song and dance about why I should go to college. I did, and promptly flunked out.
It wasn't until I read Sagan's Demon Haunted World that I realized what I wanted to do. In the meantime, I moved to CA for other reasons, but was able to take advantage of their very good community college system and that the public universities of CA are required to pick their transfer students out of the CA community colleges first.
Like others have said, the best thing to do is to educate yourself. Hang out at the library or the bookstore and just read up on things you're interested in. Go to a section of stuff you're interested in, read a chapter or two, and if you like it, check it out/buy it and bring it home.
Hang out here and start/participate in threads. Ask questions and take into consideration the answers here. Being here is probably a good chunk of why I did so well in my Critical Thinking class: I was practicing here.
And if you want more social aspects of it, join the IRC channel (www.skepticsrock.com), hang out in Community, and keep an eye out for mention of any local events.
Oh, and it should go without saying: COME TO TAM.
Last edited:
SynapticDancer
Thinker
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2007
- Messages
- 132
Good example, but can you think of one where a poor kid without these life chances you reference did go on to pursue an ivy league education?
I think there is a difference between picking yourself up by your bootstraps (which admittedly, is hard) and getting angry at the bootstraps for failing to pick you up.
And besides, maybe some time ago a persons fate was a bit harder to avoid if the circumstances prevented such mobility. Nowadays with the internet there is some much information at a persons fingertips it is not all that hard to learn anything (and everything) that you want to if you are willing to put in the time.
I think L2B22 is going to do just great in life, once he decides he wants to.