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Proof of God

Isn’t it amazing how people know everything about their so-called god, what it likes, what it doesn’t like, the list is almost endless and they know everything about that so-called god of theirs, but asked them why they like something like cherry-pie, and they haven't got a clue.

Paul

:) :) :)

Makes you what to throw-up.
 
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Hardenbergh said:
God became man through Jesus Christ.



http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=536
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Title of the link paper, "Why God Became Man".

Simple version: God got mad at Adam and Eve for disobedience even though God put the temptation in the Garden and allowed the serpent to encourage the disobedience. Then God punished other people for years as if it was the other people who disobeyed and regardless of whether or not they obeyed God themselves.

Then God decided to let those same people torture and kill God, (if you accept Jesus is God and not God's son. If not, then substitute God's son for God in the story. Of course then you have to get into why Jesus is a better child of God than we are, but we'll leave that out of today's story for simplicity.) Being tortured and killed, made God or (God's son) feel like forgiving people as long as they believed God let himself (or his son) get tortured and killed so God could forgive them.

But even if you believe that and God forgives you for something you never did, God still doesn't stop punishing you. Some men toil and some don't regardless of their status with God. And women had their burden lifted if they have access to modern anesthesia since Eve's punishment was to have pain during childbirth. That was a couple thousand years after Jesus, but who noticed? And atheists like me must have been forgiven since I had anesthesia with the birth of my son.
 
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Mangafranga said:
I would never claim a premise is valid. If we are talking logic, then validity is a feature of arguments, not premises. I would have no problem with saying the premise is well formed, or coherent, or meaningful (as a premise). I don't have a position on its truth value.
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Valid as in well grounded or justifiable.
 
Paulhoff said:
Isn’t it amazing how people know everything about their so-called god, what it likes, what it doesn’t like, the list is almost endless and they know everything about that so-called god of theirs, but asked them why they like something like cherry-pie, and they having got a clue.
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Isn't it amazing how people edit their one sentence post and still manage to get it wrong. :D

....and I'm sure you know everything about what 4D curved space is like. ;)


Or, perhaps you having got a clue. :D


regards,
BillyJoe
(A victim of the "killer" 'flu', who may soon find out the TRUTH. :) :()
 
Just have a simple question to pose. 'WHY' does there have to be a god?

No-one will ever prove that there is one and neither will anyone prove the opposite. All the words that have been used in this thread are just that, words, yet nobody has ever actually shown proof of existence or proof of non-existence (sorry about negative-positive). I would have to think that other than lots more words and opinions, there isn't any!!!

So all we are left with is: WHY. Can anyone tell me why there needs or has, to be one.

There has to some simple two sentence reason WHY this being needs to exist, otherwise everything about the deity is 'stuff' we humans imagined. And, if we can imagine Freddie Kruger, then we can imagine almost anything.

Because: isn't a valid answer.
 
RandFan said:
I thought ws the whole point

Proposition: (logic) a statement that affirms or denies something and is either true or false.
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And to have a valid argument you need a set of propositions (I wonder if theorems could count). The proposition isn't valid by itself, only the argument is valid. This is just a pedantic point though, of no great importance (lest the ghost of logic 1 hit me on the head).
Robin said:
Valid as in well grounded or justifiable.
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Then no, I don't consider it well grounded or justifiable. But I am just going to neglect taking any position on it at all.
 
PBTree said:
There has to some simple two sentence reason WHY this being needs to exist, otherwise everything about the deity is 'stuff' we humans imagined. And, if we can imagine Freddie Kruger, then we can imagine almost anything.

Because: isn't a valid answer.
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How about cuz all things are created by him and for him. God is the one thing that defines us and gives us purpose. We are here to give glory to God. He created us for fellowship with him and eachother. How's that for pinpointing it a bit.
 
Mangafranga said:
And to have a valid argument you need a set of propositions (I wonder if theorems could count). The proposition isn't valid by itself, only the argument is valid. This is just a pedantic point though, of no great importance (lest the ghost of logic 1 hit me on the head).Then no, I don't consider it well grounded or justifiable. But I am just going to neglect taking any position on it at all.
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No, I think it is simply semantics. True vs Valid. I wouldn't use valid to describe a premise. So, with that you are right. The premise is true though.

Manga: So is everybody claiming the premise "time iff change" is valid?
RandFan: I would claim that the premise is true.
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kurious_kathy said:
How about cuz all things are created by him and for him. God is the one thing that defines us and gives us purpose. We are here to give glory to God. He created us for fellowship with him and eachother. How's that for pinpointing it a bit.
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That's a 'because' answer which implies proof. We have just gone through a brazillion pages to'ing and fro'ing about proof and nobody has been successful. Faith is not proof, its just that, faith.

My question is WHY does there need to be a god.

It does nothing for anybody. Believers and non-believers alike are killed every day. Tornado survivors give thanks for being alive, whilst the 'believer' neighbour just lost 3 kids???

If nothing comes of it being there, then a deity is of no use to anybody.

For those who are concerned about the afterlife (worm food really), then wouldn't just living a good wholesome life ensure 'eternity' without all the nonsense?

We had our prime minister praying for rain on a prayer day. Two weeks later we had floods in parts of our country and people died. Everyone was delighted that the prayers had worked. Our prime minister was then on TV asking for prayers for the survivors. WHAT!!!

I mean if it can't even get the rain right (we only wanted a couple of inches, not the whole bloody ocean) of what use is it. Should the prayers have been: "please deity, can we have 3.5 inches of rain but only over the brown spots".

So once again i say WHY do we need a deity?
 
RandFan said:
No, I think it is simply semantics. True vs Valid. I wouldn't use valid to describe a premise. So, with that you are right. The premise is true though.
Manga: So is everybody claiming the premise "time iff change" is valid? RandFan: I would claim that the premise is true.
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Robin asked the question "So is everybody claiming the premise "time iff change" is valid?", not me.
 
PBTree said:
That's a 'because' answer which implies proof. We have just gone through a brazillion pages to'ing and fro'ing about proof and nobody has been successful. Faith is not proof, its just that, faith.

My question is WHY does there need to be a god.
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Science can give us some of the how things work, but only God completes us and answers the why's. Once we know him through faith we are complete and find purpose. People need purpose don't you agree?
 
Mangafranga said:
Robin asked the question "So is everybody claiming the premise "time iff change" is valid?", not me.
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I'm batting zero. Please feel free to put me on ignore.

Yes, you are correct. He did at that.

Mangafranga said:
I would never claim a premise is valid. If we are talking logic, then validity is a feature of arguments, not premises. I would have no problem with saying the premise is well formed, or coherent, or meaningful (as a premise). I don't have a position on its truth value.
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I was simply saying that unlike you, I would take a position on its truth value since it is a proposition.

Now, as to the validity, I wouldn't describe a premise as being valid or invalid.

So, to recap.
  • I claim the premise valid.
  • I take no position on it's validity.
Now, I'm off to see if there is a forum out there where I won't likely make so many mistakes and look like an idiot. This one looks promising.
 
Purpose emerges from the process of living, a quality like tolerance or kindness. 'Purposes' seem to have a similar imperfect nature, one we choose, change, and influence a great deal.

Science actually gives us a lot of the 'whys' too, but the thing that I think it is 'incomplete' without is a creative or artistic sense - an appreciation of beauty and wonder. A scientific and reasoning mind combined with heart is a happy path that creates its own purposes.
 
kurious_kathy said:
How about cuz all things are created by him and for him.
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That's right.

When a child dies of leukemia, god.
When a child dies of malaria, god.
When a child dies of parasites, god.
When a child dies from a tidal wave, god.

God likes the death of children. That's why he killed so many of them throughout the bible. Flood, Egyptian babies and children, Amalekites, etc., etc..

Nice god. It always makes me feel so warm and fuzzy to think of god as a mass murderer. He is btw, there's no argument about that.
 
kurious_kathy said:
...only God completes us and answers the why's.
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I didn't know that. I'm so glad I've found someone to answer my questions.

Why do children suffer and die?


Once we know him through faith we are complete and find purpose.
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Terrorists have their purpose given them by god.

People need purpose don't you agree?
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Life is purpose. Having and caring for a family is purpose. Contributing to society is purpose. Caring about others is purpose.

I don't need god to find purpose.
 
kurious_kathy said:
Science can give us some of the how things work, but only God completes us and answers the why's. Once we know him through faith we are complete and find purpose. People need purpose don't you agree?
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More faith. No proof, just faith.

So the answer to my WHY question is: Your deity gives us purpose.

Not much of a deity.

If you go to a Voodoo event, they claim they can kill your enemies and make the girl next door love you etc.. just for the price of a chicken. Much better than yours who just gives us purpose.

Purpose is not enough sorry, I still need to know WHY.
 
Don't worry, I am not pointing out any mistakes in this post. :)
RandFan said:
I was simply saying that unlike you, I would take a position on its truth value since it is a proposition.
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Just to be clear, what I meant was that I am not taking a position on which truth value it has (that is to say, I accept that it is either true or false).
RandFan said:
Now, I'm off to see if there is a forum out there where I won't likely make so many mistakes and look like an idiot. This one looks promising.
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:D
 
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